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Best playoff performer to not win the Conn Smythe?

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Old
11-16-2012, 01:49 PM
  #1
I Hate Chris Butler
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Best playoff performer to not win the Conn Smythe?

I'll set a simple criteria: 1) must be retired and 2) must have won the Cup.

I get tired of all the Pronger love on this site, but he was/is awesome in the playoffs. Unfortunately for Pronger, there was someone better on his team when he won it in Niedermayer.

So who is it? Some names I thought of:

Jarri Kurri
Dominik Hasek
Denis Potvin
Peter Forsberg
Phil Esposito
Doug Gilmour
Theo Fleury
Paul Coffey

Who am I missing?

I gotta think once they retire, Brodeur and Jagr are going to be up there.

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Old
11-16-2012, 01:51 PM
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Well Rocket Richard of course.
But since the advent of the trophy I'll nominate Potvin as well.

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11-16-2012, 02:11 PM
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Doug Gilmour and Denis Potvin

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11-16-2012, 02:28 PM
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Potvin, Esposito, Fedorov, and Coffey stick out to me. There wasn't much Esposito or Coffey could do given who they played with, while Potvin and Fedorov each lost the award when they should have won it.

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11-16-2012, 02:38 PM
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Crosby.

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Old
11-16-2012, 04:47 PM
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I thought Pronger was the best player in the postseason both in 06 and 07. More so 06, but he was still the best defencemen on Anaheim that year.

Fedorov had 4 strong postseasons where Detroit got to the Finals. Probably wins 97 if it happened again today. I watching game 4 of the 98 Finals and he was all over the place.

Forsberg missed out on the last two rounds of 01, but they don't even make it to that point without him. And he was a monster in 02 despite losing to Detroit in game 7 of the conference finals. So he really never had a chance because his team or he personally never made it to the Finals during his best years. 96 was obviously Sakic all the way.

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11-16-2012, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster View Post
I'll set a simple criteria: 1) must be retired and 2) must have won the Cup.

I get tired of all the Pronger love on this site, but he was/is awesome in the playoffs. Unfortunately for Pronger, there was someone better on his team when he won it in Niedermayer.

So who is it? Some names I thought of:

Jarri Kurri
Dominik Hasek
Denis Potvin
Peter Forsberg
Phil Esposito
Doug Gilmour
Theo Fleury
Paul Coffey

Who am I missing?

I gotta think once they retire, Brodeur and Jagr are going to be up there.
Does this include players that went to the finals?

Kurri was never going to win a Conn Smythe playing with Oilers.

Of the list, the 3 most deserving are Hasek, Potvin and Coffey.

Forsberg was always great but Roy and Sakic both outperformed him when the Avalanche won both Stanley Cups.

Bure was deserving in 1994.

Jagr could have won it in 1999 had he not gotten injured (he was already playing hurt all season long with numerous injuries).

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Old
11-16-2012, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Potvin, Esposito, Fedorov, and Coffey stick out to me. There wasn't much Esposito or Coffey could do given who they played with, while Potvin and Fedorov each lost the award when they should have won it.
Fedorov had only had one true great playoff run. He was below PPG twice out of his 4 20+ pts playoffs.

Yzerman and Lidstrom were always more important to the Red Wings than Fedorov was in the playoffs.

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11-16-2012, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Fedorov had only had one true great playoff run. He was below PPG twice out of his 4 20+ pts playoffs.

Yzerman and Lidstrom were always more important to the Red Wings than Fedorov was in the playoffs.
In 95 and 97 Fedorov was easily their best player.

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11-16-2012, 06:05 PM
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livewell68
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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
In 95 and 97 Fedorov was easily their best player.
When I said Fedorov had one great playoff run, I did mean 1995. He wasn't Detroit's best player in 1997. Yzerman won the Conn Smythe that season for good reason.

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11-16-2012, 06:07 PM
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Denis Potvin

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11-16-2012, 06:21 PM
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If we are talking about career I think it is important to note that both Howe and Richard have what is commonly agreed to be at least a couple retro-Conn Smythes. Bobby Hull never won and you'd think he would have in 1971 had the Hawks won.

I agree with Phil Esposito, there isn't much more the guy could have done in his career in the postseason. He led the playoffs in points three times and when push comes to shove it isn't absurd to say he deserved it over Orr in 1970.

Agree about Potvin. 1981 is one of those years we often talk about when it went to Goring. Not everyone is sold on that and Bossy and his 35 points or Potvin and his 25 points always seemed more logical. But either way the only player from the "big 4" of the Isles to never win the Smythe which is strange because he is often cited as most important player of that dynasty.

Agree about Kurri and Coffey. Gretzky was going to win it in 1985, there is no doubt there, but the performance those guys coupled in that year would have made them winners any other time.

How about Glenn Anderson? Say what you want but the guy was money in the bank, scored 93 playoff goals and all 5 Cups he won with Edmonton he was critical to their success. 1987 was his best bet to win it.

Other names have already been mentioned but how much longer before Daniel Briere gets mentioned? He scored 30 points in 2010, lost and the Smythe went to Toews instead.

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11-16-2012, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
When I said Fedorov had one great playoff run, I did mean 1995. He wasn't Detroit's best player in 1997. Yzerman won the Conn Smythe that season for good reason.
97 when Vernon won the Smythe.

