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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Will the lockout continue into next season?

View Poll Results: Into next year?
Yes 102 44.35%
No 128 55.65%
Voters: 230. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-16-2012, 12:56 AM
  #26
Freudian
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I have to vote no because it would be insane if it did.

Then again, I think it's insane it's mid-November and we don't have a deal.

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Old
11-16-2012, 01:38 AM
  #27
Colt45Blast
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I'm going to vote yes here seeing that not only Fehr has a high approval rating from the players but I do believe that he has given the players advice on what to do with their money in order to be ready for the long hall.

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:06 AM
  #28
DL44
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i voted YES.
But not because i believe it will, but now kinda hope it does for the entertainment factor.
I'm sooo curious to see what would happen if it goes nuclear.
What would Fehr's end game be then?
What would we read from the players.. the media.. the players!


None of the numbers i've run re-the proposals seemed to justify missing 2 weeks of the season... let alone 2 months. So to me we're already in mind boggling nonsensical territory in the process (obviously)..

I've personally already moved thru the denial stage (never thought we would lose a gm), the anger stage (climaxed at the PA/NHL failing to meet prior to the Nov 2nd 82 gm deadline).. Never went through Bargaining or Depression due to Having a Life and taking on a new hobby which likely wouldn't of happened if there was a season - Golf. (also I'm married with a kid with another on the way)

I'm completely in the Acceptance and Indifference stage of the process... just following along to read reactions to any new quotes.. i.e. Daley done with proposals.. and today's 2-week break suggestion... just awesome stuff to read.

Don't get me wrong.. i will likely be back watching once the game returns... in the meanwhile i'm not missing the game AT ALL-honest...

So hoping the game returns.. but kinda curious to see what happens if it doesn't...

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:13 AM
  #29
Psychoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepin le bref View Post
I hope the NHL dies, I'm hoping for empty arenas in huge markets, I hope Bettman, Daly, Fehr, Crosby and Toews and all the players legacy is destroying this joke of a league. I hate everybody, including myself for caring so much for a bunch of greedy millionaires.

After the 2004-05 decacle, I thought both parties would be smart enough to pull off a win-win deal at the right time...boy was I naive
well said, these guys can go to hell. They've destroyed all and any momentum. The league is trash. Management is trash, players are trash. This debacle needs to be put down for once and for all.


Im so sick of this ********. All i ever wanted was to watch hockey and these nimrods can even figure out how to split 3.3 billion dollars. Its sad really.

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:16 AM
  #30
Timmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DL44 View Post
i voted YES.
But not because i believe it will, but now kinda hope it does for the entertainment factor.
I'm sooo curious to see what would happen if it goes nuclear.
What would Fehr's end game be then?
What would we read from the players.. the media.. the players!


None of the numbers i've run re-the proposals seemed to justify missing 2 weeks of the season... let alone 2 months. So to me we're already in mind boggling nonsensical territory in the process (obviously)..

I've personally already moved thru the denial stage (never thought we would lose a gm), the anger stage (climaxed at the PA/NHL failing to meet prior to the Nov 2nd 82 gm deadline).. Never went through Bargaining or Depression due to Having a Life and taking on a new hobby which likely wouldn't of happened if there was a season - Golf. (also I'm married with a kid with another on the way)

I'm completely in the Acceptance and Indifference stage of the process... just following along to read reactions to any new quotes.. i.e. Daley done with proposals.. and today's 2-week break suggestion... just awesome stuff to read.

Don't get me wrong.. i will likely be back watching once the game returns... in the meanwhile i'm not missing the game AT ALL-honest...

So hoping the game returns.. but kinda curious to see what happens if it doesn't...

It's like watching a big-budget disaster movie.

They spend two thirds of the show trying to prevent the catastrophe, but all the audience wants to see is how innovative the film maker will be in destroying the Statue of Liberty for the 1,327th time.

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:38 AM
  #31
Riptide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frkinator View Post
Mutiny? huh...you do know they vote right? Fehr has zero influence apart from being the voice of the players and providing leadership.

Declare a impasse and have the courts mandate a contract...sorry but this is not how this works...and for good reason...imagine the crap life you would have if things actually worked like that.

