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Old
11-16-2012, 11:46 PM
  #76
smitty10
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The Toronto Blue Jays held a dinner in Saskatoon tonight to raise money for an indoor ball park in Saskatoon. Former Jays Gregg Zaun, Roberto Alomar, and Duane Ward were there and so were Jamie Campbell, Sandy Alomar Sr., and Andrew Albers (Saskatchewan Male Athlete of the Year who pitched for Canada in the World Championship). Anyways a few interesting things were said. All of them were ecstatic about the Jays new acquisitions. Roberto Alomar and Duane Ward compared the team the Jays have now to the teams that won in '92 and '93. When Sandy Alomar Sr. was asked if he would become the Jays new manager he never responded. He talked about coaching Jose Reyes previously and said he was the one of the hardest workers he had ever seen. Probably the most interesting thing was Gregg Zaun said John Farrell was terrible. He said he let the players take everything way too easy and had everything unorganized. Anyway, I thought this stuff was interesting at least...
Thanks for the information!

Wouldn't mind Sandy as manager. I think AA will get a Latino in so he should have a shot.

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11-16-2012, 11:48 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by oats View Post
The Toronto Blue Jays held a dinner in Saskatoon tonight to raise money for an indoor ball park in Saskatoon. Former Jays Gregg Zaun, Roberto Alomar, and Duane Ward were there and so were Jamie Campbell, Sandy Alomar Sr., and Andrew Albers (Saskatchewan Male Athlete of the Year who pitched for Canada in the World Championship). Anyways a few interesting things were said. All of them were ecstatic about the Jays new acquisitions. Roberto Alomar and Duane Ward compared the team the Jays have now to the teams that won in '92 and '93. When Sandy Alomar Sr. was asked if he would become the Jays new manager he never responded. He talked about coaching Jose Reyes previously and said he was the one of the hardest workers he had ever seen. Probably the most interesting thing was Gregg Zaun said John Farrell was terrible. He said he let the players take everything way too easy and had everything unorganized. Anyway, I thought this stuff was interesting at least...
I wouldn't care about that part, whether it was Zaun who said it or someone else. This kind of stuff only ever comes out and almost always comes out after someone leaves on 'bad' terms. You never hear about it while they are still with the team.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:53 PM
  #78
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Cant wait for the press conference for the signing and the trade. Wonder if AA will also have the new manager by then
Same! It'll be fun to see Reyes, Johnson, Buerhle, Buck, Bonefacio, Rogers, Izturis and Cabrera putting on their Jays jerseys. Maybe we'll have grabbed a first-string 2nd basemen and a #5 starter/long reliever to fill out the rest of the lineup (I'm likely wishing for too much, but with this offseason you never know!). I'm happy with Happ as #5 in the rotation, but if someone goes down we'll have to dig into the system again to bring someone up. I'd much rather see us bring up a reliever and plug in a proven major leaguer into the rotation than have us bringing up kids and throwing them into games.

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11-16-2012, 11:55 PM
  #79
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I think in the abscence of trading JPA and the unlikelihood of moving Lind's contract the answer lies in a 3 way rotation/platoon with JPA, Lind and d'Arnaud. d'Arnaud and JPA would be designated certain starting pitchers to partner with and the odd man out on any given day will spell Lind when a lefthander is on the mound. This will provide sufficient playing time for both catchers and insulate Lind from those dreaded southpaws.

I am not sure where Buck would fit in this plan but I think one of Buck, JPA or Lind will have to be moved. I recognize that Buck is also overpaid but perhaps he could be hidden in a deal for a #5 starter.

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11-17-2012, 12:01 AM
  #80
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Same! It'll be fun to see Reyes, Johnson, Buerhle, Buck, Bonefacio, Rogers, Izturis and Cabrera putting on their Jays jerseys. Maybe we'll have grabbed a first-string 2nd basemen and a #5 starter/long reliever to fill out the rest of the lineup (I'm likely wishing for too much, but with this offseason you never know!). I'm happy with Happ as #5 in the rotation, but if someone goes down we'll have to dig into the system again to bring someone up. I'd much rather see us bring up a reliever and plug in a proven major leaguer into the rotation than have us bringing up kids and throwing them into games.
Yeah im also comfortable letting Happ be the #5 as all I think that we really have to do now is just get more depth for SP. Is Laffey still under contract with us? would anyone want to bring him back as a depth move again this year?

