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Old
11-16-2012, 09:36 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by departures89 View Post
For the people suggesting Ogando for Arencibia...

I don't know much about Ogando but would it be worth giving away a catcher for a relief arm when our bullpen is already stacked?
he started 29 games in 2011 and did well. Moved to the pen last year

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11-16-2012, 09:39 PM
  #27
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For the people suggesting Ogando for Arencibia...

I don't know much about Ogando but would it be worth giving away a catcher for a relief arm when our bullpen is already stacked?
Would Buck be enough for Ogando? I love JPA and I'd hate to see him moved when this team is on the verge of big things. The guy loves Toronto and the franchise and wants to be a part of a winner here. Even if we could keep him around as a DH who fills in as backup catcher I'd be happy. He's better than Lind as a hitter and is more of a team guy.

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11-16-2012, 09:41 PM
  #28
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Would Buck be enough for Ogando? I love JPA and I'd hate to see him moved when this team is on the verge of big things. The guy loves Toronto and the franchise and wants to be a part of a winner here. Even if we could keep him around as a DH who fills in as backup catcher I'd be happy. He's better than Lind as a hitter and is more of a team guy.
He's not really a better hitter than Lind though...

I like Arencibia as a person but as a player he's an average defender with some power but he doesn't get on nearly enough. Similar to Lind.

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11-16-2012, 09:43 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
Tell me what team had 3+ guys hit 25+ homeruns and drive in 90+ rbis last season?

ok lets look.......
just the american league

yankees had 5 (potentially)

cano granderson swisher texiera a-rod

baltimore has 3 to 5 guys who could
tampa had longoria zobrist upton pena (guys who have in he past
detroit 2 (could use another
texas 3 (beltre hamilton cruz - napoli could have
LA 3 pujols trumbo trout
white sox 4 or 5 - konerko rios dunn pierzynski viciedo
WTF? The Yankees had 2
Baltimore had 0
Tampa had 0
Detroit had 2
Texas had 2
LAA had 2
White Sox had 2

The correct answer was none, not that these aren't arbitrary cutoffs.

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11-16-2012, 09:47 PM
  #30
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http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/m...romises-111612

Reyes and Buehrle were promised by Miami that they would not be moved.

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Old
11-16-2012, 09:48 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by departures89 View Post
Im inclined to believe that Arencibia is a team leader which could be invaluable to the chemistry of the team. If another SP was acquired and Happ was made into a LR, I think that works better. (Just my opinion of course).

Obviously pitching is vital to team success (this year made that fact abundantly clear) but I just think that JPA still has some room to develop both offensively and defensively. Isn't he still young and controllable too?
The intangibles Arencibia brings are something Anthopolous will no doubt give careful consideration to in making any move. Hopefully between his overall roster moves and the new manager and staff he brings in, he'll be able to put together the right kind of culture where it won't necessarily rest on having one guy be the sole catalyst.

I should also point out that when Arencibia himself was coming up in 2010, it was Buck who showed him the ropes, gave him feedback and ensured he was included in each day's meeting between him and that day's starter. That last point, from what I gather, is quite unusual (typically it's just the catcher and starter alone, apparently). It's representative of the kind of guidance and leadership Buck shows.

While Arencibia could perhaps provide that example himself to d'Arnaud, he's still learning the position himself, and doesn't have Buck's wealth of experience to draw on. I don't know much about Wilson to know how he would fit in, but hopefully it won't be long before d'Arnaud forces himself into the MLB roster, making Wilson superfluous.

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11-16-2012, 09:48 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
Tell me what team had 3+ guys hit 25+ homeruns and drive in 90+ rbis last season?

ok lets look.......
just the american league

yankees had 5 (potentially)

cano granderson swisher texiera a-rod

baltimore has 3 to 5 guys who could
tampa had longoria zobrist upton pena (guys who have in he past
detroit 2 (could use another
texas 3 (beltre hamilton cruz - napoli could have
LA 3 pujols trumbo trout
white sox 4 or 5 - konerko rios dunn pierzynski viciedo
Yeah you're telling me that they could have potentially had those stats, but they didn't.

I could just tell you that Lawrie and Rasmus can hit 25+ homeruns, and knock in 90+ rbis, and you'd be alright with that. Right?

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11-16-2012, 09:50 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/m...romises-111612

Reyes and Buehrle were promised by Miami that they would not be moved.
Sucks for them, good for us.

I can't see them not fitting in with the others and enjoying a chance to get to the playoffs, and actually play in front of more than 6 fans per night

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11-16-2012, 09:50 PM
  #34
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All true, so I'm not worried. But I admit I hope Buehrle plays here - he's exactly the sort of steadying veteran presence I felt this roster needed, what I thought we might get by signing Dan Haren. He's a true pitcher rather than a thrower, and he can share his experience, insights and (above all) his calm reliability with the rest of the young staff.

As a guy who's provided a home for (to date) two rescue dogs myself, I have great respect for the work he and his wife do, and I'm confident that they will find a way to make it work.
Ya my family and I have welcomed rescue dogs into our household as well and honestly I feel the same way. Buehrle's track record speaks for itself. I too would love to have him play for my Blue Jays. I just feel like if this truly is as big a hang up as the media is making it out to be, AA has some sort of contingency plan in place.

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Old
11-16-2012, 09:52 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
WTF? The Yankees had 2
Baltimore had 0
Tampa had 0
Detroit had 2
Texas had 2
LAA had 2
White Sox had 2

The correct answer was none, not that these aren't arbitrary cutoffs.
potentially - projectedly

for example:
swisher doesnt count .272 24 93 ?
you dont think texiera could ? (.250 24 84 450ab)

5 guys on chicago hit 25+ homers

who on toronto could besides EE and JB
rasmus or lind ?

i doubt it

we need another big bat

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11-16-2012, 09:52 PM
  #36
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Sucks for them, good for us.

