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Burke was so High on the Jays Trade, could he do the same?

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:03 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Clearly, I really want to know what he did in 1 year!?
He's talking about AA adding much needed depth to the pitching staff and improving pretty much all facets of the Blue Jays roster.

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11-16-2012, 06:04 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I was listening to Burke yesterday on the radio, and he seemed so excited about the bold trade AA pulled off this week.

The Jays very significantly added to their payroll. While there's no cap in baseball, Burke are been very quiet in terms of going after the big names and handing out massive contracts. With the Leafs looking at a great cap situation going into next summer, could he finally be bold and go after the top UFA's? The Leafs have more than enough money to offer massive signing bonuses to the top UFA's to give them the best contract offers.
Some of us predicted way back when he started that 2012 - 2013 would be when he first had it set up financially to begin going after the big fish.

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11-16-2012, 06:16 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Yeah, on tier 2 and 3 free agents. He's afraid of making the big financial deal.
Did you even read the rest of my post?

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11-16-2012, 07:39 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Yeah, on tier 2 and 3 free agents. He's afraid of making the big financial deal.
No he's not.... he offered Richards huge term and money. He just refuses to circumvent the cap and good on him. We're one of the few teams that can't be called hypocrites during this lockout.

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11-16-2012, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
No he's not.... he offered Richards huge term and money. He just refuses to circumvent the cap and good on him. We're one of the few teams that can't be called hypocrites during this lockout.
6 years is not huge term to a big UFA nowadays.

And yeah we can`t be called hypocrites.. we`re still ****-on by everyone and no one cares.

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11-16-2012, 07:59 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
He's talking about AA adding much needed depth to the pitching staff and improving pretty much all facets of the Blue Jays roster.
Do you and vaive do realize that it's taken AA 3 years of stocking up on young players and depth to be in a position to make a major deal?

Any one else been doing something similar?

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11-16-2012, 08:07 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
Do you and vaive do realize that it's taken AA 3 years of stocking up on young players and depth to be in a position to make a major deal?

Any one else been doing something similar?
Don't associate him with me. I'm not correlating AA's work in baseball to Burke's work in hockey. They're both doing a fine job in fact.

Also just to clarify, AA could have went with the (blockbuster) deal a year ago and still had a top 10 system. Of course the deal couldn't have been presented at that time because Reyes and Buehrle were not with the Marlins in November of last year, but that's besides the point.

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11-16-2012, 09:02 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
It doesn't necessarily have to do with a trade, but just acquiring top flight talent. With a few guys coming off the books next year, they have the cap space to either sign quality players or acquire them in a trade.
Top flight talent is much more valuable in the NHL with the salary cap and salary floor. No team can just shed top guys and have a team salary of 10 million. Pieces just can't be tossed around like they can in the MLB. I'm sure if the salary floor was removed though, some owner would push his GM to do a trade like this and you'd hope Burke is all over it. Fact remains: Toronto just wasn't/hasn't been able to be competitive since the implementation of the cap.

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11-16-2012, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
Don't associate him with me. I'm not correlating AA's work in baseball to Burke's work in hockey. They're both doing a fine job in fact.

Also just to clarify, AA could have went with the (blockbuster) deal a year ago and still had a top 10 system. Of course the deal couldn't have been presented at that time because Reyes and Buehrle were not with the Marlins in November of last year, but that's besides the point.
My mistake, I misunderstood your post.
Apologies for lumping you together.

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11-17-2012, 09:49 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
No he's not.... he offered Richards huge term and money. He just refuses to circumvent the cap and good on him. We're one of the few teams that can't be called hypocrites during this lockout.

Why do fans get embroiled in this type of BS like its important. Why do I give a flying FFFFFFFF if the Leafs GM stands on a higher "moral" Ground. What a load of BS.

"If you aren't cheating you aren't trying" is a commonly used phrase in sports meaning do everything it takes to win....just don't get caught. Burke doesn't even play within the rules of the CBA. Ill take on Richards, Suter and Parise for the next decade for however much money they want. What are you afraid of? Seeing good hockey players play for the Leafs?

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11-18-2012, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I was listening to Burke yesterday on the radio, and he seemed so excited about the bold trade AA pulled off this week.

