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AAA 2012 Draft

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Old
11-16-2012, 05:20 PM
  #526
Hedberg
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Fort Saskatchewan selects C Jim McFadden


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11-16-2012, 05:32 PM
  #527
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The St.John's Monsters select LW/C Sergei Nemchinov



Nemchinov will play a defensive role for my team on the 3rd line with Boschman and Laperriere.

Next has been pmed.

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11-16-2012, 05:41 PM
  #528
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The steelers selects a true grinder for our 4th line, Darren McCarty, RW



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11-16-2012, 05:50 PM
  #529
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Eisbaren Berlin selects RW Mark Hunter



and D Zbynek Michalek, who has led his team in ES TOI 5 times, been top 3 in SH TOI 7 times(led 4 times, 2nd twice, 3rd once), and led his team in overall TOI 4 times despite receiving very little PP time. He was the #1 defenseman in overall, ES, and SH TOI when Phoenix was the 3rd best team defensively in the NHL in 09-10. He has also placed top 34 in blocked shots in every one of his full NHL seasons, leading the league in 08-09.


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11-16-2012, 06:04 PM
  #530
Mike Farkas
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Pretty sizeable chunk of my watchlist has crumbled into the ravaging sea of opposition in the last little bit here.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:12 PM
  #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx
On the Oilers checking line. We all know hw much they cared about defense. This is getting pretty tiresome. Burrows was an energy player his first two seasons, then hes paired with Kesler and suddenly becomes a defensive stalwart and when he gets on Sedins line he becomes an offensive guy.

Do you honestly not see the pattern? He's speed and physicallity with a bit of goalscoring touch.
No, I don’t see the pattern. Even before earning a shot with the Sedins, he was more valuable than McClelland ever was.

As you know, McClelland didn’t play on Edmonton his entire career, so he had a chance to be more important to other teams.

Quote:
No its not in favour for Burrows as he is usually pretty free on the ice (something which Sedins former partners also were) Sedins draw men away from Burrows.
With that said, it’s sure pretty interesting how many goals he scores that aren’t assisted on by either one of them.

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Yes it promotes the value of any glue guy. What the point is? I thought that was pretty obvious. He is 20-30% better with the Sedins and in hockey thats quite a lot (in one season it was even an 80% boost).
LOL! You might want to read that link that you provided to me again. The evidence is proving that the glue guys (including Burrows) are improving the production of the smaller, softer players (like the Sedins)

Here it is again:

http://hockeyanalysis.com/2012/02/18...ss-with-skill/

This year (glue guy) has improved their offensive production between 20 and 25% and it isn’t because (glue guy) is an elite offensive player relative to those three guys. He only has 12 goals and 28 points in 54 games this year and is Tampa’s 6th leading scorer…

…I have always been interesting in exploring the optimal way to build a team and so this prompted me to look a little deeper to see if mixing in some toughness with more pure skill players makes the skill players better. So, here are a few more examples that I found interesting…

…the big strong wingers made their smaller skilled linemates (particularly the centermen) better offensive performers and while most of the players I looked at above are quality players no one will really call them elite offensive starts that can carry an offense. They are at best secondary top line players


That "80%" number you threw out and called "a lot" (which it is) helps Burrows' case just as much as you thought it was hurting it, because it's actually saying the complete polar opposite of what you thought it was.

AHA! And this explains why HockeyAnalysis was in this thread! He saw that his blog was being quoted here. (heh, that’s what I’d do too, if I had a hockey blog)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Sometimes I laugh at the things people manage to say.
So… you’re not interested in a discussion, then?

Look, I don’t expect you to say, “OK, he wasn’t a good pick”, but I’m not talking gobbledegook here. Players with a demonstrated ability to generate their own offense more often would be better picks than those without. Context matters, no?

And if you’d actually explain what’s so funny instead of being so smug about it, then we might be able to come to more of an understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
I had mis-labeled the 2011 playoffs as the 2012 playoffs. I'll fix that.

The 2012 regular season was the on I posted earlier, 13 of 28 unassisted by a Sedin
Oh, right, gotcha.

So that’s 54/133 not assisted by a Sedin, leaving 59% that were.

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Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Fort Saskatchewan selects C Jim McFadden

Good offensive pick. Best pre-expansion center, from what I can see.

Does he do anything else other than score? If so, he’s an even better pick than I thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
The steelers selects a true grinder for our 4th line, Darren McCarty, RW




Ideal 4th line player for this draft. He was our #1 choice… maybe we should have taken him by now.

Actually, maybe we wanted Lapointe a little bit more, but we didn’t expect Lapointe to last until we took 4th lines.

I’m thinking Lapointe is the better and more valuable player overall; would anyone disagree?

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11-16-2012, 06:29 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
So… you’re not interested in a discussion, then?
I have found that the discussions here generally consist of talking past each other.