Personally I said it before, I hope this drags as long as possible and the league collapses...I like hockey, not the NHL. We will be all better of with some rejuvenation of the sport.
You can't really believe this... He has TONS of influence. He was behind Goodnow last time around and was encouraging them to hold out multiple years. There's a reason why he was pissed when the NHL posted their offer online. It's because in order for him to attempt to control the message going to the players, he needs to control the info so that he can spin the message. Go look at some of his memo's. The NHL offered to make the players whole... but it's not really whole... That's simply spin. There's tons of ways to phrase that, yet he's choosing to phrase it to make the offer and the NHL look as bad as possible.

I'm not saying Bettman is any different... he has influence as well. But the difference there is that the NHL has 29 owners who are business people - none of whom got rich off their NHL franchises. They can do the math, and see what will be acceptable and what won't.

However the players have 700 members... of which only a few (maybe as much as 1/3rd) currently have a job in another league, and of which many have not had years to bank the big bucks to support their life style without making their 2.7m contract (or whatever the league average is). Due to this, the players will definitely feel the hardship a lot sooner than the owners. This is the leverage the NHL has. And this is why it's unlikely this will go into next season.

Everyone has an agenda, and while some of them might go in similar directions, they all have slightly different paths. Players (really rich and the lesser rich) all get an equal vote. They're all advised by their agents, families and advisers. All of whom each have their own agenda. Fehr and Bettman and each and every owner all have their own agenda's (and everyone's is very different depending on their personal circumstances). The honest upstanding individuals will shelve their agenda for the common good, and advise their constituents without any spin and allow them to make their own decisions.

In this regard I have more faith in Bettman doing this over Fehr. Simply because the growth of the game depends on ALL the owners doing well. Fehr could give two ***** about the game as long as he gets the best deal possible for the players. Which means he needs to spin the crap out of things.

/rant

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Old
11-16-2012, 05:09 AM
  #32
BergyMeister
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I voted no. I don't think the 2 sides are so stupid as to drag this into a 2nd season. (I do think this season is a goner.) Although I didn't think the 2 sides were so stupid as to let it get to this point, so it's not something I would bet against either.

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Old
11-16-2012, 05:49 AM
  #33
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Sometimes I like to think that both sides are dumb enough to do it. Then I remember that every work stoppage in the NHL has gone on longer than the one before it. Also, that the NHL has a hard cap, and the PA has Donald Fehr, who I can't see agreeing to any deal that has a hard cap, because he's Donald Fehr, and Fehr willingly agreed to get involved in a fight against an ownership group that cancelled an entire season for the one thing that Fehr dislikes the most.

Then I become almost sure that both sides are dumb enough to make this whole thing crazy. As in, we'll be lucky if there's NHL hockey in January 2014.

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11-16-2012, 06:19 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrdevil View Post
I think there will be a season (and it could come sooner than it may seem). If this kills a season the same thing that happened to Goodenow will happen to Fehr.
To some degree, that may be worth it. I cannot say I look forward to the next CBA with Fehr around. At this point though, I remain doubtful we see NHL hockey any time this year.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:19 AM
  #35
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I think we will miss the first part of next season.

The fun part is missing the draft and how the nhl will deal with that

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:43 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
I think we will miss the first part of next season.

The fun part is missing the draft and how the nhl will deal with that


Haven't they had to deal with once already? That's the easy part compared to getting both sides to agree.

I voted No. Left to his own Fehr would have the lockout go into season 2, but it would be career suicide for hundreds of players, so at some point the guys missing paychecks will push for a settlement.

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Old
11-16-2012, 01:01 PM
  #37
leaflover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepin le bref View Post
I hope the NHL dies, I'm hoping for empty arenas in huge markets, I hope Bettman, Daly, Fehr, Crosby and Toews and all the players legacy is destroying this joke of a league. I hate everybody, including myself for caring so much for a bunch of greedy millionaires.

After the 2004-05 decacle, I thought both parties would be smart enough to pull off a win-win deal at the right time...boy was I naive
At one time just the thought of the death of the NHL would have caused me great anxiety, not so much now. I realized following the no4/no5 season that i only care about watching the worlds best players and could care less if they played under the rules and regulations of the NHL, HHL, THL or any other ABCDE-HL. As long as its the best hockey in the world i don't care if Donald Duck is commisioner, aliens own all the teams, and the championship trophy is called the Sippy Cup.