The Jays very significantly added to their payroll. While there's no cap in baseball, Burke are been very quiet in terms of going after the big names and handing out massive contracts. With the Leafs looking at a great cap situation going into next summer, could he finally be bold and go after the top UFA's? The Leafs have more than enough money to offer massive signing bonuses to the top UFA's to give them the best contract offers.
It will depend on how the new CBA is constructed, if the 10-15 year contracts are cut out then YES I could see Burke pulling off some bold moves. However if the contracts stay the same then NO I don't see him going there because his big ego would get in the way of doing what is right for the team.

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11-18-2012, 02:12 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Why do fans get embroiled in this type of BS like its important. Why do I give a flying FFFFFFFF if the Leafs GM stands on a higher "moral" Ground. What a load of BS.

"If you aren't cheating you aren't trying" is a commonly used phrase in sports meaning do everything it takes to win....just don't get caught. Burke doesn't even play within the rules of the CBA. Ill take on Richards, Suter and Parise for the next decade for however much money they want. What are you afraid of? Seeing good hockey players play for the Leafs?
This^^^^^^^^^!!!!! Who cares WHAT the contracts are, its simple the job of a GM is to do WHATEVER it takes to build the best team.

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11-18-2012, 03:03 AM
  #63
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Anyone ever think that Burke might have known that with the end of the old CBA, teams with huge, cap-circumventing contracts might end up getting punished with the new CBA?

Hasnt Burke been pushing for that for a long time now? It just stands to reason that if he had any foreknowledge of what was gonna be proposed in the new CBA, he would try to avoid it?

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11-18-2012, 04:51 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
This^^^^^^^^^!!!!! Who cares WHAT the contracts are, its simple the job of a GM is to do WHATEVER it takes to build the best team.


If Burke pretends to not know about the impending CBA changes with respect to contract length/structure, then it won't come true, right? Serenity now!!

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11-18-2012, 07:21 AM
  #65
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This^^^^^^^^^!!!!! Who cares WHAT the contracts are, its simple the job of a GM is to do WHATEVER it takes to build the best team.
What alot of people dont realize is signing these guys to long term contracts will come back to bite the gm in the ass.

What happens when Suter and Parise stop playing top line and are now 8 million a year caphit at 35 and the cap max drops to something like 60 million? Long term contracts help you win now but in 5 year-7 years these guys will screw there teams over ala Luongo

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11-18-2012, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Predaleafs View Post
What alot of people dont realize is signing these guys to long term contracts will come back to bite the gm in the ass.

What happens when Suter and Parise stop playing top line and are now 8 million a year caphit at 35 and the cap max drops to something like 60 million? Long term contracts help you win now but in 5 year-7 years these guys will screw there teams over ala Luongo
Yes that is a problem but again do you really belive Burke will be here another 5-10 years? I really don't think so, so that problem becomes the next GM's issue to tackle, Burke's job IS to use his time here to build the best team he can, he shouldn't worry about a bunch of what if's that may or may not happen a decade later.

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11-18-2012, 06:37 PM
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Yes that is a problem but again do you really belive Burke will be here another 5-10 years? I really don't think so, so that problem becomes the next GM's issue to tackle, Burke's job IS to use his time here to build the best team he can, he shouldn't worry about a bunch of what if's that may or may not happen a decade later.
So, sacrifice the future for short term gains. That plan sounds a bit familiar...

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11-18-2012, 07:02 PM
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So, sacrifice the future for short term gains. That plan sounds a bit familiar...
you're in the camp that wants to sacrifice the present for a mediocre future

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11-18-2012, 07:14 PM
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you're in the camp that wants to sacrifice the present for a mediocre future
Just how do you do that?

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11-18-2012, 07:51 PM
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Gilmour did ask for a trade out of Toronto.
Gilmour said they should only trade him if Cliff Fletcher got a trade offer which would have helped them, because I remember him saying he also wanted to stay if that was possible.

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11-19-2012, 08:23 AM
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I could most certainly be wrong, but I remember hearing something about the Flames offering big bucks to Richards. Not sure if they offered the most AAV or Toronto.
I heard it was between Flames and Rangers. Flames might have offered the most.

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11-19-2012, 08:28 AM
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So, sacrifice the future for short term gains. That plan sounds a bit familiar...
When is the future?

Burke should be using some of his stocked cupboard to improve the team now.

A full cupboard is useless if you aren't willing to consume from it. Like burying a millionaire, bit whoop for the dead guy.

Certainly, Burke should be making a deal like the Blue Jays just did, especially if he wants to ice a competitive team.

Trading several prospects won't hurt the future if you land a long term guaranteed front line contributor. Prospects are gambles, and when you have an abundance of these assets that's what you do, parlay them into a better on ice product.

