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The Star: Maple Leafs might be better off without a season

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Old
11-17-2012, 10:40 AM
  #26
Budsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Those contracts will be gone whether they play or not.
That's quite true but to acquire Getzlaf and Perry, would cost us draft choices and or Prospects, if they actually became available.

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11-17-2012, 10:44 AM
  #27
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Generally speaking too much time off is bad for older players.

Sometimes they never regain thier form.The older the team,the worse the strike is for them unless they have drafted well.The bad thing for the Leafs is the huge Jays trade now puts the pressure on Burke to make another bad trade aka Luongo.Kurvers for Niedermayer,Courtnall for Kordic,Clark for Luongo,Nolan for Boyes,Rask for Raycroft.The tradition will now continue as Leaf fans once again pressure the GM to sell the future for a washed up overpaid vet.Im from Vancouver, and have watched Luongo.Vancouver made him look better than he is and other teams have figured him out.Luongo does not put this team into the playoffs and if we miss,we lose that trade no matter what...again.

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11-17-2012, 10:44 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budsfan View Post
That's quite true but to acquire Getzlaf and Perry, would cost us draft choices and or Prospects, if they actually became available.
I'd be good with that.

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Old
11-17-2012, 10:46 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
Again people are talking like a top 5 pick is some prize. I'd rather make the playoffs and have an exciting season. Top 5 picks don't do it for me.
Morgan Rielly is a top 5 pick, and represents a brighter future for the Leafs as the result of his selection in the entry draft.

Remember when he is leading the Leafs to victory that he doesn't do much for you.

The best thing that is happening for Leaf Nation due to the teams struggles is the bonus of the prospect pool being built up with high selection(s) as a result of the fans enduring the losing. Cox's point is that the lockout is allowing the prospect pool to develop while the NHLers are locked out, which is going to be a long-term benefit.

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11-17-2012, 10:48 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 View Post
Sometimes they never regain thier form.The older the team,the worse the strike is for them unless they have drafted well.The bad thing for the Leafs is the huge Jays trade now puts the pressure on Burke to make another bad trade aka Luongo.Kurvers for Niedermayer,Courtnall for Kordic,Clark for Luongo,Nolan for Boyes,Rask for Raycroft.The tradition will now continue as Leaf fans once again pressure the GM to sell the future for a washed up overpaid vet.Im from Vancouver, and have watched Luongo.Vancouver made him look better than he is and other teams have figured him out.Luongo does not put this team into the playoffs and if we miss,we lose that trade no matter what...again.
I often wonder if people believe what they post or just do it for the reaction it will receive. (For some it's definately the latter)

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11-17-2012, 10:50 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Either way you keep your seats.

If you let them keep the money they add 5% to your Account once the season resumes.
That's a pretty good deal. Probably safe to say that if you have decent Leafs season tickets, you're not strapped for cash so might as well get a better return.

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Old
11-17-2012, 11:16 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
That's a pretty good deal. Probably safe to say that if you have decent Leafs season tickets, you're not strapped for cash so might as well get a better return.
We let them keep it. Going to have to pay it back at some point anyway.

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11-17-2012, 11:43 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
If this team gets a top pick next year, along with what a stud Rielly looks like and all that cap room, can anyone say our future looks so terrible?
I can think of a few people around here who could and would.

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If the league uses the same method as last time, the Leafs have a ~6% chance of getting the first overall pick. If they finish 5th last like last season, I believe it's something like ~8% chance at first overall.
The problem is:
  • If we'd finish in the bottom 5 this season, we'd have like a 99% chance of picking in the top 5.
  • If the season's cancelled, and they utilize the system they used last lock out, even assuming a set of evenly weighted balls (big assumption), we'd have a 70% chance of NOT picking in the top 5. If weighted balls are used, we'd have even a greater chance of picking outside the top 5. Let's face it, there's no way the Bettmen would throw the Leafs a bone.

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Old
11-17-2012, 12:34 PM
  #34
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Though Cox may have raised some valid points (I don't bother reading his articles), I think most of us would agree that the hockey world would be a better place if Cox weren't in it.

