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Mika Zibanejad is the real deal.

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Old
11-16-2012, 12:14 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post
Big power winger that can go through you or around you, possesses an excellent shot and smooth hands

Zibanejad has shown flashes of Hossa-like ability, just not very often. He needs to be more consistent shift to shift.
The Hossa thing is a reach. There's things Hossa has that Zibanejad would have to show game to game without an issue for it to make sense. Hossa's a guy you can give the puck to and 5 seconds later he'll usually still have it if he wants to.

Zibanejad's more like a Michalek....although he shoots the puck better. Michalek gets the puck and goes straight to the net with it, he can't hold onto the puck for much. That's pretty much what he should be striving for.

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11-16-2012, 12:22 PM
  #552
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The Hossa thing is a reach. There's things Hossa has that Zibanejad would have to show game to game without an issue for it to make sense. Hossa's a guy you can give the puck to and 5 seconds later he'll usually still have it if he wants to.

Zibanejad's more like a Michalek....although he shoots the puck better. Michalek gets the puck and goes straight to the net with it, he can't hold onto the puck for much. That's pretty much what he should be striving for.
I'm not expecting Zbad to be anything like Hossa, but he does have the same tools package. Hossa is a very very strong player, and can be a bull on the puck. Zibanejad isn't as strong, but it looks like there is room to fill out on the kid.

Michalek is a much more likely scenario though I agree.

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11-16-2012, 12:45 PM
  #553
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I'm not expecting Zbad to be anything like Hossa, but he does have the same tools package. Hossa is a very very strong player, and can be a bull on the puck. Zibanejad isn't as strong, but it looks like there is room to fill out on the kid.

Michalek is a much more likely scenario though I agree.
I just think the playing styles and actual skills in terms of possessing the puck aren't on the same level and the comparison will mislead people.

Someone said they were disappointing by his physical play (may have been you, not sure). I agree with that. If the guy could actually come around to play like a true powerforward he could be a hell of one.

But honestly, we will have a better idea of what we have in him when Feb/March roles around.

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11-16-2012, 12:53 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
I just think the playing styles and actual skills in terms of possessing the puck aren't on the same level and the comparison will mislead people.

Someone said they were disappointing by his physical play (may have been you, not sure). I agree with that. If the guy could actually come around to play like a true powerforward he could be a hell of one.

But honestly, we will have a better idea of what we have in him when Feb/March roles around.
I think it's too early to be dissapointed in Zib's physical play: he was fairly physical in the SEL and this is his first year in NA; he might take a while to adjust to the physicality of NA.
Could he be more physical in his approach? Sure, why not. Does not mean he won't get the hang of NA hockey and develop the mean streak we think he could have.
Bottom line is he was considered physical in the SEL so that's a positive.

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11-16-2012, 12:54 PM
  #555
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I think it's too early to be dissapointed in Zib's physical play: he was fairly physical in the SEL and this is his first year in NA; he might take a while to adjust to the physicality of NA.
Could he be more physical in his approach? Sure, why not. Does not mean he won't get the hang of NA hockey and develop the mean streak we think he could have.
Bottom line is he was considered physical in the SEL so that's a positive.
Oh for sure. There aren't really many boundaries on which a player can progress as he ages from 19-23.

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11-16-2012, 01:34 PM
  #556
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i don't know why we woulod want ZBad to be like Hossa. Lasst time I checked, when Hossa was a big wheel on this team we had a track record of losing in the playoffs when we were expected to win.

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11-16-2012, 01:50 PM
  #557
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i don't know why we woulod want ZBad to be like Hossa. Lasst time I checked, when Hossa was a big wheel on this team we had a track record of losing in the playoffs when we were expected to win.

Lalime says hello.

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11-16-2012, 01:53 PM
  #558
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i don't know why we woulod want ZBad to be like Hossa. Lasst time I checked, when Hossa was a big wheel on this team we had a track record of losing in the playoffs when we were expected to win.
You should take a look at the seeding of the teams that beat us. Just because the Toronto media propaganda was wrong doesn't mean that the Senators were not the lower seeded team in a good portion of those playoff series they lost.

