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The All Purpose Lu Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
11-17-2012, 03:42 PM
  #926
marty111
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Why do you assume it will be a full-season lockout? If it's a full season lockout than Lupul, Bozak, Macarthur, etc all have zero value.

All I'm saying is that with the CBA uncertainty and the amount of possibilities that could change Luongo's desirability drastically, the best we can do, as fans, is speculate on a deal that helps improve both teams' on-ice performance.
Yes any UFA will have unknown values, perhaps none.

And I agree somewhat but you can't discredit that the impending future changes on the cap, contracts, and having Lu playing 1-B or #2 to Schneider [regardless how good each is] isn't going to last forever.

One will want out and it makes sense it's Lu.

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11-17-2012, 03:47 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
I doubt that lasts.

Luongo has been the go to guy at every level. I really can't see him just accepting being a 1B or a # 2.
Who knows what the future holds. Anyone claiming to know how things play out is making it up.

I think it's safer to stick with the facts.

Lou is a canuck, under contract for a long time for a lot of money.

Gillis has said he'd consider a trade when the value is there and to date it has not been.

Expect more of the same.

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Old
11-17-2012, 03:49 PM
  #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Yes any UFA will have unknown values, perhaps none.

And I agree somewhat but you can't discredit that the impending future changes on the cap, contracts, and having Lu playing 1-B or #2 to Schneider [regardless how good each is] isn't going to last forever.

One will want out and it makes sense it's Lu.
I guess it's simply a different outlook on it. I prefer to be optimistic that the Season could start any day, and thus place some level of value on players with one-year deals, as thinking Burke would be pressured to perform well this season.

But if you assume the worst than all that goes out the window.

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11-17-2012, 03:49 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by ProspectProphet View Post
Sums up every one of your posts. I can see that my mock-post got it's point across.
I wrote that before you. If you read my posts you would know that. Go back to page 32.

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Old
11-17-2012, 03:54 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
There is currently one very good goalie available. Burke has one of two options: trade for Luongo or live and die by Reimer/Scrivens.
Thing is, those aren't his only options as I have stated.

I'm actually blown away that you don't think out of the other 28 teams in the league that one of them might listen on one of their existing goalies to trade? Doesn't have to be as good as Lu. Just because it hasn't been written about that means that absolutely no one else is available to trade? My BS meter is going off.

And if the lockout is all year then yes, I have provided a solid list of options.

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11-17-2012, 04:00 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Thing is, those aren't his only options as I have stated.

I'm actually blown away that you don't think out of the other 28 teams in the league that one of them might listen on one of their existing goalies to trade? Doesn't have to be as good as Lu. Just because it hasn't been written about that means that absolutely no one else is available to trade? My BS meter is going off.

And if the lockout is all year then yes, I have provided a solid list of options.
I cannot think out of 28 teams one will listen for a trade because they are not in the position to do so unless they are trading for an upgrade with Vancouver for Luongo. And apparently you do not think this either because out of these 28 teams you have not listed any example. Maybe your BS meter is having a malfunction. Better be safe and get that check out soon. If the lockout is all year Burke may not have a job. If lockout it all year we might take Lupul off your hands for free and trade Luongo somewhere else. In all seriousness it is impossible to talk that this stuff because there are to many variables to consider.

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11-17-2012, 04:01 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I guess it's simply a different outlook on it. I prefer to be optimistic that the Season could start any day, and thus place some level of value on players with one-year deals, as thinking Burke would be pressured to perform well this season.

But if you assume the worst than all that goes out the window.
Well the shorter the season, the harder it is to predict their teams performance and placement?

Regardless, I don't see any evidence to suggest Burke will be fired if they play a shortened season and miss the playoffs.

Nothing to suggest it.

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11-17-2012, 04:02 PM
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I wrote that before you. If you read my posts you would know that. Go back to page 32.
...no kidding, and it was all speculative, hence my mock-reply.

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11-17-2012, 04:02 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
At the end of this game of goalie musical chairs there will still be teams left without a starter. If by some miracle Burke lands Howard, then Detroit becomes a potential suitor, etc.