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11-17-2012, 12:38 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Budsfan View Post
If this season were to be erased, the contracts to Tim Connolly, Joffrey Lupul, Matthew Lombardi, Clarke MacArthur, Tyler Bozak and David Steckel would expire, making them unrestricted free agents.
We also lose the ability to trade them.

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11-17-2012, 01:18 PM
  #36
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We also lose the ability to trade them.
They would also expire if the season was on or not. I don't get what point people try to make when they say that all those contracts would expire. They would expire regardless.

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11-17-2012, 01:27 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The Leafs will be 1 of only 4 teams with 3 balls if they do the same system.

I feel that is a better chance than if they play. Hell, they were a playoff team last year for as long as they could have a season this year.
Better not do the same system. There should be next to no chance for teams like NYR, LAK, Pittsburgh, Washington, Boston etc. to get a top pick or even top 15.

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Old
11-17-2012, 01:33 PM
  #38
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Well,

Even if there was an NHL season guys like Blacker, Rielly, Colborne, Rynass, Scrivens and company would still be playing in the AHL, so really that IMO is a moot point. The only good thing that comes from losing a season is we have a much better chance at landing the #1 pick this year, but even then the #1 pick wouldn't fix what truly ails this team.

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11-17-2012, 01:40 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Pyromaniac3 View Post
We also lose the ability to trade them.
The big question is, who would trade for those contracts and for what, with the exception of Lupul, these contracts are just Cap eaters and given if maybe Getzlaf, Perry and Backstrom were signed and added to the roster.

Losing Tim Connolly, Joffrey Lupul, Matthew Lombardi, Clarke MacArthur, Tyler Bozak and David Steckel, I'd make that deal any day of the week and bring up Frattin, Gardiner and one or two of the other young guys to fill in, would be a big improvement.

On balance we would have a pretty even Cap Hit switching those players but a much improved Line-up and maybe even have room for another UFA signing.

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Old
11-17-2012, 01:46 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Pyromaniac3 View Post
We also lose the ability to trade them.
Tim Connolly might fetch you a 2nd or 3rd rounder, Lupul holds the most value BUT with his injury history and being a UFA he wouldn't net us much in return either, Lombardi would just get a laugh out of the other GM, etc. I'd be glad to lose all these ballerinas to FA get these embarassment of NHL players off this team, only guy I would keep is Lupul and thats because he actually IS a worthwhile NHL player, the rest can go kick rocks as far as I'm concerned.

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Old
11-17-2012, 01:49 PM
  #41
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the toronto star might be better without a sports section

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Old
11-17-2012, 01:49 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budsfan View Post
The big question is, who would trade for those contracts and for what, with the exception of Lupul, these contracts are just Cap eaters and given if maybe Getzlaf, Perry and Backstrom were signed and added to the roster.

Losing Tim Connolly, Joffrey Lupul, Matthew Lombardi, Clarke MacArthur, Tyler Bozak and David Steckel, I'd make that deal any day of the week and bring up Frattin, Gardiner and one or two of the other young guys to fill in, would be a big improvement.

On balance we would have a pretty even Cap Hit switching those players but a much improved Line-up and maybe even have room for another UFA signing.
Id rather not lose Joffrey Lupul.

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11-17-2012, 01:52 PM
  #43
7even
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This just in: Toronto might be better off without the Star.

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11-17-2012, 01:52 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
Id rather not lose Joffrey Lupul.
Actually he's a favorite of mine too but it would depend on what he would want in his next contract, for us to re-sign him.

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11-17-2012, 01:55 PM
  #45
calcal798
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Actually he's a favorite of mine too but it would depend on what he would want in his next contract, for us to re-sign him.
Depends on the CBA that is determined.

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11-17-2012, 02:04 PM
  #46
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If worst happens and the entire season is lost, I'm not so confident this group involved in the negotiations will get it sorted out before next year unless something drastic happens.

I'm not buying Cox's rationale. One thing Burke has done since coming on board is to improve the development system which players need to get better. I really don't see him rushing Reily or any other prospect through due to there being a season. Also...this Leaf team as it stands, has every chance of finishing in the bottom 5 and getting us another top 5 pick on its own.

