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Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part V

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:09 PM
  #651
gstommylee
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The Seattle market was never the issue as to why we don't have a team its always been the arena and/or owner.

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11-15-2012, 11:31 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by snovalleyhockeyfan View Post
And there's one other thing you're missing too, and this has been discussed before here in this thread, and that is the REGIONAL draw a Seattle team would generate. A Seattle team would likely draw fans in from Portland, Spokane, Boise, Anchorage, and points in between, not to mention all the fans from B.C. and Alberta who would travel down for games involving the Canadian teams.

And frankly, Seattle has a much better hockey culture now that it did 20-some years ago when they had the Memorial Cup here.
You really think people will travel from Portland, Spokane, Boise and Anchorage 41 times per year? You think someone will make the drive on a Wednesday night? Crazy talk.

Sure, some people will come to town for the Saturday night game but, 25 or 30 nights a year they need to rely on the local market. I hope they have enough interest but, why would people spend money on hockey when the NBA would be back in town?

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11-15-2012, 11:33 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
You really think people will travel from Portland, Spokane, Boise and Anchorage 41 times per year? You think someone will make the drive on a Wednesday night? Crazy talk.
Hey, if I had my passport already I'd drive to Vancouver to watch a juniors game lol

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11-15-2012, 11:34 PM
  #654
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I doubt very seriously that figured into Ogopogo's point of view. The Oilers moving was, as I said, NEVER going to happen and only the most alarmist of Chicken Little in Edmonton bought into Katz's little extortion scheme. Empty threats was all it was and I'm pretty sure the people in Edmonton knew it.


Katz has no intention of moving the Oilers to Seattle. If the man can't work out a deal for an arena, there is only one pot of gold he would have his eyes set on - Southern Ontario. That is the only market available that would be more profitable than Edmonton. Moving anywhere else would lose him millions.

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11-15-2012, 11:37 PM
  #655
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Katz has no intention of moving the Oilers to Seattle. If the man can't work out a deal for an arena, there is only one pot of gold he would have his eyes set on - Southern Ontario. That is the only market available that would be more profitable than Edmonton. Moving anywhere else would lose him millions.
That was a non-starter from the beginning. Rexall sells out and the tickets ain't cheap so there was no way the Oilers were going anywhere. Somewhat amusing people were falling for that scheisse.

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11-15-2012, 11:38 PM
  #656
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Hey, if I had my passport already I'd drive to Vancouver to watch a juniors game lol
Of course there are a few like you that would but, I am hard core and I have never driven the 3 hours to Calgary to see the Oilers play. It takes a special fan to make a trip of that distance and that would be on the weekend if they do it.

I don't see many people driving from Portland to Seattle for an NHL game on a Wednesday.

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11-15-2012, 11:41 PM
  #657
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Of course there are a few like you that would but, I am hard core and I have never driven the 3 hours to Calgary to see the Oilers play. It takes a special fan to make a trip of that distance and that would be on the weekend if they do it.

I don't see many people driving from Portland to Seattle for an NHL game on a Wednesday.
Oh hell, when the T-Birds play Portland at home we get fans from Portland driving up.

And I've told people: If the only hockey available was a bunch of dudes playing on a frozen pond I'd watch

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11-15-2012, 11:47 PM
  #658
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Oh hell, when the T-Birds play Portland at home we get fans from Portland driving up.

And I've told people: If the only hockey available was a bunch of dudes playing on a frozen pond I'd watch
You do make a good point. I have seen fans from Portland follow the Winterhawks some pretty significant distances for games. They do have a pretty passionate fan base. Is it enough to make the NHL work in Seattle? I hope so, as I said, I really like Seattle.

Seattle - prove me wrong!

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11-15-2012, 11:51 PM
  #659
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You do make a good point. I have seen fans from Portland follow the Winterhawks some pretty significant distances for games. They do have a pretty passionate fan base. Is it enough to make the NHL work in Seattle? I hope so, as I said, I really like Seattle.

