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Around the League 2012-12 I: Gary and Donald sitting in a tree

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:43 PM
  #326
thedoctor
                    
 
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by the way, for those feeling anti-player and believing the owner's claims of poverty, you might find this interesting: http://www.defendingbigd.com/2012/11...-money-revenue

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11-16-2012, 07:35 PM
  #327
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It's still unfathomable to me why people are upset with Fehr and the PA over this. The NHL has had record profits, and now they are negotiating a new CBA. There is a give and take in negotiations. We'll give you this, if you give us this type of thing. What is Bettman offering the players? He's asking them to give on everything and wants everyone to think he's been conceding with an unwilling partner, when all he did was back off a little from the moon he was asking for.

How can people be so blind? He's presided over three lockouts, and is likely to lose a second entire season. Something no other major sport has done once. The players even get publicly enraged by Bettman every time. Remember Chelios threatening his family in 94? He's a POS. But he works for the owners, and is appointed by them, and makes them money. Hence the reason he's still here. He doesn't work for the NHL, or represent the NHL or the game of hockey, he's the chairman of the board of NHL owners.

This is Bettman. It's his cap system that he insisted on implementing because other sports have it, despite the fact the NHL has a drastically smaller revenue pool, which results in both sides fighting over percentages much harder than the other sports. And he wants the players to give on all the money and contractual issues.

It's the same mentality as house republicans. These guys will hold entire countries hostage to earn or save what amounts to peanuts for them. Except the difference is Bettman wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to keep teams in bad markets, and he wants to share the wealth with all 30 teams so everyone is guaranteed a profit, but he doesn't want the owners to pay any more into it. He wants the players to cover the cost.

If that's what they want fine, but you have to offer the PA something to get them to give. You can't go into a negotiation and say we want this and this and this and this, and we're not gonna give you ****. Then act like you have an unwilling partner. It's just simply not rationale, and it's why NHL fans are about to lose their second full season to his tactics. Something no other fan base or commissioner has done once.


Last edited by Foppa2118: 11-16-2012 at 07:47 PM.
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11-16-2012, 07:43 PM
  #328
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http://www.thescore.com/home/article...-ways-with-khl

I say we trade Duchene for him while his value is low.

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11-16-2012, 08:53 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
http://www.thescore.com/home/article...-ways-with-khl

I say we trade Duchene for him while his value is low.
Absolutely LOVE this quote, “Unfortunately, Evander Kane could not adapt to hockey in the KHL,” athletic director Igor Matushkin said.



Also Foppa, I can say the same thing about you and Fehr.


Last edited by S E P H: 11-17-2012 at 02:48 PM.
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11-17-2012, 02:31 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post

Also Foppa, I can say the same thing about you and Fehr.
I understand that, and a lot of people do for some reason. I just don't see why?

We can all agree they're supposed to be negotiating right? And I would assume we all understand that you're supposed to offer things in return for things you want when negotiating right?

If so, what is Bettman offering the players that they don't already have? Just because his initial offer was absolutely insane, and he's backed off from that, doesn't mean he's offering the players anything? He's offering them NOTHING! He's asking for them to give on EVERYTHING!

It's not the players responsibility to fix a system he insisted on. It's not their responsibility alone to guarantee profit for all 30 teams, especially when Bettman has insisted on keeping teams in struggling markets.

What is he offering the players? Why are they expected to concede on every monetary and contractual issue? It's crazy. Bettman's stance since day one is a blueprint for how to lose a season. For the second time.

Say what you will about Fehr, but he wouldn't be doing his job if he just agreed to what Bettman wants. He does what the players want. The players don't want to be the only ones giving after years of record profits, and I don't blame them one bit.

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11-17-2012, 10:18 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
http://www.thescore.com/home/article...-ways-with-khl

I say we trade Duchene for him while his value is low.
Does he pay his bills in restaurants now?

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:29 PM
  #332
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So major **** can go down today, bros.

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11-21-2012, 01:36 PM
  #333
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So major **** can go down today, bros.
I hope so, doubt it.

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11-21-2012, 02:16 PM
  #334
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I'm. pretty sure that's the season there. disappointing. Oh well, there might be next year.

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11-21-2012, 02:22 PM
  #335
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It's not surprising. They give back in a 'major way' by not having guaranteed money in what, only the first year of the proposal? Hogwash. They didn't even have a 'guarantee' that they would make less than the year prior in the previous CBA...why would the owners give them something like that, this time around.

NHLPA is scared of the fan backlash and as well they should be but there's no reason that the owners should be on the hook for 100% of that. They're both to blame and both just as bad and greedy as the other.

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11-21-2012, 10:39 PM
  #336
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I was optimistic About today, but when more and more information about the PAs Proposal was coming out during their meeting I knew it didn't look good. Fehr is still trying to play hardball.

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11-22-2012, 02:18 AM
  #337
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It looks like Hamrlik won't be well liked in the PA anymore as he said that Fehr is also a bit to blame in this.

