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Derrick Pouliot | Defenseman | Portland (WHL) | 1st Round, 8th overall

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Old
11-16-2012, 04:15 PM
  #501
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
We already had and have better players in top 9 roles, though, which makes his loss completely understandable and unremarkable.
I for sure took his waiving harder than I should have, but I just respected where he came from, how he fought his way up, then got waived without being given a chance. Just seemed like a bad message from the org to me, especially given their weak fwd crops. But I did say it wouldn't set this org back though..

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For the record, I think you're as good a prospect guy as any around here.
I give that up to IHWR. We both at least agree on Harrington. That could be good or bad...

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He doesn't need to play off, just push him with decent leverage or tie him up without trying to go for an all-or-nothing hit. I don't want to micro-analyze too much, but he obviously needs some refinements.
Well it isn't like he was doing that all game. I'm just saying I like seeing him attempt that kind of hit because it isn't easy to body fwds when you are on your heels and they have the fwd momentum (trust me I speak from experience on that and missed way more than connected).

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Well, I don't think the the pivot was in any position at that point to check his man effectively. As a result, the guy just walked in on a couple static defensemen and sniped one.
Khokhlachev had the puck (I believe) and cut across DP, who correctly stayed in his lane and passed him off to MR.

McNeil was coming down the slot and never looked behind to grab the late man... Instead he kept going to the post to cover the back door I assume, but DP was at home doing that. That goal was completely on McNeil.

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Nah man. He was skating with Kapustin facing his own net without the wide base necessary to body a guy off the puck, so he lost his balance and the puck ended up in his net. It's right here in the Adam Lowry vid at :58:

http://www.subwaysuperseries.ca/

You're never going to muscle anyone off the puck with that base. Ever.
They show it so fast it's hard to see, but you are probably right. I thought he got tossed worse than he did, but I actually feel better now because it looks like he caught his skate and lost his balance.

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Pouliot's transition game once he had a little space was good last night, my problems were with his strength, defensive postures, and puck management under pressure. For the record, he looked like he managed the puck very well in the game I went to between Portland and Brandon, but the Russians are obviously a step up and they were forechecking hard yesterday.
You are just getting spoiled watching Harrington.

I was pretty happy with everything but his strength, but I already knew that going in, so no surprise there.

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11-16-2012, 04:38 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I for sure took his waiving harder than I should have, but I just respected where he came from, how he fought his way up, then got waived without being given a chance. Just seemed like a bad message from the org to me, especially given their weak fwd crops. But I did say it wouldn't set this org back though..
Fair enough.

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I give that up to IHWR. We both at least agree on Harrington. That could be good or bad...
There's a fair number on the board who take the time to watch and have a good eye for talent. I wouldn't say anyone has distinguished themselves enough to be an infallible authority though, haha.

Harrington's the definition of a guy people have to see to appreciate. The more this board sees him play, the more reluctant they'll be to dismiss him as trade fodder depth.

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Well it isn't like he was doing that all game. I'm just saying I like seeing him attempt that kind of hit because it isn't easy to body fwds when you are on your heels and they have the fwd momentum (trust me I speak from experience on that and missed way more than connected).
I appreciate the gusto, even if I'd like a little better discretion.

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Khokhlachev had the puck (I believe) and cut across DP, who correctly stayed in his lane and passed him off to MR.

McNeil was coming down the slot and never looked behind to grab the late man... Instead he kept going to the post to cover the back door I assume, but DP was at home doing that. That goal was completely on McNeil.
To be honest, I just have a vision in my head of Khoko curling away and then passing it off to the goal-scorer who walked in on Rielly and Pouliot with nobody else anywhere near him (or them). McNeill may have been closer than I remember, but it sure seemed like the scorer had all day.

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You are just getting spoiled watching Harrington.

I was pretty happy with everything but his strength, but I already knew that going in, so no surprise there
Could be, haha. DP did a lot of things well that I had seen before, but I was expecting him to be more refined against high-end competition given his draft status. I guess the similarly cruddy performances of Rielly and Dumba yesterday should ease that disappointment some.

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11-16-2012, 04:41 PM
  #503
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Could be, haha. DP did a lot of things well that I had seen before, but I was expecting him to be more refined against high-end competition given his draft status. I guess the similarly cruddy performances of Rielly and Dumba yesterday should ease that disappointment some.
Well like I said, put him on team Russia last night and people would be doing a circle jerk.