Seattle - prove me wrong!
The sad thing is, by the time they DO get a team in Seattle I may well be back east on the Caps waiting list for season tickets

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11-16-2012, 05:45 AM
  #660
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Katz has no intention of moving the Oilers to Seattle. If the man can't work out a deal for an arena, there is only one pot of gold he would have his eyes set on - Southern Ontario. That is the only market available that would be more profitable than Edmonton. Moving anywhere else would lose him millions.
If Seattle gave him free use of the arena and he got to keep all the concessions from hockey. How much is that worth as opposed to having to layout 100 million or more for a new arena? It would take decades to get that 100 million back if he stayed in Edmonton.

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11-16-2012, 06:23 AM
  #661
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In Seattle, at best an NHL will be #3 or 4 in the market
It is like that in just about EVERY US market. Heck, the Rangers are #6 in NY behind the Giants, Jets, Yanks, Mets, and Knicks. Teams like the Red Wings and Flyers will jump to #2 only when the baseball and basketball teams are terrible. Pittsburgh you could say the Pens are #2. However, the Pirates have had a million straight losing seasons, AND that town is VERY band-wagon when it comes to the Penguins. The igloo was a ghost town in the time between Lemieux retiring and Crosby getting drafted. I remember being there for Rangers-Pens in 2002 and 2003. Was at a bar in Station Square the night before and people at the bar had no idea whom the Penguins were playing the next day. In reality, the Steelers are #1, #2, #3, #4, the Pens are #5 and and the Pirates a distant 6th.


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Old
11-16-2012, 06:53 AM
  #662
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
You really think people will travel from Portland, Spokane, Boise and Anchorage 41 times per year? You think someone will make the drive on a Wednesday night? Crazy talk.

Sure, some people will come to town for the Saturday night game but, 25 or 30 nights a year they need to rely on the local market. I hope they have enough interest but, why would people spend money on hockey when the NBA would be back in town?
True, but the thing is there's enough of a local market now that a team should have reasonable success. An NHL team would have to market the same way the Mariners do, except of course an NHL team would also have to win right away and show they're spending money on the on-the-field product, not on new DiamondVision screens that only add to the fan experience....

Not everyone in this town will be interested in, or welcome back, the NBA if/when they return; that's the group of people you attempt to capitalize on. Along with the small, but growing, core of hockey fans and hockey parents in this region. Back when the Memorial Cup was here, there was really only one rink locally; now, there's three or four AFAIK, including one owned by ex-NHL player Jamie Huscroft. And there are a number of youth leagues as well based out of these rinks.

And the travel distances are such that people will travel down from Vancouver, BC, or come up from Portland for weeknight games, especially if it's a big draw team playing (Detroit/Washington/Pittsburgh/NY Rangers/Canadian teams). A lot of fans travel north from Seattle to Vancouver for Canucks games, I wouldn't expect that to be different for the folks coming in from up north. Portland is only 2 1/2 hours from Seattle all on I-5, same for Vancouver.

Yes, Spokane, Anchorage and Boise, and perhaps the Tri-Cities as well, those are weekend deals, but again, if it's a big draw team, you might see people come from all that way especially if it may be the only time they'll see them all season.


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11-16-2012, 10:04 AM
  #663
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Originally Posted by snovalleyhockeyfan View Post
True, but the thing is there's enough of a local market now that a team should have reasonable success. An NHL team would have to market the same way the Mariners do, except of course an NHL team would also have to win right away and show they're spending money on the on-the-field product, not on new DiamondVision screens that only add to the fan experience....

Not everyone in this town will be interested in, or welcome back, the NBA if/when they return; that's the group of people you attempt to capitalize on. Along with the small, but growing, core of hockey fans and hockey parents in this region. Back when the Memorial Cup was here, there was really only one rink locally; now, there's three or four AFAIK, including one owned by ex-NHL player Jamie Huscroft. And there are a number of youth leagues as well based out of these rinks.

And the travel distances are such that people will travel down from Vancouver, BC, or come up from Portland for weeknight games, especially if it's a big draw team playing (Detroit/Washington/Pittsburgh/NY Rangers/Canadian teams). A lot of fans travel north from Seattle to Vancouver for Canucks games, I wouldn't expect that to be different for the folks coming in from up north. Portland is only 2 1/2 hours from Seattle all on I-5, same for Vancouver.