I can't see them not fitting in with the others and enjoying a chance to get to the playoffs, and actually play in front of more than 6 fans per night
Miami average - 27400
Toronto average - 25921

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

I guess they'll have to play in front of only 5 then.

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11-16-2012, 09:53 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/m...romises-111612

Reyes and Buehrle were promised by Miami that they would not be moved.
You know what guarantees that? A no trade clause that they passed on for extra dough. Their contracts were also put together in a way that indicated this could very much happen. Can't say I feel to bad for them. Winning should help soften the blow

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Old
11-16-2012, 09:54 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Would Buck be enough for Ogando? I love JPA and I'd hate to see him moved when this team is on the verge of big things. The guy loves Toronto and the franchise and wants to be a part of a winner here. Even if we could keep him around as a DH who fills in as backup catcher I'd be happy. He's better than Lind as a hitter and is more of a team guy.
At this point, I'm loathe to discount what Anthopolous can achieve with his mad Jedi skills. never say never!

That said, as much as I like Buck (see above), at this age of his career, his production and contract give him negative trade value. He's not going to fetch you any meaningful return whatsoever, never mind a controllable young pitcher.

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11-16-2012, 09:54 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Ohio Jones View Post
The intangibles Arencibia brings are something Anthopolous will no doubt give careful consideration to in making any move. Hopefully between his overall roster moves and the new manager and staff he brings in, he'll be able to put together the right kind of culture where it won't necessarily rest on having one guy be the sole catalyst.

I should also point out that when Arencibia himself was coming up in 2010, it was Buck who showed him the ropes, gave him feedback and ensured he was included in each day's meeting between him and that day's starter. That last point, from what I gather, is quite unusual (typically it's just the catcher and starter alone, apparently). It's representative of the kind of guidance and leadership Buck shows.

While Arencibia could perhaps provide that example himself to d'Arnaud, he's still learning the position himself, and doesn't have Buck's wealth of experience to draw on. I don't know much about Wilson to know how he would fit in, but hopefully it won't be long before d'Arnaud forces himself into the MLB roster, making Wilson superfluous.
This is what worries me. Buck would be more willing to show d'Arnaud the ropes considering his age and his 1 year contract. JPA might be less willing and see d'Arnaud as a threat to his job and thus wouldn't want to help or mentor the guy. Obviously i don't know the guy but I could see this being someone would do.

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Old
11-16-2012, 09:56 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
Miami average - 27400
Toronto average - 25921

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

I guess they'll have to play in front of only 5 then.
Jays weren't bringing in any fans in the 2nd half and the Marlins got a big boost in attendance because of the new stadium. Without a doubt the Jays will bring in 30K+ with this roster.

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11-16-2012, 09:57 PM
  #41
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It will be interesting to see who they hire as a manager. I think someone with experience would be preferred.

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11-16-2012, 09:57 PM
  #42
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Jays weren't bringing in any fans in the 2nd half and the Marlins got a big boost in attendance because of the new stadium. Without a doubt the Jays will bring in 30K+ with this roster.
If they build a winning atmosphere. You could have all these good players but be losing and people won't show up.

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11-16-2012, 09:58 PM
  #43
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Jays weren't bringing in any fans in the 2nd half and the Marlins got a big boost in attendance because of the new stadium. Without a doubt the Jays will bring in 30K+ with this roster.
I would hope so. If i lived in TO i know i would attend every game i could. That's what sucks about Edmonton, only got 2 choices EE or Oilers.

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11-16-2012, 09:59 PM
  #44
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It will be interesting to see who they hire as a manager. I think someone with experience would be preferred.
Like many have said Acta would be perfect fit now with the Dominican makeup of this team.

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:00 PM
  #45
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I would hope so. If i lived in TO i know i would attend every game i could. That's what sucks about Edmonton, only got 2 choices EE or Oilers.
Yes. THAT'S what sucks about Edmonton.

I kid. I kid.

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:00 PM
  #46
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If they build a winning atmosphere. You could have all these good players but be losing and people won't show up.
The Cubs have been in the dumps for a while now and they still average more fans than the Chi Sox. Boston garnered a higher average even with a worse team. I'm not saying the Jays will get 4 million and sell out every game like the early 90s, but people show up when there is star players.

I mean I wasn't even planning on buying tickets right away but now I gotta get my flex pack before all the AL East games are sold out.

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:02 PM
  #47
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Honest question, What kind of attendence numbers do you guys think the jays can get with THAT line up?. Is 50000 a night unthinkable?

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11-16-2012, 10:03 PM
  #48
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The Cubs have been in the dumps for a while now and they still average more fans than the Chi Sox. Boston garnered a higher average even with a worse team. I'm not saying the Jays will get 4 million and sell out every game like the early 90s, but people show up when there is star players.

I mean I wasn't even planning on buying tickets right away but now I gotta get my flex pack before all the AL East games are sold out.
The Cubs fans and Red Sox fans weren't going for the superstars. It's the same as the leafs. They are storied old teams that have legions of fans

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:06 PM
  #49
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Honest question, What kind of attendence numbers do you guys think the jays can get with THAT line up?. Is 50000 a night unthinkable?
Opening Series will be a sellout... after that I think it tails down for a bit, until the team starts winning (and it will). Then eventually we will get high numbers, Rogers wants.

Honestly, if we show up this season, it will give Rogers more of a reason to possibly give AA more cash to re-up Johnson/bring in another elite pitcher

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11-16-2012, 10:06 PM
  #50
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Honest question, What kind of attendence numbers do you guys think the jays can get with THAT line up?. Is 50000 a night unthinkable?
No chance in hell.

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