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11-16-2012, 02:07 PM
  #559
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Lalime says hello. Playoff seedings. Noise noise noise. Lalime let in some softies for sure, but we didn't score. In those years, we simply did not get it done and we had the team to do it a few times. Hossa was a leader of those teams. Here are his numbers. I liked Hossa, he was a bull dog of a player but he just didn't get it done here in the prime of his career. Even the last 3 years only add to 30 points, 12 goals, plus 3 in 37 games. By comparison, Spezza takes a ******** of abuse here by some yet there is no comparison


2003-04 Ottawa NHL 7 3 1 4 2 -
2002-03 Ottawa NHL 18 5 11 16 -1 -
2001-02 Ottawa NHL 12 4 6 10 2 -
2000-01 Ottawa NHL 4 1 1 2 1 -
1999-00 Ottawa NHL 6 0 0 0 -8 -
1998-99 Ottawa NHL 4 0 2 2 1


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11-16-2012, 02:09 PM
  #560
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For what i remember, it was not only Lalime's fault, at that time our #1 center was Radek ******* Bonk, Chara was a big but totally unmobile pylon and on the top of that, Hossa himself wasn't really the physical type of player you need in the playoff. I'm one on those who were really happy that we trade him for Danny Boy who was far more better than him at that time


Last edited by PatrickEaves: 11-17-2012 at 11:12 AM. Reason: profanity
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11-16-2012, 06:19 PM
  #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post
Big power winger that can go through you or around you, possesses an excellent shot and smooth hands

Zibanejad has shown flashes of Hossa-like ability, just not very often. He needs to be more consistent shift to shift.
Similarities stop there. Hossa had more in his arsenal and used it more consistently.

Hossa is one hell of a finisher - even when Heatley was scoring his 50 goal seasons there would be several instances where he would be in close and mess up a finish (especially in big games) and I would just think... "god dammit. Hossa would have put that in the net". Hossa, especially in his last 2 years in Ottawa when he really found his place, just totally capitalized. His last two years in Ottawa he scored 81 goals on only 462 shots. He shot at 17.53% shooting percentage, which is insane, but more importantly is to note that in those 2 years he had his two lowest shot totals of his career in seasons in which he played over 65 games. He used his teammates perfectly and hardly ever wasted an opportunity. By contrast he scored 2 more goals over the next 2 seasons while shooting 220 more times. Hossa in his prime with the Senators was an insanely efficient beast. He was perfectly in tune with the system to a point where Zibanejad just does not posses the mind to achieve.

Secondly - although this closely relates to the first point - Hossa's strength wasn't in being able to get a shot off quickly like Zibanejad - although his release probably rivalled and bested Ziba's. Rather, his true strength lay in his ability to hold onto the puck for the perfect amount of time. Making room for himself and teammates before often making the perfect play. Quite reminiscent of prime Alfie in some ways, but with better hands. Again, Zibanejad simply won't ever have that level of hockey IQ to be able to pull those kinds of plays. Now, I don't think Zibanejad is a dumb hockey player... but his vision and ability to read the play will never, ever be elite. Hossa was and still is arguably one of the best in the game at that, whereas with Zibanejad we'll be lucky if his IQ ever matches up to his tools. Hossa, while arguably having better physical tools, had an IQ that far surpassed them.

In summation, Hossa in his prime was a truly dominant player who could beat you in countless ways. Even if Zibanejad puts up a 40 goal season, or has a 4 season stretch where he scores over 160 goals like Hossa did, he will do it based on his speed, size, strength and shot and he will most probably be extremely goal heavy in those years. Hossa had all those tools in spades as well, but the basis of his dominance stemmed from his head.

TL;DR: Zibanejad will never approach Hossa's mental game and fundamental understanding that was so crucial in how he played the game

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11-16-2012, 06:31 PM
  #562
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Similarities stop there. Hossa had more in his arsenal and used it more consistently.

Hossa is one hell of a finisher - even when Heatley was scoring his 50 goal seasons there would be several instances where he would be in close and mess up a finish (especially in big games) and I would just think... "god dammit. Hossa would have put that in the net". Hossa, especially in his last 2 years in Ottawa when he really found his place, just totally capitalized. His last two years in Ottawa he scored 81 goals on only 462 shots. He shot at 17.53% shooting percentage, which is insane, but more importantly is to note that in those 2 years he had his two lowest shot totals of his career in seasons in which he played over 65 games. He used his teammates perfectly and hardly ever wasted an opportunity. By contrast he scored 2 more goals over the next 2 seasons while shooting 220 more times. Hossa in his prime with the Senators was an insanely efficient beast. He was perfectly in tune with the system to a point where Zibanejad just does not posses the mind to achieve.

Secondly - although this closely relates to the first point - Hossa's strength wasn't in being able to get a shot off quickly like Zibanejad - although his release probably rivalled and bested Ziba's. Rather, his true strength lay in his ability to hold onto the puck for the perfect amount of time. Making room for himself and teammates before often making the perfect play. Quite reminiscent of prime Alfie in some ways, but with better hands. Again, Zibanejad simply won't ever have that level of hockey IQ to be able to pull those kinds of plays. Now, I don't think Zibanejad is a dumb hockey player... but his vision and ability to read the play will never, ever be elite. Hossa was and still is arguably one of the best in the game at that, whereas with Zibanejad we'll be lucky if his IQ ever matches up to his tools. Hossa, while arguably having better physical tools, had an IQ that far surpassed them.