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11-19-2012, 09:50 AM
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When is the future?

Burke should be using some of his stocked cupboard to improve the team now.

A full cupboard is useless if you aren't willing to consume from it. Like burying a millionaire, bit whoop for the dead guy.

Certainly, Burke should be making a deal like the Blue Jays just did, especially if he wants to ice a competitive team.

Trading several prospects won't hurt the future if you land a long term guaranteed front line contributor. Prospects are gambles, and when you have an abundance of these assets that's what you do, parlay them into a better on ice product.
its not as easy as people think move prospects for players. Name 5 teams that would move a number 1 center for prospects. Most teams have 1 #1 center and they wont move them for Kadri and a 1st. In baseball its alot easier to just trade these guys for prospects because deals like these happen often. Big name players hit UFA alot more in baseball and big name teams always use cash. thats the upside of the non-salary cap.

Deals like this could happen if there was no salary cap. Would Pittsburgh be able to hold onto Crosby and Malkin and Fluery and Letang in a non salary cap world. Probably not, when Crosby wants 12 million a year and Malkin wants 10 then Fluery wants 9 and Letang wants 8 plus Neal asks for more and the owner ends up paying out 90 million in salary instead of 60 million a season.

Point is teams arent lining up to trade top line centers for prospects when they only have one.

Also, the future will more than likely be next season. Burke isnt a stupid guy and he set his team up perfectly for next season. He has alot of guys coming off the books. The holes then get filled with Kadri,D`amigo....etc, who fight for a job. He can than maybe move a pick or to for depth as insurance if injury. Next season is Burkes make or break. If we finish bottom 10, he gets fired. Anything high, they keep him but playoffs are a must next season.

Overhauling a diaster takes time. There arnt many gms that wanted to do Stajan, Wellwood and Steen for a Getzlaf or Tavares. He waited and has made great trades. Patience is a great quality.

To many people on here say " Play the kids,but we want playoffs!" If we played the kids we would end up being worse off. You want the kids in a winning envirnment and the marlies are that right now

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11-19-2012, 12:32 PM
  #74
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its not as easy as people think move prospects for players. Name 5 teams that would move a number 1 center for prospects. Most teams have 1 #1 center and they wont move them for Kadri and a 1st. In baseball its alot easier to just trade these guys for prospects because deals like these happen often. Big name players hit UFA alot more in baseball and big name teams always use cash. thats the upside of the non-salary cap.

Deals like this could happen if there was no salary cap. Would Pittsburgh be able to hold onto Crosby and Malkin and Fluery and Letang in a non salary cap world. Probably not, when Crosby wants 12 million a year and Malkin wants 10 then Fluery wants 9 and Letang wants 8 plus Neal asks for more and the owner ends up paying out 90 million in salary instead of 60 million a season.

Point is teams arent lining up to trade top line centers for prospects when they only have one.

Also, the future will more than likely be next season. Burke isnt a stupid guy and he set his team up perfectly for next season. He has alot of guys coming off the books. The holes then get filled with Kadri,D`amigo....etc, who fight for a job. He can than maybe move a pick or to for depth as insurance if injury. Next season is Burkes make or break. If we finish bottom 10, he gets fired. Anything high, they keep him but playoffs are a must next season.

Overhauling a diaster takes time. There arnt many gms that wanted to do Stajan, Wellwood and Steen for a Getzlaf or Tavares. He waited and has made great trades. Patience is a great quality.

To many people on here say " Play the kids,but we want playoffs!" If we played the kids we would end up being worse off. You want the kids in a winning envirnment and the marlies are that right now

We're talking Burke here, not some part time GM from Phoenix.

We should expect a better GM to be better than a normal GM. Any GM can claim they tried and failed to improve the team. Burke isn't "any GM" so expectations are and should be higher.

With all the assets Burke has we shouldn't be making excuses, and I expect a big trade or two as soon as the new CBA is signed.

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11-19-2012, 12:53 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Why do fans get embroiled in this type of BS like its important. Why do I give a flying FFFFFFFF if the Leafs GM stands on a higher "moral" Ground. What a load of BS.

"If you aren't cheating you aren't trying" is a commonly used phrase in sports meaning do everything it takes to win....just don't get caught.
Well on that basis, it's unfair to judge Burke's stance on cap circumventing deals because as it stands today - the NHL is attempting on punishing those teams one way or another. We will see what happens but when the new CBA comes down the pipe A LOT of posters may be changing their tune.

Let's wait and see what happens before passing judgement.

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