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11-16-2012, 04:52 PM
  #504
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Well like I said, put him on team Russia last night and people would be doing a circle jerk.
exactly

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11-16-2012, 10:22 PM
  #505
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If Matt Dumba hadn't gone the pick before I'd have said him, he's going to be really good. At the draft web it was rumored that the Isles offered their entire draft (including the 4th overall) for the 2nd overall I thought Columbus was crazy for not taking the deal and drafting Dumba.

Forsberg would've been my pick. Grigorenko might be a slightly better prospect but he's also more likely to follow in the footsteps of a Radulov so that's a legitimate knock against him. It's a shame you have to account for that but that's the reason he slipped.

Forsberg was exactly the kind of prospect we need not to replace Staal, but to replace the top 6 winger we've never developed. When the Pens made the deal with Carolina I was positive they were going to pick Forsberg since they just acquired Sutter (to replace Staal as the 3C) and Dumoulin (to satisfy the organizations ***** for defensive prospects). I was on the building when the trade was announced and it was electric. It was instantly deflated when the Pens picked Pouliot. I've got a good story of who I was hanging with from the time the deal was announced to when the pick was made. DM me sometime and I'll elaborate but it's not a story for the boards unfortunately.

Back to Forsberg, he really only lacks two things right now: elite speed and consistency. His skating is above average but he doesn't have that fifth gear you want from a top 6 winger with such a high hockey IQ and offensive skills. His consistency is probably the main knock on him by his detractors, but that's largely from playing in Sweden where it's a guessing game which young players will be given an offensive role. He's looked great this year and I think he's silencing a lot of his critics.

Trouba's too one dimensional for me. A lot of people compare him to Chris Pronger but I don't see anywhere near that offensive upside. It's a lot easier to find defensive defensemen after the first round and to me it's like picking a shutdown 3rd line center with a top 10 pick.

I said it in another thread but I thought Maatta would've been a decent pick at #8. He was a fantastic pick at #22. Cody Ceci was another guy I really liked that I thought could've gone top 10. He has a Shea Weber heavy clapper at age 18 (clocked recently at around 102 mph) and is one of the better rushing defensemen prospects I've seen in a while. He needs to work on his game in his own end though.

Forsberg would've been my pick but what do I know. Pouliot's still a really good prospect but he has a lot more developing to do.
Dumba was my pick also. That being said, that guy is as much of a project as DP is. Only difference between the two is that Dumba hits like a train.

That 8th pick was weird, because I really wasn't in love with any player sitting there. I thought, even when the trade went down, that I would have liked to move back 4-6 spots, pick up a 2nd rounder, and then probably draft Pouliot there if Buffalo didn't snag him with one of their picks, which is what was rumored to be true if we didn't pick him.

And DM that story. I'd love to hear it.

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11-17-2012, 12:30 AM
  #506
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And DM that story. I'd love to hear it.
Same here IHWR, I too would love to hear that cool story from the draft in June

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11-17-2012, 12:37 AM
  #507
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Pouliot finished with Zero points & -2 against the Kamloops Blazers.

What is going on??? I hope yesterday night's game against the Russians didn't get to him.

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11-17-2012, 01:24 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Pouliot finished with Zero points & -2 against the Kamloops Blazers.

What is going on??? I hope yesterday night's game against the Russians didn't get to him.
+/- is the most worthless statistic in all of hockey. Consider guys get pluses for stepping on the ice (or minuses) and can avoid a minus for stepping off; it's worthless to judge. Especially if [said player] had nothing to do with the goal for or against.

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11-17-2012, 06:25 AM
  #509
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plus/minus is pretty much worthless if you didn't watch the games.

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11-17-2012, 07:10 AM
  #510
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Same here IHWR, I too would love to hear that cool story from the draft in June
3rded! (Not a word). I love insider draft stories!

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11-17-2012, 09:05 AM
  #511
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3rded! (Not a word). I love insider draft stories!
I love insider stuff too, but it's tough posting it here. I'm related to a former star player, plus another person that still does work behind the bench. I've meet tons of players and GM's. But, here on HF they always want to know where it came from and I will not give up a name from a private conversation. You could end up causing a lot of damage. The few times I have posted something like that, I said the same thing, PM me.

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11-17-2012, 10:16 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Pouliot finished with Zero points & -2 against the Kamloops Blazers.