In summation, Hossa in his prime was a truly dominant player who could beat you in countless ways. Even if Zibanejad puts up a 40 goal season, or has a 4 season stretch where he scores over 160 goals like Hossa did, he will do it based on his speed, size, strength and shot and he will most probably be extremely goal heavy in those years. Hossa had all those tools in spades as well, but the basis of his dominance stemmed from his head.

TL;DR: Zibanejad will never approach Hossa's mental game and fundamental understanding that was so crucial in how he played the game
Couldn't have said it any better myself.

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11-16-2012, 07:29 PM
  #563
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FINALLY!!!!!!! FIRST PROFESSIONAL GOAL, Hopefully he gets going now.

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11-16-2012, 07:57 PM
  #564
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ZIBANEJAD > LIFE

Marian whoooooooooooo!???!

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11-16-2012, 07:59 PM
  #565
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Zib was plenty physical in his 9 games last year. I think that may have to do more with his role which affects his mindset, rather than just lacking physicality.

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11-17-2012, 12:21 AM
  #566
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Ceci hasn't developed as you would have liked?

20 games into the season...where he is PPG+?
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the hell is wrong with Ceci?

Injuries happen...Cowen will be fine
His offence is there, always will be. But his defensive game, and his physical play haven't improved at all since last year. Two things the Sens brass told him he needed to improve. His feet stop moving in the defensive zone and he doesn't take the body. Needs to improve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post
Big power winger that can go through you or around you, possesses an excellent shot and smooth hands

Zibanejad has shown flashes of Hossa-like ability, just not very often. He needs to be more consistent shift to shift.
Never seen the Hossa comparbale myself. Hoss in juniors was a beast and could do magical things with the puck. Zib doesn't have the hands to even be close to Hossa.

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11-17-2012, 12:54 AM
  #567
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His offence is there, always will be. But his defensive game, and his physical play haven't improved at all since last year. Two things the Sens brass told him he needed to improve. His feet stop moving in the defensive zone and he doesn't take the body. Needs to improve.


I've seen almost every game Ceci has played as a 67 and he's at least started picking his spots to be physical.

Last season if a guy was rushing down Ceci's wing he would 9 times out of 10 attempt just to strip the puck off the attacker. This season he's been much more willing to rub the guy out to get the puck. Sure thats a far cry from using his big frame to deck guys, but at least he's starting to use his frame to get in the way and rub the guys out. I really like what I've seen from Ceci regarding physical play. Some people have to realize he will be more of a Kuba then Weber when it comes to throwing his weight around.

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11-17-2012, 12:56 AM
  #568
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i don't know why we woulod want ZBad to be like Hossa. Lasst time I checked, when Hossa was a big wheel on this team we had a track record of losing in the playoffs when we were expected to win.
This may be the post that really drives home the fact that I've been coming here too long.

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11-17-2012, 12:57 AM
  #569
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Originally Posted by N Bahn Ahden View Post
This may be the post that really drives home the fact that I've been coming here too long.
haha anyone who watched Hossa as a Sen know just to ignore an ignorant post like that.

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11-17-2012, 01:15 AM
  #570
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lol, look at my posts number

Retiring. Cya


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I remember that too sadly. What a shame. Especially since Cowen can't stay healthy, our defence is old and slow, Ceci hasn't progressed like I would have liked him too so far this year, and the 2013 draft is stacked with forwards...
And Rielly > Karlsson

Going to suicide.

brb


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Never said we are doomed. Guess with all the lockout negativity has gotten to me too.

Just wish we would have went BPA.
Maybe that's what we did, it's WAY WAY WAY too early to tell... Did I say it was too early?

Well, anyway it's too early to tell

That being said, it's still too soon. And too early... We'll see with time. In a few years, when it won't be too early.

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Cowen was injury free for 2 years. He can stay healthy. He got unlucky.
According to the injury, I think he would have played through it if there was a NHL season and get surgery next summer, but while they waste their time with no NHL, why not do it now?

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11-17-2012, 10:55 AM
  #571
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haha anyone who watched Hossa as a Sen know just to ignore an ignorant post like that.
Lol take it with a grain of salt. Opinions like that were only formulated as a result of the Sens getting dominated by the Leafs in the playoffs a handful of times back in the day. Perhaps on paper we should have won, but the Leafs typically out smarted and out muscled us, leaving Ottawa fans frustrated. The media labeled us as soft and Leaf fans everywhere made fun of us, treating us like the younger brother both on and off the ice. When you get beaten down like that and you hear about it everywhere you go, it wears on you psychologically and it causes you to lash out in anger. Guys like Hossa and Alfie were caught in the cross hairs as people looked for answers and their heart and leadership was questioned. All this seems laughable now when you see how Hossa's (and Alfie's) career has progressed.