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Look, I don’t expect you to say, “OK, he wasn’t a good pick”, but I’m not talking gobbledegook here.
You are, however, ignoring whatever defense I make of the pick. So it really doesn't matter what I say, or what sources I cite.

We could have just stopped at "opinions vary".

Quote:
Players with a demonstrated ability to generate their own offense more often would be better picks than those without.
Of course, if the player isn't being asked to generate his own offense -- if he is being put specifically into a position of having the playmaking done for him and only needing to follow through on his specialty skill set -- then his playmaking really doesn't matter much, does it?

But wait... that's bringing context into the equation.

But I don't expect you to relent. You're going to keep bagging on Young and King for the rest of the draft. I get it.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:30 PM
  #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post


Ideal 4th line player for this draft. He was our #1 choice… maybe we should have taken him by now.

Actually, maybe we wanted Lapointe a little bit more, but we didn’t expect Lapointe to last until we took 4th lines.

I’m thinking Lapointe is the better and more valuable player overall; would anyone disagree?
You wanted him more than I did

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11-16-2012, 06:35 PM
  #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
No, I don’t see the pattern. Even before earning a shot with the Sedins, he was more valuable than McClelland ever was.

As you know, McClelland didn’t play on Edmonton his entire career, so he had a chance to be more important to other teams.
Right but as you know it was in Edmonton he was used on a checking line while the dead wigns tried to reduce him to a goon again but he wasnt a goon. He was actually quite adept at positioning and getting people off the puck. He is used on a line with Legwand and Irvine who are a bit more skilled in other departments so Im not to worried.



With that said, it’s sure pretty interesting how many goals he scores that aren’t assisted on by either one of them.



Quote:
LOL! You might want to read that link that you provided to me again. The evidence is proving that the glue guys (including Burrows) are improving the production of the smaller, softer players (like the Sedins)

Here it is again:

http://hockeyanalysis.com/2012/02/18...ss-with-skill/

This year (glue guy) has improved their offensive production between 20 and 25% and it isn’t because (glue guy) is an elite offensive player relative to those three guys. He only has 12 goals and 28 points in 54 games this year and is Tampa’s 6th leading scorer…

…I have always been interesting in exploring the optimal way to build a team and so this prompted me to look a little deeper to see if mixing in some toughness with more pure skill players makes the skill players better. So, here are a few more examples that I found interesting…

…the big strong wingers made their smaller skilled linemates (particularly the centermen) better offensive performers and while most of the players I looked at above are quality players no one will really call them elite offensive starts that can carry an offense. They are at best secondary top line players


That "80%" number you threw out and called "a lot" (which it is) helps Burrows' case just as much as you thought it was hurting it, because it's actually saying the complete polar opposite of what you thought it was.

AHA! And this explains why HockeyAnalysis was in this thread! He saw that his blog was being quoted here. (heh, that’s what I’d do too, if I had a hockey blog)
Ofcourse the glue guy helps the skilled players too otherwize it wouldnt make sense to put them on a line, right? Have I ever written in the thread that Burrows is bad? No. Actually it all started with you slagging off some players while proclaiming that Burrows is the best at everything.

The fact is that you seem to believe that a glue guy outscoring his playmaker center/linemates is something unusual when it isnt and several undrafted players have done it, some of which wont even get drafted.

It's not entirely relevant that he has done it four times (glue guys usually move on to better contracts with other teams or get pushed down the pecking order by free agent signings).

Quote:
Ideal 4th line player for this draft. He was our #1 choice… maybe we should have taken him by now.

Actually, maybe we wanted Lapointe a little bit more, but we didn’t expect Lapointe to last until we took 4th lines.

I’m thinking Lapointe is the better and more valuable player overall; would anyone disagree?
Really depends, McCarty brings a different skillset than Lapointe. Lapointe was probably better as top-6 glue guy while I think McCarty were better as a physical presence on a mid-6 line. I also think that McCarty brought more leadership to the table than Lapointe did. Depending on who you already have on your team I doubt you could go wrong with either of them.

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11-16-2012, 06:43 PM
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Of course, if the player isn't being asked to generate his own offense -- if he is being put specifically into a position of having the playmaking done for him and only needing to follow through on his specialty skill set -- then his playmaking really doesn't matter much, does it?

But wait... that's bringing context into the equation.
You are correct that Derek King is getting the help he needs with Raleigh as his center. The problem is that he simlpy was not among the best available players. It's not that he isn't in a spot where he will be an effective player. You just could have done so much better. His offesive abilities rank pretty evenly with many of the glue guys that seventies and I have targetted for our 4th line.

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11-16-2012, 07:15 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Does he do anything else other than score? If so, he’s an even better pick than I thought.
I'm looking into it. I find that he played with Jimmy Peters and Marty Pavelich quite intriguing.