Call it anything you want just put the best of the best on the ice and lets play hockey.

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Old
11-16-2012, 01:22 PM
  #38
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For the most part, hockey isn't the primary source of revenue of most owners.

Additionally, an owner can theoretically own a team for dozens of years. A year or two could really pay out in the long run if they get a beneficial CBA.

On the other hand, statistics say that the average NHL player plays 5-6 seasons (obviously stars play longer), so the fact is that losing a single season will most likely never pay off for most NHLers, and I don't buy for a minute that they are doing it for "the kids and future of the NHL". Couple that with the fact that revenues are likely to fall through the floor due to backlash from an extended lockout, and they are going to take an even bigger hit.

I would expect a riot from everyone but the biggest names and biggest salaries if this looked to be heading to two years.

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Old
11-16-2012, 05:43 PM
  #39
mranderson
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A deal gets hammered some time in Dec. 2012.

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11-16-2012, 05:54 PM
  #40
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No, it'll probably end by next summer. Thought they'd be smarter than this and avoid another lost season but looks like I was wrong.

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Old
11-16-2012, 05:59 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Fehr fired/resigns... nhlpa will settle for less than what's been offered the past week or so.

Just like last time...
FYI-The NHLPA ultimately got more than the NHL's last ditch season saving offer last time.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:16 PM
  #42
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i still hold out hope that there will be a deal in time to salvage a 50 game season (this is still unacceptable, btw). these guys can't be that stupid, can they? OTOH, as others have pointed out, this lockout has long passed stupid. the level disrespect and disregard for the integrity of the league is mindnumbing.

but, if they gas the season, then it , surely, will go into the next, and I think it will be the start of the end of the NHL. Can these guys not see that their league is a joke, and tetering on irrelevancy, already. 18 months without a game played will be the death nail.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:31 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrdevil View Post
I think there will be a season (and it could come sooner than it may seem). If this kills a season the same thing that happened to Goodenow will happen to Fehr.
As long as Fehr and Bettman are not around for the next CBA I will be happy...these two clowns have to go.....

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:32 PM
  #44
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"It's always darkest before the dawn".


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Last edited by Julius Caesar Milan: 11-16-2012 at 06:39 PM.
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Old
11-16-2012, 06:51 PM
  #45
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What's frustrating is that I don't feel they're "talking" about the right thing when they ARE talking.

It's obvious to me that tweaking the current structure doesn't work, and an more inclusive structure needs to be developed (using median revenue rather than average).

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:58 PM
  #46
LukeD
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I hope it never ends.

Without the Flames disappointing me, I feel a lot more calm, a lot happier.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:01 PM
  #47
Ollie Williams
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It would be very stupid on both the league's and player's side to let this go on for more than 1 season. Is it worth taking an extra several million in exchange for over 3 billion in lost potential revenue?

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:02 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
FYI-The NHLPA ultimately got more than the NHL's last ditch season saving offer last time.
I could've sworn the last ditch effort was a $42.5M + $2.2M benefits linked system + ~50% of the pay cheques for 2004-05 - instead of a $39M linked system + 0 pay cheques for the 2004-05 season.

Were there more details relating to the 11th hr NHL proposal that I'm missing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004%E2...t#Negotiations




Edit: (Rough computations)

Revenues in 2003-2004 were $2.2B

At $42.5M => Player compensation = 57.9%
At $39 M (at the beg. of CBA) => Player compensation = 53.2%


Last edited by mranderson: 11-16-2012 at 08:09 PM. Reason: Quantitative clarifications
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Old
11-16-2012, 09:59 PM
  #49
Ringmaster316
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hopefully

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:05 PM
  #50
Taco Fingerhat
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Originally Posted by Ringmaster316 View Post
hopefully
Agreed.

Screw both sides. An asterisk season is stupid. If my Canucks won the Cup on a shortened season it would feel tainted. I'd rather both groups lose a ton of money and have a shot at the 1st overall draft pick next year. I really do believe that both groups are stubborn enough to lose the rest of the season, si I'm voting "yes"

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