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11-17-2012, 12:02 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Same! It'll be fun to see Reyes, Johnson, Buerhle, Buck, Bonefacio, Rogers, Izturis and Cabrera putting on their Jays jerseys. Maybe we'll have grabbed a first-string 2nd basemen and a #5 starter/long reliever to fill out the rest of the lineup (I'm likely wishing for too much, but with this offseason you never know!). I'm happy with Happ as #5 in the rotation, but if someone goes down we'll have to dig into the system again to bring someone up. I'd much rather see us bring up a reliever and plug in a proven major leaguer into the rotation than have us bringing up kids and throwing them into games.
That's why we have Cecil in the pen! I'd personally rather spend money on a 1B/2B, but if AA wants to get us all three, I'm good with that too

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11-17-2012, 12:02 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by oats View Post
The Toronto Blue Jays held a dinner in Saskatoon tonight to raise money for an indoor ball park in Saskatoon. Former Jays Gregg Zaun, Roberto Alomar, and Duane Ward were there and so were Jamie Campbell, Sandy Alomar Sr., and Andrew Albers (Saskatchewan Male Athlete of the Year who pitched for Canada in the World Championship). Anyways a few interesting things were said. All of them were ecstatic about the Jays new acquisitions. Roberto Alomar and Duane Ward compared the team the Jays have now to the teams that won in '92 and '93. When Sandy Alomar Sr. was asked if he would become the Jays new manager he never responded. He talked about coaching Jose Reyes previously and said he was the one of the hardest workers he had ever seen. Probably the most interesting thing was Gregg Zaun said John Farrell was terrible. He said he let the players take everything way too easy and had everything unorganized. Anyway, I thought this stuff was interesting at least...
Zaun is a moron who has an overinflated ego. His comments today on the FAN590 were laughable. Zaun was not well liked as a player as he is a prickly redneck who was outspoken but not bright enough to make any valid points. I like listening to him talk about the art of catching and dealing with pitchers but when he speaks about anything else he sounds like the baseball version of Don Cherry.

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11-17-2012, 12:03 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I think in the abscence of trading JPA and the unlikelihood of moving Lind's contract the answer lies in a 3 way rotation/platoon with JPA, Lind and d'Arnaud. d'Arnaud and JPA would be designated certain starting pitchers to partner with and the odd man out on any given day will spell Lind when a lefthander is on the mound. This will provide sufficient playing time for both catchers and insulate Lind from those dreaded southpaws.

I am not sure where Buck would fit in this plan but I think one of Buck, JPA or Lind will have to be moved. I recognize that Buck is also overpaid but perhaps he could be hidden in a deal for a #5 starter.
If you wanted to, you could trade Buck for an equally overpaid "#6" starter. Someone like Nick Blackburn comes to mind.

Just a thought.

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Old
11-17-2012, 12:06 AM
  #84
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Yeah im also comfortable letting Happ be the #5 as all I think that we really have to do now is just get more depth for SP. Is Laffey still under contract with us? would anyone want to bring him back as a depth move again this year?
No, I believe Laffey is an FA.

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11-17-2012, 12:08 AM
  #85
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What would it cost to get Logan Morrison from the Marlins? Probably not a lot considering our last trade

But seriously, what would sane management ask for him?

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11-17-2012, 12:08 AM
  #86
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That's why we have Cecil in the pen! I'd personally rather spend money on a 1B/2B, but if AA wants to get us all three, I'm good with that too
The Jays can clear some space if they can move Buck and Lind. That would allow us to get a decent #5/long reliever and add a good second basemen while possibly saving a million or so in the process. Losing Lind takes away another lefty though, which we can't really afford.

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11-17-2012, 12:20 AM
  #87
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Has anyone made a joke about the only way jays could assemble a winning team was to sign someone who cheated yet?

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11-17-2012, 12:31 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
The Jays can clear some space if they can move Buck and Lind. That would allow us to get a decent #5/long reliever and add a good second basemen while possibly saving a million or so in the process. Losing Lind takes away another lefty though, which we can't really afford.
I think second base is set. I doubt AA will be looking to add a top 2nd baseman after promising Izturis playing time when he signed him. A combination of Izturis and Bonifacio at second should be adequate when considering the strength of the rest of the lineup. The obvious question mark is a lack of depth in starting pitching as there is precious little insurance if a starter or two go down, which is a likely scenario imo.

