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Everybody's talking at me; I don't hear a word they're saying (CBA/Lockout XXIX)

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:42 PM
  #526
KaylaJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M A K A V E L I View Post
Youtube video of White's comments
Is he basically blaming Bettman for the sunbelt teams?



Also, Prust responded to Dredger:
@DarrenDreger what gary bettman is doing is disrespectful n deserves n apology

Dredger back at him: @BrandonPrust8. Would you call your owner an idiot? Of course not, however Bettman works for the owners. I get emotion....not disrespect.



And truthfully like someone before noted until they can quit the name calling and build trust, not only are we screwed now, but where does it end in the future?

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11-16-2012, 06:43 PM
  #527
Erik Estrada
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For every Latendresse lukewarm comments, you have 20 very aggressive pro-PA player comments... Ian White got some play this week, but I've heard much worse from other players. Even though these comments come from PA members and sometimes from one of the player reps on the PA Executive Board, they wouldn't pass the filters on this board...

So to get a full appreciation of where the players stand as a whole on the talks it's only possible by reading lots of player tweets. It's not pretty.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:45 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Players have been free to speak this entire time, yet this is somehow newsworthy.
Would you want to be the first guy to step out in the open in the middle of the firefight?

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11-16-2012, 06:49 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
Is he basically blaming Bettman for the sunbelt teams?
That's part of the reasoning. It's obvious who the struggling teams are. The other thing is that Bettman has been the common denominator in all 3 lockouts.

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11-16-2012, 06:50 PM
  #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
When guys like Latendresse are cracking, it doesn't matter to the PA. Let me know when a high profile player cracks.
High profile players can afford to lose a season... mid range players on short deals are the ones that get screwed.

Edit:
Hey Dan Boyle put it correctly:
Quote:
The lost pay “might affect certain guys. Again, at this point in my career, that’s not affecting me as much as a younger guy or a guy in a different position. It’s not a paycheck thing,” Boyle repeated.

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11-16-2012, 06:51 PM
  #531
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It's funny. How long would Ian White's NHL career be if not for the sunbelt expansions?

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11-16-2012, 06:52 PM
  #532
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at least we will know when the next lockout comes if they ever sign a deal.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:52 PM
  #533
Powdered Toast Man
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Originally Posted by wilty00 View Post
Would you want to be the first guy to step out in the open in the middle of the firefight?
If I disagreed with the position my union was taking and there was no real means for said union to punish me for speaking off message, I'd speak my mind.

I highly doubt the players are under any sort of legitimate duress as to what they can and can not say to the media. I imagine they have been coached, that's it.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:54 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by M A K A V E L I View Post
That's part of the reasoning. It's obvious who the struggling teams are. The other thing is that Bettman has been the common denominator in all 3 lockouts.
He forgets that Bettman is the one who has been in charge when there have been many more jobs created for people like himself, and that the average wage for every one of those workers has increased to well over $2 million. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

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11-16-2012, 06:54 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
If I disagreed with the position my union was taking and there was no real means for said union to punish me for speaking off message, I'd speak my mind.

I highly doubt the players are under any sort of legitimate duress as to what they can and can not say to the media. I imagine they have been coached, that's it.
You're very much discounting the dynamics of a union, especially if that union is as unified as The NHLPA talking heads are trying to claim.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:58 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
You're very much discounting the dynamics of a union, especially if that union is as unified as The NHLPA talking heads are trying to claim.
What could they possibly do to you? Beat you up? Murder you?

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11-16-2012, 06:58 PM
  #537
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You would think if so many players hate Bettman, and are standing on principle in this CBA negotiation, that they wouldn't play in a league headed by Bettman. Yet the players keep taking the money to play in the NHL.

I hate what you've done to the league and the PA in 20 years, but, I will take the millions of dollars to be associated with you. More money is like winning; it cures all.

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11-16-2012, 06:59 PM
  #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M A K A V E L I View Post
Fehr would be wise to place a gag order on some of these buffoons. Sure Ian, Der Bettman handpicks where teams will play in, not ownership groups or the Board of Governors who have a say in the matter.

It's comical that he suggests that Bettman has ruined the sport when this imbecile's salary has gone nowhere but up since he joined the NHL, as has the average salary in the NHL under a salary cap, a system that these fools at the PA thought would circumvent their earning potential.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:00 PM
  #539
Powdered Toast Man
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The salary cap does artificially restrict the players earning potential. Prior to the cap the players took home roughly 70% of all revenues, which is most certainly a tad silly, none the less even 57% is significantly less than that.