So a post like that isn't neccessarily ignorant, it could just be a result of misplaced blame. To each his own though. When I was looking to cope, I filled my heart with hate towards Cujo and Belfour; the real reasons behind our undoing!

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11-17-2012, 11:10 AM
  #572
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Lol take it with a grain of salt. Opinions like that were only formulated as a result of the Sens getting dominated by the Leafs in the playoffs a handful of times back in the day. Perhaps on paper we should have won, but the Leafs typically out smarted and out muscled us, leaving Ottawa fans frustrated. The media labeled us as soft and Leaf fans everywhere made fun of us, treating us like the younger brother both on and off the ice. When you get beaten down like that and you hear about it everywhere you go, it wears on you psychologically and it causes you to lash out in anger. Guys like Hossa and Alfie were caught in the cross hairs as people looked for answers and their heart and leadership was questioned. All this seems laughable now when you see how Hossa's (and Alfie's) career has progressed.

So a post like that isn't neccessarily ignorant, it could just be a result of misplaced blame. To each his own though. When I was looking to cope, I filled my heart with hate towards Cujo and Belfour; the real reasons behind our undoing!
2000
Conference Quarterfinals(First Round) in 6 games
(3)Toronto Maple Leafs™ vs. (6)Ottawa Senators™

2001
Conference Quarterfinals(First Round) in 4 games
(2)Ottawa Senators™ vs. (7)Toronto Maple Leafs

2002
Conference Semifinals(Second Round) in 7 games
(4)Toronto Maple Leafs™ vs. (7)Ottawa Senators™

2004
Conference Quarterfinals(First Round) in 7 games
(4)Toronto Maple Leafs™ vs. (5)Ottawa Senators™

I still only see one "choke" (in 2001). In all the other series, I see an underdog taking the higher seeded (and thus favoured) team to a long series (with two going the distance) before losing.

There are too many people that drank the Toronto centered media kool-aid about how the scrappy Leafs overcame the highpowered Senators, but the Leafs were a better team according to the regular season.

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11-17-2012, 01:24 PM
  #573
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I've seen almost every game Ceci has played as a 67 and he's at least started picking his spots to be physical.

Last season if a guy was rushing down Ceci's wing he would 9 times out of 10 attempt just to strip the puck off the attacker. This season he's been much more willing to rub the guy out to get the puck. Sure thats a far cry from using his big frame to deck guys, but at least he's starting to use his frame to get in the way and rub the guys out. I really like what I've seen from Ceci regarding physical play. Some people have to realize he will be more of a Kuba then Weber when it comes to throwing his weight around.
Oh absolutely, he's never going to rock guys, but he can't just let guys skate past him without any physical contact. Still lots of time to learn though. His defensive awareness is somehting he will improve on as he gets older too, just thought it would be slightly better then it was last year.

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11-17-2012, 02:21 PM
  #574
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Oh absolutely, he's never going to rock guys, but he can't just let guys skate past him without any physical contact. Still lots of time to learn though. His defensive awareness is somehting he will improve on as he gets older too, just thought it would be slightly better then it was last year.
Id say it is.

But keep in mind it's for it to not appear so when you go from playing on a dominant team to a basement dweller.

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11-17-2012, 02:43 PM
  #575
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Originally Posted by AndrePetersson View Post
2000
Conference Quarterfinals(First Round) in 6 games
(3)Toronto Maple Leafs™ vs. (6)Ottawa Senators™

2001
Conference Quarterfinals(First Round) in 4 games
(2)Ottawa Senators™ vs. (7)Toronto Maple Leafs

2002
Conference Semifinals(Second Round) in 7 games
(4)Toronto Maple Leafs™ vs. (7)Ottawa Senators™

2004
Conference Quarterfinals(First Round) in 7 games
(4)Toronto Maple Leafs™ vs. (5)Ottawa Senators™

I still only see one "choke" (in 2001). In all the other series, I see an underdog taking the higher seeded (and thus favoured) team to a long series (with two going the distance) before losing.

There are too many people that drank the Toronto centered media kool-aid about how the scrappy Leafs overcame the highpowered Senators, but the Leafs were a better team according to the regular season.
I wouldn't neccessarily call it a choke job, but when you lose to a provincial rival in the playoffs 4 times in 5 years, right or wrong, it's hard not to cast judgement on the players involved.

In addition, there was an undeniable trickle down affect to those losses. As mentioned earlier, both the media and fans alike labeled the team as soft and management made it a point to try and correct this "problem" on the fly. Players like Ruutu, McGrattan, Donovon, Foligno, Smith, and Varada were either signed or drafted to try and compensate for this issue.

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