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Everybody's talking at me; I don't hear a word they're saying (CBA/Lockout XXIX)

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:57 PM
  #651
Bourne Endeavor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
And in 2004 Brad Richards came out and said publicly that the union would NEVER agree to a salary cap.
Yep. Players like to talk but history has shown that is more or less all it ever is: talk.

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11-16-2012, 11:00 PM
  #652
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Wow, the NHL must really not want my money.
After the last lockout I decided not to spend a cent on this beer league.
I only JUST started buying NHL related stuff last year.
Guess I'll go to a few more concerts this year.

I know about 30 or so hockey fans that spend about $1000 a year on tickets, jerseys etc. and all of them (save one) have said they will not support the NHL for at least the next season.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:01 PM
  #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Crosby said the union would never agree to allow rookie contracts to be extended to 5 years (this is not actually in the league's proposal).

Fehr told Bettman he didn't have anything to say and didn't know how to proceed.

Bettman answered by saying to call him back in two weeks.

Ian White called Bettman an idiot.

Mark Recchi said the PA should smarten up and take the deal.

Eric Lindros said whatever Don Fehr said two months ago.

The players don't want to take two weeks off and told Fehr to go negotiate again.

The NHL hasn't responded yet.

Fehr told the players that if they want to continue, it's going to hurt financially a lot.

Latendresse expressed regret about not signing two earlier offers.

Bunch of other guys said the NHL sucks and Recchi just wants to get a job with the NHL.

Bill Daly mailed a graph of what the NHLPA wants to Michael Russo. It's somewhere between 64% and 77% in year one, depending on whose projections you believe.


That's where we're at.
this is outstanding! I will check back with Billy weekly from here on in

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:02 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Not entirely correct. The purpose of a cap system (one that incorporates both a ceiling and a floor) is to ensure that team expenditures don't vary wildly. In other words, the purpose is to achieve parity.

A ceiling, alone, artificially restricts player salaries. A floor, alone, artificially raises player salaries. Together? Well, we can look at escrow to see the effect. Someone may have to fact check this for me but I believe I read somewhere that in 5 of the last 7 years, players have received the entirety of their contributions to escrow back. If that was the case, then the league has spent at or below the mandate in 5 of the past 7 years, despite having the flexibility to overspend towards 65% of HRR (i.e. every team spending to the cap ceiling). If the league as a whole was spending above and beyond the mandate, then players would be giving money back to the owners at the end of the season. How many times has that happened in the last 7 years?

What really restricts player salaries is the predefined %, and only if that predefined % is causing the players to leave money on the table. If players were paying back the owners in more years than not then I would agree that theres demand for cap space that's artificially being cut down. But we haven't seen much of that.
You have it reversed. In 5 of the 7 years the players didn't receive the entirety of their contributions back. The two seasons that the players did receive 100%+ back were 2005-2006 and 2007-2008.

The 5 years they lost escrow ranged from ~0.5% last season to almost 13% in 2008-2009.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:12 PM
  #655
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Sounds like this was a big night for the NHLPA on the news side. Let the pressure build and crack the Fehr wall.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:13 PM
  #656
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Pull the plug Gary!

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:24 PM
  #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanSince2012 View Post
Kevin Paul Dupont Tweet:

Increasing talk that Goodenow is calling in advice to Fehr, NHLPA.

That oughta help. Oh, yeah.
LOL. Un****ingbelievable. The PA has become a complete sideshow.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:29 PM
  #658
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So it's taken the players until today to begin to understand the situation they're in? A little slow eh...the exact scenario unfolding could have been predicted 2, 3, 4 weeks ago...heck, even 4 months ago when the PA refused to negotiate in the summer.

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11-16-2012, 11:32 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
So it's taken the players until today to begin to understand the situation they're in? A little slow eh...the exact scenario unfolding could have been predicted 2, 3, 4 weeks ago...heck, even 4 months ago when the PA refused to negotiate in the summer.
When is the league going to start negotiating?

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:33 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by Slads View Post
I think a good concession that the NHL should give to the players is a fully paid introductory course in economics when they are drafted. I'm not being facetious either; something that allows players to be better decision makers would benefit everyone.
Actually thats a very good idea. Chris Phillips and Dany Heatley are both suing their former agent for ripping them off for millions in some kind of real estate deals.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:33 PM
  #661
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First my disclaimer; I'm not on any side here.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the players cave and take the leagues offer and in 2 years the TV deal with the NHL triples giving the players a ridiculous amount of HRR with the owners left with wishing they had taken Fehr's d-linked proposal

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:37 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by sixgunsdad View Post
First my disclaimer; I'm not on any side here.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the players cave and take the leagues offer and in 2 years the TV deal with the NHL triples giving the players a ridiculous amount of HRR with the owners left with wishing they had taken Fehr's d-linked proposal
Basically the same thing that happened with the last CBA, with less severe pain at the start?