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11-22-2012, 09:28 AM
  #338
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Love reading LeBrun...

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...oser-to-a-deal

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11-22-2012, 10:29 AM
  #339
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He's been too pessimistic for me in the lockout. I think Dreger has been the best neutral reporting so far.

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11-22-2012, 11:33 AM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nzap View Post
It looks like Hamrlik won't be well liked in the PA anymore as he said that Fehr is also a bit to blame in this.
If the PA wants to ostracize and alienate someone for speaking truth's, then let them....but my suspicion is that Hamrlik is not the only one who feels this way, I would suspect quite a bit of the PA feels this way but just haven't had the balls to speak up. And why would they want to? The moment he does he's got Erik "God's Gift to Hockey/Most Charitable Guy In the World" Cole immediately jumping on him and calling him selfish.

I still can't wrap my head around this though,

Quote:
“If he were sitting in a dressing room across from me tonight…” Cole said, the rest of that sentence off the record. “I’d be all over him on the ice. I’m pissed at him. If that’s his opinion, then he should just stay over there (in the Czech Republic).
If the Lockout takes away this year and comes back next year, I hope there is a buyout period and the Habs buy Cole out and he's not able to play anymore...then he might understand what Hamrlik's feelings are right now.

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11-22-2012, 03:28 PM
  #341
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If the PA wants to ostracize and alienate someone for speaking truth's, then let them....but my suspicion is that Hamrlik is not the only one who feels this way
Apparently Neuvirth agrees with him:

Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris
According to Czech media reports, Michal Neuvirth says he agrees with Roman Hamrlik's stance on the lockout.

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11-23-2012, 10:34 AM
  #342
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Now Brouwer is chirping his own teammates! Heaven forbid if someone doesn't believe what you believe blindly that you now have to question their integrity as a teammate? That's ridiculous!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...chal-neuvirth/

Quote:
“Those are two guys that have never been on a conference call, never been to a meeting, never paid attention,” Brouwer told The Post in a telephone interview Thursday. “People are going to have their own opinions but when you’re fighting for something with 700 other guys, all you’re doing is just making it harder to make a deal and making it harder to accomplish the things we’re fighting for.

“For me, I think those guys selling us out, being selfish like that and making those comments … ” Brouwer said, trailing off. “Me being on their team, how am I going to trust them as a teammate from now on? Because you know they’re not going to support players in the big scheme of things when you go and you play on the team with them; it’s going to be tough to want to back those guys from now on.”

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11-23-2012, 11:47 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Now Brouwer is chirping his own teammates! Heaven forbid if someone doesn't believe what you believe blindly that you now have to question their integrity as a teammate? That's ridiculous!
It's funny that when a couple of players say "let's play" they get lynched by the other players.
The PA is becoming more of a joke each and every day that goes by.

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11-23-2012, 02:59 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Now Brouwer is chirping his own teammates! Heaven forbid if someone doesn't believe what you believe blindly that you now have to question their integrity as a teammate? That's ridiculous!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...chal-neuvirth/
I don't blame him. He threw 700 guys under the bus because he's getting old and hasn't won a cup yet. He basically admitted he did it for selfish reasons. That's what the meetings are for that he apparently doesn't go to. To speak your opinion and see if anyone else agrees with you. Not go to the media and empower Bettman.

It's the same thing every time. The young guys want to get the best deal because they're planning for the future, and the old guys forget what previous generations did for them and just want to settle on anything because they're gonna have to retire soon.

Quote:
"Someone thinks I'm selfish - I might be," Hamrlik told TSN. "But it's selfish to play hockey. I still want to play with the Capitals or at least have the chance to win and go as far as I can.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410069

This is what Bettman has been holding out for. For the union to get emotional and crack because they love playing the game, where as the owners can just sit and wait because they're in it for the money. They're still bringing it in, and don't have to pay their biggest expense by far, the players.

Their so called losses are greatly exaggerated for the same reason the Forbes report always shows the owners make way more money than they claim in HRR. Then factor in they're not paying their biggest expense, and that they will split hundreds of millions 30 ways in expansion and transfer fees for at least three teams after the lockout, that the players get none of, and you see why they can out wait the players who have to play for peanuts in Europe and pay their own insurance policies.

It's starting to play out just like it did last time, and it's why they pay a market research team to figure out how to convince people the players are the enemy here.

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11-23-2012, 04:28 PM
  #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I don't blame him. He threw 700 guys under the bus because he's getting old and hasn't won a cup yet. He basically admitted he did it for selfish reasons. That's what the meetings are for that he apparently doesn't go to. To speak your opinion and see if anyone else agrees with you. Not go to the media and empower Bettman.

It's the same thing every time. The young guys want to get the best deal because they're planning for the future, and the old guys forget what previous generations did for them and just want to settle on anything because they're gonna have to retire soon.



http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410069

This is what Bettman has been holding out for. For the union to get emotional and crack because they love playing the game, where as the owners can just sit and wait because they're in it for the money. They're still bringing it in, and don't have to pay their biggest expense by far, the players.

