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Everybody's talking at me; I don't hear a word they're saying (CBA/Lockout XXIX)

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:41 PM
  #476
rdawg1234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I always thought it was the NHLPA that kept delaying?
It was, NHL wanted to negotiate starting a year before deal expired, turn down requests to talk throughout the season. Which is ironic when they say they want to play and make a deal, all last year they refused to talk while they played.

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11-16-2012, 06:42 PM
  #477
CerebralGenesis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I always thought it was the NHLPA that kept delaying?
You use past tense. You forgot the present and future too.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:47 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
He's obviously trying to endear himself to alot of people and deflect criticism, but atleast he's a little more sincere about it than the rest of his peers.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:52 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by AirheadPete View Post
Boyle has been one of the few levelheaded ones throughout this process. Good on.him.
Guess you weren't listening to him at the start of this lockout. He was toiling the nhlpa line, saying it isnt fair, blah balh blah

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:56 PM
  #480
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Apparently, Wayne Simmons has left his Czech League team.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl--wa...14-221918.html

I think it's an interesting example of yet another perk of being an NHL player for the clear majority of the league who are native North American born English-speakers. They get to live and work in an environment where they're culturally comfortable, have no language barriers, and are not visibly outsiders.

The racism aspect of this story has been discussed extensively, but the part I find interesting is the cultural isolation which Simmons must have felt. He didn't even understand that people were taunting him. And then, it was compounded by the fact that he expected his teammates to behave a certain way based on his cultural expectations (tell him to his face that he was the subject of racist taunts), but instead they behaved in a way that struck him as culturally perplexing (not confronting the issue out of a sense of shame or embarrassment and pretending that it isn't happening)

So playing in European leagues might not be the perfect solution for NHL players. Go all across the globe and get paid for 1/4 of your usual salary, in a place where you're an outsider, don't speak the language, aren't used to the culture, have to uproot your family, etc., etc. But hey, we're not taking a penny less than 57%.

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11-16-2012, 06:59 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Yes, but well run teams and their fans suffer. You can close the cap circumvention loophole without making it impossible for teams to sign stars long-term.
So what would you propose to the league to close the loopholes?

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:02 PM
  #482
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http://www.startribune.com/sports/wi.../57299562.html

Here's some insight into the NHLPA going to "50/50" using Fehr's fuzzy math.

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11-16-2012, 07:03 PM
  #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
So what would you propose to the league to close the loopholes?
Cap hit should stick with the team for the duration and they should limit the money up front. It'll make teams think twice about who gets these deals and how long they're willing to gamble on a player.

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11-16-2012, 07:04 PM
  #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
So what would you propose to the league to close the loopholes?
I actually had this different idea(just came up with it so it's a little rough)

allow for up to 20% variance under age 30, 10% age 30-35 but no more than 5% after age 35.

That way the younger stars can get paid more in early years but not kill the cap but softening it in the later years. I know it's rough but it makes it so certain players arent taing up 12 million of the cap I suppose.

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11-16-2012, 07:05 PM
  #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
The 5 year limit isn't about helping the Preds, it's about saving the Islanders etc from themselves.
No, the 5 year limit (that could probably be pushed back to 7 with this little thing called negotiations) is for insurance.

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11-16-2012, 07:05 PM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Cap hit should stick with the team for the duration and they should limit the money up front. It'll make teams think twice about who gets these deals and how long they're willing to gamble on a player.
Making teams think twice before circumventing the cap does not make it so they can't circumvent the cap.

Owners reject this vague proposal.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:07 PM
  #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I always thought it was the NHLPA that kept delaying?
It has been...they are too busy selling koolaid...