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11-17-2012, 12:35 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I think second base is set. I doubt AA will be looking to add a top 2nd baseman after promising Izturis playing time when he signed him. A combination of Izturis and Bonifacio at second should be adequate when considering the strength of the rest of the lineup. The obvious question mark is a lack of depth in starting pitching as there is precious little insurance if a starter or two go down, which is a likely scenario imo.
That seems to me like the area that could use the most improving now. I like our top 5, but after that there isn't a whole lot at this point in time. As has been suggested, getting a swingman (I know what that means now ) or another starter so Happ becomes the swingman seems sufficient enough to me.

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11-17-2012, 12:45 AM
  #90
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No, I believe Laffey is an FA.
Yup, after Jays took him off the 40-man, he elected FA.

I hope he considers come back... I think he is a fine 8th/9th option and could even be a LOOGY considering he is left handed. Jays don't have the space on put him on the 40 man right now but they could make a promise to add him once the season begin and spots are opened up with Hutch/Drabek/Perez being listed on the 60 man DL.

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11-17-2012, 12:55 AM
  #91
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People seem to forget that although I agree we could use more depth for pitching, guys like Cecil, Mcgowan, Hutchison, and Drabek are all capable of filling in if a starter gets hurt. I know they're more like 7-8 guys than #6 guys, but with 4 of them or so, I think we'd be fine even if we don't get more depth for pitching.

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11-17-2012, 12:57 AM
  #92
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People seem to forget that although I agree we could use more depth for pitching, guys like Cecil, Mcgowan, Hutchison, and Drabek are all capable of filling in if a starter gets hurt. I know they're more like 7-8 guys than #6 guys, but with 4 of them or so, I think we'd be fine even if we don't get more depth for pitching.
Is Cecil released? Can't remember if he has been or if that is just what everyone else wants.

The other 3 I believe are all currently injured, not sure on their return timetables.

We have guys who COULD fill in, it's just that they are injured and if we get into any more injuries we don't have much depth due to the injuries haha.

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11-17-2012, 12:58 AM
  #93
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What would it cost to get Logan Morrison from the Marlins? Probably not a lot considering our last trade

But seriously, what would sane management ask for him?
I'm not sure they'd ask for much. His last couple of seasons have been pretty bad, and he's not much of an upgrade over Lind.

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People seem to forget that although I agree we could use more depth for pitching, guys like Cecil, Mcgowan, Hutchison, and Drabek are all capable of filling in if a starter gets hurt. I know they're more like 7-8 guys than #6 guys, but with 4 of them or so, I think we'd be fine even if we don't get more depth for pitching.
Considering the fact that Hutchison and Drabek are coming off Tommy-John surgery, highly unlikely. So there goes two of the guys, and McGowan has not done anything to show that he's capable of pitching in the big leagues, mostly because he's been injured for the longest time.


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Is Cecil released? Can't remember if he has been or if that is just what everyone else wants.

The other 3 I believe are all currently injured, not sure on their return timetables.

We have guys who COULD fill in, it's just that they are injured and if we get into any more injuries we don't have much depth due to the injuries haha.
Cecil is in the pen.

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11-17-2012, 01:00 AM
  #94
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People seem to forget that although I agree we could use more depth for pitching, guys like Cecil, Mcgowan, Hutchison, and Drabek are all capable of filling in if a starter gets hurt. I know they're more like 7-8 guys than #6 guys, but with 4 of them or so, I think we'd be fine even if we don't get more depth for pitching.
Hutch and Drabek are out for the year, and McGowan is just a wildcard now. Can't rely on him as one of your backup starters.

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11-17-2012, 01:12 AM
  #95
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Zaun is a moron who has an overinflated ego. His comments today on the FAN590 were laughable. Zaun was not well liked as a player as he is a prickly redneck who was outspoken but not bright enough to make any valid points. I like listening to him talk about the art of catching and dealing with pitchers but when he speaks about anything else he sounds like the baseball version of Don Cherry.
So you're saying Zaun was wrong about Farrell?

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11-17-2012, 01:15 AM
  #96
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I'd love Villanueva back as the swingman. Maybe he'll realize how delusional his demands are as the off season wears on and he can be had at an appropriate price. Laffey would be another sensible option if he would agree to a minor league contract, same with Litsch. Would have to wait on those guys as obviously they want to test the waters first.