Their so called losses are greatly exaggerated for the same reason the Forbes report always shows the owners make way more money than they claim in HRR. Then factor in they're not paying their biggest expense, and that they will split hundreds of millions 30 ways in expansion and transfer fees for at least three teams after the lockout, that the players get none of, and you see why they can out wait the players who have to play for peanuts in Europe and pay their own insurance policies.

It's starting to play out just like it did last time, and it's why they pay a market research team to figure out how to convince people the players are the enemy here.
But my feeling is, that Hamrlik isn't the only person, out of 700 members of the PA, that feels this way, he was just the first to speak up. And how the hell are we supposed to know if he's been on any conference calls or attended any meetings?

As someone pointed out in the thread on the Main Board, isn't part of the jobs for the Team Reps to be filling others in on what's going on, because something may prevent them from going to a meeting or being on a call?

Hamrlik just has had enough, I don't think it's selfish that he DOESN'T want this lockout, the 3rd one he's been involved in, to rip away what little time he has left. Yes, how selfish of he to know that either way he and everyone in the PA are going to continue making millions over their careers playing a game.

And Neuvirth stepping up shows that it's not just one player. I won't be surprised to see more continue to echo these similar sentiments

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11-23-2012, 04:35 PM
  #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I don't blame him. He threw 700 guys under the bus because he's getting old and hasn't won a cup yet. He basically admitted he did it for selfish reasons. That's what the meetings are for that he apparently doesn't go to. To speak your opinion and see if anyone else agrees with you. Not go to the media and empower Bettman.

It's the same thing every time. The young guys want to get the best deal because they're planning for the future, and the old guys forget what previous generations did for them and just want to settle on anything because they're gonna have to retire soon.



http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410069

This is what Bettman has been holding out for. For the union to get emotional and crack because they love playing the game, where as the owners can just sit and wait because they're in it for the money. They're still bringing it in, and don't have to pay their biggest expense by far, the players.

Their so called losses are greatly exaggerated for the same reason the Forbes report always shows the owners make way more money than they claim in HRR. Then factor in they're not paying their biggest expense, and that they will split hundreds of millions 30 ways in expansion and transfer fees for at least three teams after the lockout, that the players get none of, and you see why they can out wait the players who have to play for peanuts in Europe and pay their own insurance policies.

It's starting to play out just like it did last time, and it's why they pay a market research team to figure out how to convince people the players are the enemy here.
I agree with everything you're saying HOWEVER, what they just aren't getting is, IT DOESN'T matter who is right and who is wrong. I've suspected the owners make much more $$$$ than they declare in HRR for years but in the end, it doesn't matter. I don't care if the owners are making 100x what they declare and I'm not even saying it's 'fair' that the owners do this to the players, all I'm saying is that the players need to realize that the owners are driving the boat.

The players are going to end up LOSING at the end of this dispute and it will it STILL end up favourably for them over time.

Think about it. What are the so-called contractual issues separating the two sides right now? 5 Year term limits? Am I ******** or can they still re-sign for ANOTHER 5 years after that 5 year deal is done? (Probably at a HIGHER WAGE)
  • What is the % of the 700 players that actually signs contracts longer than 5 years?
  • What is the % of the 700 players that actually HAVE backdiving contracts?
  • What is the % of the 700 players that actually have contracts that have more than 5% different in each year? (there are probably more here but this won't drive DOWN salaries)

Most or all of these factors affect 10% or less of the players in the NHLPA and the overall affect on the global contracts of the league is negligible.

This is not about any of that horse crap. This is about Gary Bettman having warned all 30 GMs and said to them, don't be signing your players to 'cap-circumventing' contracts because when the CBA is up, I'll make you pay.

And conversely, it's about the NHLPA trying to 'protect' these players with cap-circumventing contracts. Protect them from what? An eventual buyout? That player would CASH-IN on that buyout AND sign another contract with another team and probably make even MORE money. (like Tucker did...he's STILL getting paid by the Leafs)

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11-23-2012, 04:40 PM
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
He threw 700 guys under the bus because he's getting old and hasn't won a cup yet.
It's the same thing every time. The young guys want to get the best deal because they're planning for the future
Bolded part:
He is pissed cause possibly his last year and last chance to win a SC is destroyed by idiots.
Italic part:
Neuvirth is 24y old.
If that's not young then your perception of age is a bit different than mine.

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11-23-2012, 05:17 PM
  #348
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People will have different opinions no matter what's or who's involved. Didn't everyone really think that 700+ people all have the same ideas and want the same things? That's absurd, whoever called out Hamirlik is a moron, especially for saying how can I trust him and be his teammate.

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11-23-2012, 06:10 PM
  #349
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No matter which side you're on, I think we could all safely agree that this has now moved beyond classess and is just utterly pathetic.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...lland-obliges/

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11-23-2012, 07:50 PM
  #350
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I'm hoping that the Avs players continue to stay away from this crap. This is embarrassing.


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