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:08 PM
  #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kings4thecup View Post
http://www.startribune.com/sports/wi.../57299562.html

Here's some insight into the NHLPA going to "50/50" using Fehr's fuzzy math.
wow, so basically it's pay us for a full season+a small raise vs. getting 50% plus a little on top.

players are being unreasonable here expected 1.8b+ for a 50-60 game season.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:10 PM
  #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kings4thecup View Post
http://www.startribune.com/sports/wi.../57299562.html

Here's some insight into the NHLPA going to "50/50" using Fehr's fuzzy math.
It's probably taking the NHLPA a while to respond to it because they are trying to figure out how to make 2+2=1

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:12 PM
  #490
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Finally a journalist that's willing to look at the economics in detail. Thank you, Russo.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:12 PM
  #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
The 5 year limit isn't about helping the Preds, it's about saving the Islanders etc from themselves.
Just no. It's about insurance. We have the numbers. Crosby needs $2.4mil/season to insure his contract. Under 7 years the league has a discounted policy that covers teams for $1mil/year. After 7 years, the team cannot use that policy and must secure private insurance or self-insure. The premium is related to the total value of the contract if you follow what has been happening to players going overseas. If they continue the long contracts, premiums will be paid where the money goes neither to the players nor to the owners. It is money lost to both sides.

I agree that variance is about cap circumvention, but years is both circumvention AND insurance.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:13 PM
  #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slads View Post
It's probably taking the NHLPA a while to respond to it because they are trying to figure out how to make 2+2=1

Looking at the thread title and your AV, I can't stop singing: "Just driving 'round in Jon Voight's car".

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:13 PM
  #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kings4thecup View Post
http://www.startribune.com/sports/wi.../57299562.html

Here's some insight into the NHLPA going to "50/50" using Fehr's fuzzy math.
So that's what Fehr meant when he said basing framework around a full year?

Someone with more time, run the numbers with 7%, I bet they'd get to 50-50. That's how/why the players say they have gotten to 50/50.

I think there is a good chance these charts that Russo published blow up. Could be a turning point as far as the media/casual fans perceive the situation.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:13 PM
  #494
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Just like in 2004, after the first wave of players defecting to Europe... we're now seeing the first wave of players coming right back home once they realize just how horrible playing 2nd tier hockey in front of 3000 people a night who don't speak any English really is... not to mention having to eat strange food and sleep in the roach motel without any of their NHL staff members to wait on them hand and foot. What's the per diem in Prague?

Simmonds, Stewart, and Kane have all quit... and they won't be the last.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:14 PM
  #495
rdawg1234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slads View Post
It's probably taking the NHLPA a while to respond to it because they are trying to figure out how to make 2+2=1
Seriously though, any Pro-NHLPA poster here wanna defend the PA's position on this?

Pay us for a full-year's work when we only play 50 games or so?

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:16 PM
  #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yog S'loth View Post
Just like in 2004, after the first wave of players defecting to Europe... we're now seeing the first wave of players coming right back home once they realize just how horrible playing 2nd tier hockey in front of 3000 people a night who don't speak any English really is... not to mention having to eat strange food and sleep in the roach motel without any of their NHL staff members to wait on them hand and foot. What's the per diem in Prague?

Simmonds, Stewart, and Kane have all quit... and they won't be the last.
No North American player wants to play in those leagues for an extended period of time, a season or half-season sure to keep in shape, but you're going from a hockey-loving culture to a culture that doesn't even speak your language.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:17 PM
  #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
Looking at the thread title and your AV, I can't stop singing: "Just driving 'round in Jon Voight's car".
I didn't even think of it...haha


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Old
11-16-2012, 07:19 PM
  #498
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Per Martin Maguire on 98.5FM in Montreal, the players training at the Bell Complex are frustrated with how things are going. Many players are trying to bring the two sides back to the negociating table.

Bettman asking for the moratorium completely crushed the morale of many players.

Fehr is apparently telling players that if they want to go any further, it's going to hurt them.

Latendresse says: "It's like, we're always telling ourselves, let's wait two weeks and see what they add to the deal, and two weeks later, we're like "Crap, we should have taken that deal from two weeks ago..."

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:20 PM
  #499
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Candor and strong opinion are always welcome, however, Ian White calling Gary Bettman an "idiot" is disrespectful and requires an apology.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:22 PM
  #500
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I didn't know Darren Dreger was Ian White's mother. She raised a hell of a hockey player.

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