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11-16-2012, 06:29 PM
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How about Glenn Anderson? Say what you want but the guy was money in the bank, scored 93 playoff goals and all 5 Cups he won with Edmonton he was critical to their success. 1987 was his best bet to win it.
He was great but never Smythe great IMO. He was never anymore than the 3rd best player on a cup winning team and even that's being generous.

Quote:
Other names have already been mentioned but how much longer before Daniel Briere gets mentioned? He scored 30 points in 2010, lost and the Smythe went to Toews instead.
This is a good one. However I think Philly wins a cup in the next few years, and Briere would have a shot a a Smythe. Well see what happens.

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11-16-2012, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
Crosby.
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Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster View Post
I'll set a simple criteria: 1) must be retired and 2) must have won the Cup.
At least read the OP.

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11-16-2012, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Fedorov had only had one true great playoff run. He was below PPG twice out of his 4 20+ pts playoffs.

Yzerman and Lidstrom were always more important to the Red Wings than Fedorov was in the playoffs.
Fedorov was more important in the first two playoff runs than either Yzerman or Lidstrom, and he deserved the Conn Smythe in 1997.

Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
When I said Fedorov had one great playoff run, I did mean 1995. He wasn't Detroit's best player in 1997. Yzerman won the Conn Smythe that season for good reason.
Fedorov was definitely better than Yzerman in 1997. Detroit's best offensive and defensive forward easily. Yzerman was better in 1998, when he actually did win the trophy.

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11-17-2012, 02:48 AM
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Maybe not the best, per se, but when I saw this post I immediately thought of Montreal having the Conn Smythe awarded to players from teams they beat in the Finals three different times: Crozier, Hall and Leach.
So who'd have been the Habs that would have been Conn Smythe winners if they'd gone to the winning team?
1966- JC Tremblay, led the Canadiens in playoff scoring at a better than a point a game. 2 G, 9 A in 10 games
1968- Tough luck for the Gumper that Hall got the call.
Hall- W/L: 8/10, GAA: 2.43, Save %: .916
Worsley- W/L: 11/0, GAA: 1.88, Save %: .930
Obviously Gump had a superior team, and the Blues aren't in it without Hall, but man, those numbers by Worsley are outstanding.
1976 - Ken Dryden. W/L : 12/1, GAA: 1.92, Save %: .929. Looking at those stats reminds one of just what a tear Leach was on. He really was just about the only player putting the puck past Dryden that playoffs. Islanders did put four past him for his only loss, but Dryden's shutting the door otherwise, only 21 goals surrendered in those 12 wins, maintaining that consistency that Bowman so loved.

Oilers fans, whose the MVP in '87 for Edmonton, if it hadn't been awarded to Hextall? Devils fans, who gets the call in '03?

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Old
11-17-2012, 03:01 AM
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did i miss prongers retirement?

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11-17-2012, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
Crosby.
What does your crystal ball say about 2020 Cup Winner?

Crosby had one great playoffs and that is it so far. He is not in the conversation yet. Since he has career still going and he falls behind on many more better candidates.

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11-17-2012, 07:53 AM
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Crosby had one great playoffs and that is it so far.
He's had three great playoffs, 90 points, and we're in a thread in which someone named Pavel Bure. Crosby's certainly in the conversation more than Bure, even if he were to retire today. Hell, he's in the conversation more than Fleury (79 points), and he was name-dropped in the OP.

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11-17-2012, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
He's had three great playoffs, 90 points, and we're in a thread in which someone named Pavel Bure. Crosby's certainly in the conversation more than Bure, even if he were to retire today. Hell, he's in the conversation more than Fleury (79 points), and he was name-dropped in the OP.
I totally missed his first final appearance.

So he has two great one's. I kind of feel that 13 games is a bit too little if he would be considered conn smythe worthy.

So basically two times he has had post season that might have gotten him to Smythe in some else year. Twice better than i thought.

My bad.

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11-17-2012, 08:08 AM
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I kind of feel that 13 games is a bit too little if he would be considered conn smythe worthy.
Back in the day, Jean Beliveau could win the inaugural Conn Smythe Trophy in just 13 games!

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11-17-2012, 09:02 AM
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Back in the day, Jean Beliveau could win the inaugural Conn Smythe Trophy in just 13 games!
Yeah, he did.

I just opened up Wikipedia page about Beliveau and found out he did not wan't to play for the Habs at first. But since Canadiens owned his rights the only place he could play as a pro would be Montreal. He played as an amateur at Quebec ace's.

Montreal Canadiens countered by buying the whole league so Beliveau had to play for them. Is this rumor or truth?

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Old
11-17-2012, 09:08 AM
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Other names have already been mentioned but how much longer before Daniel Briere gets mentioned? He scored 30 points in 2010, lost and the Smythe went to Toews instead.
Hopefully, a little while longer. Danny was maybe third most important figure on that squad - the other two being Pronger and Richards.

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11-17-2012, 09:26 AM
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Gretzky in 1984. Not only did he dominate the playoffs, but he scored the two most important goals of the Stanley Cup clinching game. Some would argue 1987 as well.

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