Said on a number of threads, if we get hockey this season...quick retool would be better approach for this organization. Leave team "as-is" and let the chips fall where they may. If dont make playoffs...top 10 pick nets a real good player. Sell of some of the existing players like McArthur, Kulemin, Grabovski, Bozak, Liles, Franson, as we have replacements coming and stockpile some picks.

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Old
11-17-2012, 02:04 PM
  #47
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Another typically moronic artical from Cox. His logic is highly flawed.

The only prospect that has been rushed during Burkes time here is Schenn who did play very well in his rookie season and seemed to belong. No one else has been forced onto the Leafs too soon and the classic complaint around here is Kadri isn't getting pushed onto the Leafs. So our biggest benifit is players not playing in the NHL that probabaly would not play in the NHL anyway, and contract expiring that would expire anyway. Brilliant.

Overlooks that those who have recently proven themselves at the NHL level are being forced to play at a lower level removing their chance to play against better compitition thus hindering their development (Frattin, Gardiner), overlooks Kessel loses the chance to keep his momentem going, Riemer loses the chance to regain his form, etc etc. And to top it all off we would lose the chance to negotiate with Lupul before he becomes an FA when otherwise his extention could be sorted during the season.

How can missing a season be good for Riemer, Kessel and JVR ? It's just stupidity. Cox assumes someone would be rushed when Burkes history suggests he is happy to let his prospects develope until they are ready. Last but not least, everyone loses time learning Carlyle's new system and in fact those playing elsewhere are learning someone elses system..Oh, and what of the lottery gods were to hate us and give us the 30th pick, boy that would be great.....



Last edited by BlueBaron: 11-17-2012 at 02:10 PM.
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11-17-2012, 02:05 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
Depends on the CBA that is determined.
That's a good point but I don't think much will change, they will possibly make contracts, have only a 3 to 5 year length but how much teams can pay, will still be determined by the Cap.

The big sticking point is HRR and who gets how much.

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11-17-2012, 02:11 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Budsfan View Post
That's a good point but I don't think much will change, they will possibly make contracts, have only a 3 to 5 year length but how much teams can pay, will still be determined by the Cap.

The big sticking point is HRR and who gets how much.
Yep, at the end of the day I see him getting a 3 year deal with an average around Grabos, maybe more.

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11-17-2012, 02:21 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
Another typically moronic artical from Cox. His logic is highly flawed.

The only prospect that has been rushed during Burkes time here is Schenn who did play very well in his rookie season and seemed to belong. No one else has been forced onto the Leafs too soon and the classic complaint around here is Kadri isn't getting pushed onto the Leafs. So our biggest benifit is players not playing in the NHL that probabaly would not play in the NHL anyway, and contract expiring that would expire anyway. Brilliant.

Overlooks that those who have recently proven themselves at the NHL level are being forced to play at a lower level removing their chance to play against better compitition thus hindering their development (Frattin, Gardiner), overlooks Kessel loses the chance to keep his momentem going, Riemer loses the chance to regain his form, etc etc. And to top it all off we would lose the chance to negotiate with Lupul before he becomes an FA when otherwise his extention could be sorted during the season.

How can missing a season be good for Riemer, Kessel and JVR ? It's just stupidity. Cox assumes someone would be rushed when Burkes history suggests he is happy to let his prospects develope until they are ready. Last but not least, everyone loses time learning Carlyle's new system and in fact those playing elsewhere are learning someone elses system..Oh, and what of the lottery gods were to hate us and give us the 30th pick, boy that would be great.....

Excellent post.

Even Schenn (who some people think was rushed) was already playing on the team for over a month and a half and playing well before Burke joined the organization.

The Leafs are one of the teams positioned to loss the most value to free agency for nothing after this season. Cox's article assume Lupul will just reink but what if he doesn't and we loss him for nothing instead of gaining assets in a trade. Lupul would surely bring at least a late 1st rounder in return at the deadline.

Losing Connolly, Bozak, Lombardi, Steckel and CMac all for nothing could really set this franchise back in terms of organizational assets. It appears that Burke planned on trading most of these players this season as our prospects worked their way into the lineup. Everybody trashes a guy like Connolly but he'd most likely bring a 2nd rounder at the deadline. Same with CMac. Same with Bozak. Lombardi could also potentially bring a 2nd if he got his career back on track this season. That is a lot of extra picks to add to the organization.

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