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11-16-2012, 07:00 PM
  #540
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Weve made a proposal about the back-diving contracts. Weve made a proposal on not capping the minor league guys. Were trying to make things work, but the deal isnt good enough yet, said Thornton. I was in the room when Don [Fehr] was trying to get a deal done. I cant give too much away, but Ive been on the inside and listened to him talk to the negotiating committee, the experts on the [NHLPA] staff about revenue sharing and player contract rights.
http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...23&feedID=5364

The NHL makes it sound like the NHLPA is refusing to discuss these topics.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:01 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
What could they possibly do to you? Beat you up? Murder you?
How a out the fact that you're speaking out against most of your peers, peers that you're going to have to continue to work with, play on the same team with, etc. Not many players will want to speak up and be the cause for ownership seeing dissent, weakness in the union.

It's the same in all union situations. Members always fear some sort of retribution for anything that can be seeing as going against the union.

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11-16-2012, 07:01 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I think the NHL is worried about the information that would come out if they went to arbitraiton.
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
What information would that be? And why would anything in mediation be made public?
Arbitration and mediation are 2 completely different things. Neither side will ever agree to arbitration as they wouldn't want to lose control. Mediation sounds like a pretty good idea to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
When guys like Latendresse are cracking, it doesn't matter to the PA. Let me know when a high profile player cracks.
The high profile guys are the only ones that can still hope to benifit from what is still on the table. Everyone else is just losing paychecks. Maybe guys like Lattendresse are starting to realize this.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:02 PM
  #543
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I'd argue that the structure the league has built is flawed.
Revenues rising is great but the system is to blame if over half the teams are losing money and thats not the players fault. Rising salaries isn't the players fault either.

As everyone points out players aren't economic majors whereas the league and the billionaires are supposed to be. It's the reason they get so pissed when the league keeps coming back to them to fix problems. It's the reason Kelly was ousted for guy like Fehr.

The players may cut their loses at some point. They know the history. They know the league has the hammer and they know what awaits them. But they won't go down without expressing thier concerns to some degree.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:04 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Making teams think twice before circumventing the cap does not make it so they can't circumvent the cap.
If you have to use the full extent of the contract against your cap I fail to see how it's cap circumvention. If you're worried about teams deferring money on 20 year deals then go for a limit but 5 isn't reasonable.


Last edited by Scurr: 11-16-2012 at 07:11 PM.
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Old
11-16-2012, 07:06 PM
  #545
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Quote:
the players training at the Bell Complex are frustrated
Hilarious. Why aren't they paying for ice time?

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:06 PM
  #546
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Just no. It's about insurance. We have the numbers. Crosby needs $2.4mil/season to insure his contract. Under 7 years the league has a discounted policy that covers teams for $1mil/year. After 7 years, the team cannot use that policy and must secure private insurance or self-insure. The premium is related to the total value of the contract if you follow what has been happening to players going overseas. If they continue the long contracts, premiums will be paid where the money goes neither to the players nor to the owners. It is money lost to both sides.

I agree that variance is about cap circumvention, but years is both circumvention AND insurance.
So then go for 7 years? Or work it out with the Union. Like I said, going from unlimited to 5 years is a huge concession by the players and not the only way to fix these problems, or necessarily good for the clubs.


Last edited by Scurr: 11-16-2012 at 07:12 PM.
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Old
11-16-2012, 07:07 PM
  #547
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Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
I'd argue that the structure the league has built is flawed.
Revenues rising is great but the system is to blame if over half the teams are losing money and thats not the players fault. Rising salaries isn't the players fault either.

As everyone points out players aren't economic majors whereas the league and the billionaires are supposed to be. It's the reason they get so pissed when the league keeps coming back to them to fix problems. It's the reason Kelly was ousted for guy like Fehr.

The players may cut their loses at some point. They know the history. They know the league has the hammer and they know what awaits them. But they won't go down without expressing thier concerns to some degree.
That makes perfect sense, and you can bet the location of franchises that are struggling are a major issue with the league and the owners, but they will never go public with it........no different when someone in the media calls out a goalie for a loss, and the team denies it and says they lost the game in front of him...never go public and bury him...

All of this BS has been too much about egos and winning...both Fehr and Bettman better be gone before the next CBA comes in...

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:08 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
The salary cap does artificially restrict the players earning potential. Prior to the cap the players took home roughly 70% of all revenues, which is most certainly a tad silly, none the less even 57% is significantly less than that.
So the question for operations is that if more teams make more money are players better or worse off?

If teams collapsed under the players making 62% instead of 57% and there's less jobs, less potential to earn... less competition which in-veritably leads to less revenue are the players better off?

I would point to the last 7 years and say... well no.

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11-16-2012, 07:08 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by AlienLanes82 View Post
Hilarious. Why aren't they paying for ice time?
No money coming in?

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:09 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
So then go for 7 years? Or work it out with the Union. Like I said, going from unlimited to 5 years is a huge concession by the players and not the only way to fix these problems.
And I doubt the deal, when it is reached will be for 5 years. 5 years is simply the NBA model. I'm fairly confident the NHL will budge on its stances on contracting rights once the NHLPA budged on its delinked proposals.

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