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11-16-2012, 07:17 PM
  #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
You are correct that Derek King is getting the help he needs with Raleigh as his center. The problem is that he simlpy was not among the best available players. It's not that he isn't in a spot where he will be an effective player. You just could have done so much better. His offesive abilities rank pretty evenly with many of the glue guys that seventies and I have targetted for our 4th line.
Of course they do. What was I thinking? Now your 4th line glue guys are going to outscore my first line skill players.

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11-16-2012, 07:25 PM
  #538
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who is on the clock?

I believe im up in an hour ans 10 mins?
some one corect me if im wrong... My guys are dropping like flys here and i dont wanna miss out again.. lol

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11-16-2012, 07:34 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Of course they do. What was I thinking? Now your 4th line glue guys are going to outscore my first line skill players.
Being on our 4th line, they won't score as much as a 1st line Derek King. If, however, you put them in his spot, they'd score as much or more than him while providing a lot better overall game.

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11-16-2012, 07:35 PM
  #540
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who is on the clock?
That would be me.

The Macon Whoopee select Anson Carter, RW



Carter is excellent at proving why Alex Burrows is just like any other scrub who plays with the Sedins. That makes him an excellent pick at this point.

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11-16-2012, 07:45 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post

The Macon Whoopee select Anson Carter, RW



Carter is excellent at proving why Alex Burrows is just like any other scrub who plays with the Sedins. That makes him an excellent pick at this point.
Carter and Burrows don't even have remotely similar styles of offensive play. Carter pretty much just banged in goals at the side of the net on one timers while Burrows is much more dynamic.

All but one of Carter's 33 goals were assisted by at least one Sedin. Also, 15 of them were on the PP

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11-16-2012, 07:47 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Carter is excellent at proving why Alex Burrows is just like any other scrub who plays with the Sedins. That makes him an excellent pick at this point.
Why does Carter having his 3rd best offesive season with the Sedins prove Burrows sucks?

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11-16-2012, 07:57 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Why does Carter having his 3rd best offesive season with the Sedins prove Burrows sucks?
Burrows needs the Sedins more than Carter did.... solid point in Carter's favor.

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11-16-2012, 07:58 PM
  #544
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Ok The Barracudas are proud to select a defensive Gem to play along side Plekanec and Hecht on my 3rd line. A career nhl +- of +118 (9 seasons) C/RW Ric Seiling.

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11-16-2012, 08:06 PM
  #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Burrows needs the Sedins more than Carter did.... solid point in Carter's favor.
I would disagree. Like it was siad all but one of Caters 33 goals playing with the Sisters was not assisted by one. Burrows does score with or with out them, I think it was 61% of his goals assisted by a Sedin and it was 90 something % for Carter.

Burrows already has better career highs and his plus minus is stellar compared to Carter.

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11-16-2012, 08:10 PM
  #546
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Please, no "joke/fake/spite/make-a-stupid-point" picks. Don't make a mockery of the draft by selecting players who do nothing for your team and don't deserve to be selected because your scales are tipped.

You can make a new selection; I am sure everyone else would be fine with that, as they probably understood the purpose of the pick as well.

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11-16-2012, 08:10 PM
  #547
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Burrows needs the Sedins more than Carter did.... solid point in Carter's favor.
Carter's offensive peak is just as good as King's, so you won't see me trashing Carter.


The point you tried (and failed) to make was that the Sedins boost the offensive production of their wingers. Carter produced at the same level multiple times before he joined the Brother Line. Same goes for Taylor Pyatt.

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11-16-2012, 08:33 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Please, no "joke/fake/spite/make-a-stupid-point" picks. Don't make a mockery of the draft by selecting players who do nothing for your team and don't deserve to be selected because your scales are tipped.

You can make a new selection; I am sure everyone else would be fine with that, as they probably understood the purpose of the pick as well.
I take it this was directed to the Carter pick?...

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11-16-2012, 08:37 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Please, no "joke/fake/spite/make-a-stupid-point" picks. Don't make a mockery of the draft by selecting players who do nothing for your team and don't deserve to be selected because your scales are tipped.

You can make a new selection; I am sure everyone else would be fine with that, as they probably understood the purpose of the pick as well.
I have no interest in another pick. Carter's peak is as good as King's, which means he was merely picked a little too early.


Carry on.

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11-16-2012, 09:41 PM
  #550
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Not to pile on, but Anson Carter is not the same as Burrows at all. Carter was pretty soft as I recall and an absolute zero defensively. Very one-dimensional player and he wasn't even that good at that dimension (minus the year the Sedin's made him look competent). Right-handed shooting, 30-goal winger and out of the NHL for good 12 months later in his early 30's...

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