And then when that happens the system breaks again? Everyone in the league spends to the cap, revenue slows after an upward adjustment, so the cap gets bound, GMs find gimmicks to make it a soft cap, the % gets screwed by the deals, the players get HAMMERED one year on escrow, and everyone starts arguing again!

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:39 PM
  #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixgunsdad View Post
First my disclaimer; I'm not on any side here.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the players cave and take the leagues offer and in 2 years the TV deal with the NHL triples giving the players a ridiculous amount of HRR with the owners left with wishing they had taken Fehr's d-linked proposal
The point isn't so much as what would happen if HRR skyrockets as much as what would happen is HRR plummets. The league isn't saying it doesn't want to pay the players. They just want to be protected in the event of catastrophe (revenues stop growing). Its quite clear the league would have done much better with a delinked proposal from 2005 (as the PA was proposing then too), but its obvious they're willing to sign the same type of deal just in case. And they know the Canadian TV deal is up for grabs.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:39 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
Basically the same thing that happened with the last CBA, with less severe pain at the start?

And then when that happens the system breaks again? Everyone in the league spends to the cap, revenue slows after an upward adjustment, so the cap gets bound, GMs find gimmicks to make it a soft cap, the % gets screwed by the deals, the players get HAMMERED one year on escrow, and everyone starts arguing again!
I'm expecting something to that effect already.

And that catastrophe would be a plummet in HRR which this lockout may have done.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:41 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
I'm expecting something to that effect already.

And that catastrophe would be a plummet in HRR which this lockout may have done.
Well, after this all gets straightened out, the fun part is going to be doing a HRR estimate, especially with how escrow adverse the players are. That could be a nice argument in itself.

Hey, but that's how we got a star player signed for 463 years. Because he was on our cap and no one else had any cap space to spend.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:42 PM
  #666
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Wouldnt it be funny, once the league gets back. All of these players get fined for there comments on twitter (something that would happen if the league was playing right now)

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:45 PM
  #667
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That's one of the Fehr boys' sticking points I think; the way the split happens after they agree on the CBA and stuff. Dunno what either side is really proposing on that topic yet since they can't agree on what font to paint the "Thank you Fans" into the ice with yet.

Either no cap or no cash. I guess the devils don't have much cash these days either though since the trend is everyone gives the player immediate cash now. #PerryUFA2013

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:45 PM
  #668
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
Wouldnt it be funny, once the league gets back. All of these players get fined for there comments on twitter (something that would happen if the league was playing right now)
I like when the players speak their mind and show their personality. To each their own.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:56 PM
  #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
The NHL should require drafted players to complete one year of college.

Some of the things the players say are down right stupid.

For what it is worth, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Not only does the NBA make potential players have at least one year of college eligibility behind them, they also do rookie seminars which include various things such as adapting to the NBA schedule, sexual conduct, etc, and you bet they talk a lot about financial situations. That said, how many of those kids do you think really listen? Many are 19-20 coming out of college where they were treated as superstars and feel they are invincible.

In the end many of today's athletes need more than just one year of college economics and a seminar to understand how easily someone can pull the rug from underneath them. Others have brought up the ESPN 30/30 doc "Broke" and its amazing what kind of tricks financial advisers and lawyers have pulled. Unless you know your economics, clauses, in and outs, and are everything explained in great detail, you could be taken for a wild ride.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:59 PM
  #670
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Who are best people to follow on twitter for updates?

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Old
11-17-2012, 12:08 AM
  #671
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Who are best people to follow on twitter for updates?
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun
https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN
https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS
https://twitter.com/Russostrib
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet
https://twitter.com/kevin_mcgran
https://twitter.com/reporterchris
https://twitter.com/michaelgrange

There's a ton of others but those are some of the prominent ones.

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Old
11-17-2012, 12:09 AM
  #672
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Bob's latest tweet:

Another "white noise" (Ian?) day in CBA standoff. Much idiot talk, a cattle call, player turned media expert and none of it matters a bit.



...which player was the media expert?

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Old
11-17-2012, 12:20 AM
  #673
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Thank you

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Old
11-17-2012, 12:21 AM
  #674
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Wow is this turning into some good drama. How these people think the NHL is bigger than it is, shocks me. All we have left is the league tearing itself apart as if it was their plan all along. What a complete joke.

I don't care to pick a side, but the owners are playing this one right. Whether their demands are correct is and has been debated beyond debate. That being said, the owners continue to give deadlines and they don't mess around. I like it. Let Fehr tear the PA apart and move forward.

If this season is locked out, the NHL should be booed on opening game. That is just so terrible.

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Old
11-17-2012, 12:32 AM
  #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilty00 View Post
Did Walsh delete his twitter or something? I can't seem to find him...
He's been pretty quiet since Damien Cox shredded him tweet-by-tweet.

It's entirely possible that someone from the PA asked him to stop, since he was just drawing negative attention anyway. Obvious propaganda has a reverse effect.

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