Yes, Spokane, Anchorage and Boise, and perhaps the Tri-Cities as well, those are weekend deals, but again, if it's a big draw team, you might see people come from all that way especially if it may be the only time they'll see them all season.
Funny story about Jamie Huscroft: I was a kid (13 or 14) when the Seattle Thunderbirds were in Kamloops for a game. I was hanging out down by the visitor's dressing room and Huscroft comes out. He was drafted by the Devils the year before and he saw I was wearing a NJ Devils hat. He asks me to borrow it - I give it to him and he disappears into the dressing room, I assume so he can show it off to the team. A few minutes later the trainer comes out and hands it back to me.

Nothing to do with hockey in Seattle but, you did mention Huscroft...

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11-16-2012, 10:08 AM
  #664
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If Seattle gave him free use of the arena and he got to keep all the concessions from hockey. How much is that worth as opposed to having to layout 100 million or more for a new arena? It would take decades to get that 100 million back if he stayed in Edmonton.
Because he would NEVER get that deal in Seattle. He wouldn't own the arena, he wouldn't get non-hockey revenue, and he wouldn't sell out at top dollar. He would be a tenant, losing money in an arena where he would never control revenues.

Katz is demanding - in Edmonton - all hockey and non-hockey related revenues (i.e. concerts etc) and he doesn't want to pay for arena maintenance nor pay a lease. All revenues with no expenses in a hockey-mad market that sells out all the time at top dollar. The Seattle offer would come nowhere close to that.

The reason NHL owners build new arenas is to maximize revenues. It is not to make a better venue for fans or because the old building is falling apart - it is to increase revenues. Katz wants out of Rexall Place because he doesn't control concessions, parking and non-hockey revenue. In the new building he would. In Seattle, he would never get all of that.

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11-16-2012, 12:59 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by snovalleyhockeyfan View Post
Not everyone in this town will be interested in, or welcome back, the NBA if/when they return; that's the group of people you attempt to capitalize on. Along with the small, but growing, core of hockey fans and hockey parents in this region. Back when the Memorial Cup was here, there was really only one rink locally; now, there's three or four AFAIK, including one owned by ex-NHL player Jamie Huscroft. And there are a number of youth leagues as well based out of these rinks.

And the travel distances are such that people will travel down from Vancouver, BC, or come up from Portland for weeknight games, especially if it's a big draw team playing (Detroit/Washington/Pittsburgh/NY Rangers/Canadian teams). A lot of fans travel north from Seattle to Vancouver for Canucks games, I wouldn't expect that to be different for the folks coming in from up north. Portland is only 2 1/2 hours from Seattle all on I-5, same for Vancouver.

Yes, Spokane, Anchorage and Boise, and perhaps the Tri-Cities as well, those are weekend deals, but again, if it's a big draw team, you might see people come from all that way especially if it may be the only time they'll see them all season.
In the 70 miles between Everett & Tacoma there are 13 ice sheets essentially used year round. That is not a lot compared to many other (Canadian) cities but it's a step especially if 20 years ago there was only 1. Seattle also has one of the largest adult hockey leagues in the US which incorporates most of these rinks.

In Seattle there already is a large amount of traveling fans for Seahawks, Mariners, & Husky games from Eastern Washington, Oregon & BC. Before & after Vancouver had the NBA grizzlies, I knew people who would travel to Seattle for Sonics games too. NHL would be similar.

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11-16-2012, 01:32 PM
  #666
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boom! We have concept drawings of the arena.

http://www.king5.com/news/arena/Firs...179694741.html

http://media.king5.com/images/SODO_A...t_design_h.jpg

Concept of what it would look like for hockey.
These are just prototypes not final.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/113525886/...-early-designs

design presentation for the early design review meeting at the end month


Last edited by gstommylee: 11-16-2012 at 01:51 PM.
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11-16-2012, 02:31 PM
  #667
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In the 70 miles between Everett & Tacoma there are 13 ice sheets essentially used year round. That is not a lot compared to many other (Canadian) cities but it's a step especially if 20 years ago there was only 1. Seattle also has one of the largest adult hockey leagues in the US which incorporates most of these rinks.