What is going on??? I hope yesterday night's game against the Russians didn't get to him.
What a piece of ****.

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11-17-2012, 10:17 AM
  #513
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I love insider stuff too, but it's tough posting it here. I'm related to a former star player, plus another person that still does work behind the bench. I've meet tons of players and GM's. But, here on HF they always want to know where it came from and I will not give up a name from a private conversation. You could end up causing a lot of damage. The few times I have posted something like that, I said the same thing, PM me.
Oh I know. I just wanted him to Direct Message me.

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11-17-2012, 10:25 AM
  #514
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What a piece of ****.
You never let me down.

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11-17-2012, 11:58 PM
  #515
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How ridiculous is it that we have 6 defensemen in our top 6 prospects. That doesn't seem smart to me.

And yeah it's debateable with Bennett...my point just sounds better if I slot him at #7 for right now.

I guess I don't see the high ceiling with DP. I see a Goligoski type future for him as probably the #4 guy on the second pairing who plays on the top PP unit. I think it's unlikely that he develops into a top pairing guy...especially with guys like Letang and Morrow in the organization who fill a similar role but with an established physical game and better shot.

And I'm not trying to **** on Pouliot as a prospect. He's a great guy to have in our system but he has some hurdles to overcome before he even becomes an NHLer, let alone realize his super high ceiling that I'm not convinced he has.

I said it at right after the draft but our two first round picks reeked of our organization getting a little too cute. Drafting defensemen from the same teams as our top two defensemen picks from the year before just seems to easy. It's something dumb I'd do in EHM.

It's too bad the Staal trade (which i agree wasn't made with any player in mind, DP was just their BPA) happened minutes before the Pouliot pick because I guarantee no one on these boards would even have him on our radar. I talked to a handful of scouts about Pouliot after the first round (perks of knowing where the NHL HQ hotel is during the draft...just find a few of the local bars and you'll meet some of the heavyweights) and not only did most of them have Pouliot as a late first rounder to and early second rounder but they called the Pens 8th overall pick the worst of the first round. No joke, other team's scouts were laughing at the pick, so for as much as we trust the Pens professionals and their opinion, I trust other team's scouts as well and they hated the pick.

But that's the thing, there's no consensus on prospects and since they are drafted so young a lot can change between draft day and when they finally crack a lineup.
This doesn't make me feel very good.

I still can't believe that Shero took DP at 8 with Fors and Grigs on the board.

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11-18-2012, 01:14 AM
  #516
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1A and 0+/- tonight


now 21 pts in 22 games but its a little deceiving since they're destroying all of their opponents & all of their D are collecting lots of points this seaon.

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11-18-2012, 02:57 AM
  #517
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Pouliot finished with Zero points & -2 against the Kamloops Blazers.

What is going on??? I hope yesterday night's game against the Russians didn't get to him.
He's a bust. Let's all move on.

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plus/minus is pretty much worthless if you didn't watch the games.
Meh. Team stats given out on an individual basis are always going to be worthless in my eyes.

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11-18-2012, 11:41 AM
  #518
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This doesn't make me feel very good.

I still can't believe that Shero took DP at 8 with Fors and Grigs on the board.
I dunno, if these guys were such obvious picks then why didn't the two teams that picked after the Pens swoop down on them?

Maybe all 30 teams didn't have Pouliot in the top 10, but it doesn't take 30 teams. The Penguins nabbed Goligoski in the 2nd round because, as I recall, they were concerned that another team was high on him and didn't wanna wait until the 3rd round even though he was expected to fall.

For the record, in my not-very-informed pre-draft rankings I made myself I had Grigorenko 2nd, Forsberg in the teens and Pouliot in the mid 20s. I think the reason Grigorenko fell is because of off-ice and attitude concerns, and there must have been something to that considering he was obviously one of the top-3 talents available (if not #1).

Bob McKenzie had Maatta ranked 10th and Pouliot 17th.. And they were essentially picked in reverse positions in reality. So I'm just happy we got a top-10 ranked d-man and a 17th ranked d-man with two first rounders and leave it at that.

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11-18-2012, 11:50 AM
  #519
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I dunno, if these guys were such obvious picks then why didn't the two teams that picked after the Pens swoop down on them?

Maybe all 30 teams didn't have Pouliot in the top 10, but it doesn't take 30 teams. The Penguins nabbed Goligoski in the 2nd round because, as I recall, they were concerned that another team was high on him and didn't wanna wait until the 3rd round even though he was expected to fall.