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11-17-2012, 01:33 AM
  #97
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So you're saying Zaun was wrong about Farrell?
I can't say that I know whether there were internal problems with Farrell or not but Zaun is a very ignorant man who simply doesn't understand the finer points of management and player relations.

He is firmly in the corner of AA hiring Matt Williams who was immensely detested by teammates as he is a world class *******. When Bonds was in San Francisco he was the second most hated teammate behind Williams. Zaun is a typical redneck who believes in tough love and ruling with an iron fist. There does seem to be evidence to suggest that Farrell may have been too lenient, but williams is far off on the other side of the spectrum. A quality manager is one who understands how to motivate different personalities and delogates responsibilities without micro managing every little detail. I am afraid that a manager like Williams will end up being a devisive presence and resort to allowing personal feelings dictate important decisions. There are simply too many stars on this team now to have a tyrant at the helm. What is required is a manager who can handle the stars and teach the youngsters.

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11-17-2012, 02:43 AM
  #98
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Batting order ideas

vs. LH pitching

Reyes
Lawrie
Cabrera
Bautista
Encarnacion
JPA/d'Arnaud
Rasmus
JPA/d'Arnaud
Izturis/Bonifacio

vs. RH pitching

Reyes
Rasmus
Cabrera
Bautista
Encarnacion
Lawrie
Lind
JPA/d'Arnaud
Izturis/Bonifacio

I like the idea of sandwiching Rasmus and Lawrie between the two switch hitters at the top of the lineup where they will see plenty of fastballs while facing opposite armed starters. If Lind starts well he can be moved ahead of Lawrie in the RHP lineup in order to break up the LH/RH batters more evenly.

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11-17-2012, 04:31 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Batting order ideas

vs. LH pitching

Reyes
Lawrie
Cabrera
Bautista
Encarnacion
JPA/d'Arnaud
Rasmus
JPA/d'Arnaud
Izturis/Bonifacio

vs. RH pitching

Reyes
Rasmus
Cabrera
Bautista
Encarnacion
Lawrie
Lind
JPA/d'Arnaud
Izturis/Bonifacio

I like the idea of sandwiching Rasmus and Lawrie between the two switch hitters at the top of the lineup where they will see plenty of fastballs while facing opposite armed starters. If Lind starts well he can be moved ahead of Lawrie in the RHP lineup in order to break up the LH/RH batters more evenly.
I'd have Reyes and Melky 1-2 all season long, especially vs RHP. This is what I'd do all year-

Reyes
Cabrera
Bautista
EE
Lawrie
Rasmus
Lind/(hopefully Gomes)
Izturis/Bonafacio
D'arnaud(hopefully he's ready)

That's the lineup I'd run out every day, I'm assuming of course that we sign Gomes, there really needs to be a platoon situation with Lind and Gomes absolutely mashes LHP. Ideally, you'd like the DH position, given our two best hitters are right handed, to be a big left handed power bat, but Lind and Gomes in a platoon situation can still provide good offense, somewhere in the ballpark of a .850 OPS is a reasonable expectation. I don't like the idea of having 3 straight right handed bats so maybe switch Lawrie with someone but still, The top 4 shouldn't be touched. The lineup really is molding into a legit scary offense. Two switch hitters who get on base and one who provides plenty of speed, big time power at 3 and 4, and a good mix of power, switch hitting ability and speed from 5-9.

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11-17-2012, 05:29 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
potentially - projectedly

for example:
swisher doesnt count .272 24 93 ?
you dont think texiera could ? (.250 24 84 450ab)

5 guys on chicago hit 25+ homers

who on toronto could besides EE and JB
rasmus or lind ?

i doubt it

we need another big bat
If you disagree with the premise of the question (which both your original answer and this one make clear), the answer should have been one which pointed out the flaw in the original question. Given the original question, the answer is 0. Of course, the original question uses arbitrary limits to make the answer 0.

Not only that, the other problem is who cares?

What some don't understand is that AA has essentially built the moneyball lineup. We have two mashers, but we also have guys with speed who get on. There is a decent chance we could lead the league in runs scored and only have 2 such players (because while homers are important and automatically score all runners on base plus the hitter, the feast or famine approach of the past has led to a lot of Ks when a single would score at least one runner). The reason RBIs don't matter is because while you expect your mashers to contribute a lot of them, depending on who gets on, you could easily see a guy like Reyes or Melky (or Lawrie) have a ton of them without many homers.

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