In Seattle there already is a large amount of traveling fans for Seahawks, Mariners, & Husky games from Eastern Washington, Oregon & BC. Before & after Vancouver had the NBA grizzlies, I knew people who would travel to Seattle for Sonics games too. NHL would be similar.
Thanks for that info. I did not realize there were 13 rinks in the Puget Sound. I was only familiar with Sno-King, the Kent Valley rink, and Huscroft's deal, Castle Ice out towards Liberty High School east of Renton. Where are the others all located?

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11-16-2012, 02:32 PM
  #668
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Funny story about Jamie Huscroft: I was a kid (13 or 14) when the Seattle Thunderbirds were in Kamloops for a game. I was hanging out down by the visitor's dressing room and Huscroft comes out. He was drafted by the Devils the year before and he saw I was wearing a NJ Devils hat. He asks me to borrow it - I give it to him and he disappears into the dressing room, I assume so he can show it off to the team. A few minutes later the trainer comes out and hands it back to me.

Nothing to do with hockey in Seattle but, you did mention Huscroft...
Did he autograph the hat?

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11-16-2012, 02:40 PM
  #669
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Thanks for that info. I did not realize there were 13 rinks in the Puget Sound. I was only familiar with Sno-King, the Kent Valley rink, and Huscroft's deal, Castle Ice out towards Liberty High School east of Renton. Where are the others all located?
Here's one:

http://www.rinktime.com/skating_rink..._tacoma_wa.cfm

Puget Sound Hockey Center in Tacoma

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11-16-2012, 02:45 PM
  #670
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Thanks for that info. I did not realize there were 13 rinks in the Puget Sound. I was only familiar with Sno-King, the Kent Valley rink, and Huscroft's deal, Castle Ice out towards Liberty High School east of Renton. Where are the others all located?
Here's another:

http://www.rinktime.com/skating_rink..._tacoma_wa.cfm

Sprinker Rec Center & Ice Rink in Spanaway

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11-16-2012, 02:48 PM
  #671
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Did he autograph the hat?
Actually, no he didn't. Probably didn't have a pen in his jockstrap. LOL

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11-16-2012, 02:49 PM
  #672
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Because he would NEVER get that deal in Seattle. He wouldn't own the arena, he wouldn't get non-hockey revenue, and he wouldn't sell out at top dollar. He would be a tenant, losing money in an arena where he would never control revenues.

Katz is demanding - in Edmonton - all hockey and non-hockey related revenues (i.e. concerts etc) and he doesn't want to pay for arena maintenance nor pay a lease. All revenues with no expenses in a hockey-mad market that sells out all the time at top dollar. The Seattle offer would come nowhere close to that.

The reason NHL owners build new arenas is to maximize revenues. It is not to make a better venue for fans or because the old building is falling apart - it is to increase revenues. Katz wants out of Rexall Place because he doesn't control concessions, parking and non-hockey revenue. In the new building he would. In Seattle, he would never get all of that.
We don't know that. He would be the owner of the team. 50 percent of the Seattle arena, because hansen will need partners.

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11-16-2012, 04:18 PM
  #673
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Originally Posted by snovalleyhockeyfan View Post
Thanks for that info. I did not realize there were 13 rinks in the Puget Sound. I was only familiar with Sno-King, the Kent Valley rink, and Huscroft's deal, Castle Ice out towards Liberty High School east of Renton. Where are the others all located?
Two more rinks of note in North Puget Sound/Snohomish County:

Comcast Community Ice Rink, which is part of the Comcast Arena at Everett facility.

Lynnwood Ice Center

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11-16-2012, 05:13 PM
  #674
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Here's another:

http://www.rinktime.com/skating_rink..._tacoma_wa.cfm

Sprinker Rec Center & Ice Rink in Spanaway
I forgot about Sprinker, but do they have organized youth hockey based out of there? I don't know if they do; I thought it was more for figure skating, etc.

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11-16-2012, 05:15 PM
  #675
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And by the way to those of you putting info out about local rinks, thank you for giving me a little new knowledge. And certainly bolstering the case for why this market should be able to support the NHL when it makes its way here.

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