For the record, in my not-very-informed pre-draft rankings I made myself I had Grigorenko 2nd, Forsberg in the teens and Pouliot in the mid 20s. I think the reason Grigorenko fell is because of off-ice and attitude concerns, and there must have been something to that considering he was obviously one of the top-3 talents available (if not #1).

Bob McKenzie had Maatta ranked 10th and Pouliot 17th.. And they were essentially picked in reverse positions in reality. So I'm just happy we got a top-10 ranked d-man and a 17th ranked d-man with two first rounders and leave it at that.
Character seems to be exceptionally high on the priority list for our scouting staff.

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11-18-2012, 12:00 PM
  #520
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Character seems to be exceptionally high on the priority list for our scouting staff.
And it should be. One rotten apple spoils the bunch. You can see the ebbs and flows of the Capitals organization with Semin there. You can also see how AO's personality dictates how that locker room is. You don't need that, regardless of how talented a player is. Is and unnecessary headache.

Let's use Semin as an example for Grigorenko...he scores 30-40 goals a year, but is he helping the team really when members of the team come out, on the record, and state how he's just a completely **** teammate?


I loved Grigorenko's skill, and I'd be completely lying if I didn't think that it'd be awesome watching him here. When I think about drafting him rationally though, it makes less and less sense. Starting with the fact that he'd have to switch positions here, and we know how people feel about a center being moved to wing around these parts.

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11-18-2012, 01:11 PM
  #521
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No one is asking but I had a feelin that Grigorenko would go 10th overall to Tampa prior to the draft (although I had him ranked higher...see below). The Lightning have a recent history of not being scared to select Russians and ultimately did so later in the first round anyways.

Forsberg on the other hand...I thought he wouldn't get past Toronto but for whatever reason they had Rielly ranked as their top prospect in the draft, which is ridiculous. Not to say he isn't a great prospect because he totally is but anyone who didn't have Yakupov as the far and away best player in the 2012 draft shouldn't be listened to. That's what was so funny about those rumors about the Oilers passing on Yak to select Murray 1st overall because of their need for a defenseman and the plethora of young super talented forwards they already possessed. Yakupov to me is as good or better than any first overall pick since John Tavares (so basically Hall or RNH). Passing on him to take Murray (who probably won't even be the best defensemen out of this draft but was at the time and probably still is the best defensive prospect in the draft) would have been a giant blunder.

My top 20 from before the draft:
1) Yakupov
2) Murray
3) Galchenyuk
4) Forsberg
5) Dumba
6) Rielly
7) Reinhart
8) Grigorenko
9) Ceci
10) Maatta
11) Vasilevski
12) Faksa
13) Teravainen
14) Trouba
15) Koekkoek
16) Girgensens
17) Collberg
18) Lindholm
19) Hertl
20) Subban

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11-18-2012, 05:13 PM
  #522
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The 2 reason that the Pens didn't pick Grigs were because of what happened with Espesito, and the Pens were very familiar with Pouliot. Grigs has a bunch of the same negative qualities that Espesito has.

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11-18-2012, 05:49 PM
  #523
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The 2 reason that the Pens didn't pick Grigs were because of what happened with Espesito, and the Pens were very familiar with Pouliot. Grigs has a bunch of the same negative qualities that Espesito has.
Uhh...no he doesn't.

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11-18-2012, 06:36 PM
  #524
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The 2 reason that the Pens didn't pick Grigs were because of what happened with Espesito, and the Pens were very familiar with Pouliot. Grigs has a bunch of the same negative qualities that Espesito has.
Also, I love that you have no confidence in spelling Grigorenko so you just put "Grigs". I deduced this from your inability to spell Esposito correctly.

Add this together with a crazy comparison between Grigs and Espesito and you get something that isn't even worth skimming.

Esposito had question marks about his hockey sense and whether or not his junior success was a product of playing with better prospects (namely Radulov). He was also a little undersized.

Grigorenko's concerns have more to do with some perceived character issues along with being a nationality that has a history of bolting to a different league. He also didn't interview well at the combine from what I've read.

If anything, Grigorenko probably has more similar concerns to another prospect who dropped during Esposito's draft and that's Cheropanov.

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11-18-2012, 06:49 PM
  #525
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It's probably BS but there was also a rumor that Grigorenko was older than he claimed.

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