Not to mention guys like Khabibulin, Emery are marginal upgrades at best. Theodore has said he plans on retiring in Florida. And Thomas likely may never play hockey again, and it would be foolhardy to gamble on him coming back.

Not to mention teams like San Jose or Chicago will also be active in the goalie market, and they'd be a lot more appealing than Toronto as potential goalie destinations.
In case you missed this post, acquiring an upgrade in goal next season isn't as easy as it sounds.

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11-17-2012, 04:04 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
I cannot think out of 28 teams one will listen for a trade because they are not in the position to do so unless they are trading for an upgrade with Vancouver for Luongo. And apparently you do not think this either because out of these 28 teams you have not listed any example. Maybe your BS meter is having a malfunction. Better be safe and get that check out soon. If the lockout is all year Burke may not have a job. If lockout it all year we might take Lupul off your hands for free and trade Luongo somewhere else. In all seriousness it is impossible to talk that this stuff because there are to many variables to consider.
What in the hell is this?

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11-17-2012, 04:05 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
I doubt that lasts.

Luongo has been the go to guy at every level. I really can't see him just accepting being a 1B or a # 2.
Luongo is a competitive guy who probably realizes he was outplayed this year. He also probably realizes that if he plays better than Schneider he will win his job back.

The guy is not going to sit around crying... If he was that kind of guy, he never would have made it as a pro athlete. The guy has a lot of pride and will likely want to prove he's the best goalie in the world. That being said, his wife had been pushing hard for him to get back to Florida and he probably saw this as a chance to maybe do that.

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11-17-2012, 04:05 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
In case you missed this post, acquiring an upgrade in goal next season isn't as easy as it sounds.
It is when you are looking for an upgrade on Scrivens.

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11-17-2012, 04:05 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Well the shorter the season, the harder it is to predict their teams performance and placement?

Regardless, I don't see any evidence to suggest Burke will be fired if they play a shortened season and miss the playoffs.

Nothing to suggest it.
I never said Burke would be fired, but it would certainly hurt his ego and rep if at the end of his "5-year plan" the Leafs haven't made the playoffs once.

At the very least I don't see Gillis under any more pressure than Burke is to get a deal done.

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Old
11-17-2012, 04:06 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
What in the hell is this?
It is BS speculation. It is an example like when talk about UFA goalies available if lockout continues all year.

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Old
11-17-2012, 04:07 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Luongo is a competitive guy who probably realizes he was outplayed this year. He also probably realizes that if he plays better than Schneider he will win his job back.

The guy is not going to sit around crying... If he was that kind of guy, he never would have made it as a pro athlete. The guy has a lot of pride and will likely want to prove he's the best goalie in the world. That being said, his wife had been pushing hard for him to get back to Florida and he probably saw this as a chance to maybe do that.
Didn't Lu get sat in the two elimination games against the Kings because the coach just thought Schneider would be a better overall fit for the team?

Luongo played well and was still benched. Do you think this mentality changes next year?

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11-17-2012, 04:07 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I'll respond to them, but there are so many things to respond to. What are they?
I don't remember all of it, but it was something like this:

1st, Lui has not demanded a trade. That is actual fact. It would seem he and management think it is time to move on, but there is no trade me or else.

#2 Both Darren Dregger and Ray Ferraro, have both stated players asked to get traded a lot more than we know. They don't always get traded. Ray went more into detailing it saying the leverage there. Player sits out gets bad rep, loses value, makes trade longer and harder to happen anyway, yadda yadda.

#3 Players that have asked for a trade and not been traded, Bernier, Bobby Ryan, and actually Bure asked for a trade a long time before he was traded. he finally sat out after his contract had expired, if I remember how it all went down.

So that right there are FACTS, that all refute anything you have said.

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Old
11-17-2012, 04:08 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
It is when you are looking for an upgrade on Scrivens.
If that was all Burke wanted he'd simply have re-signed Gustavsson. Burke obviously has plans to address the goaltending, as he's mentioned.

Going from Gustavsson to Emery or Khabibulin as the backup goalie doesn't seem like that much of a difference.

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11-17-2012, 04:10 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
It is BS speculation. It is an example like when talk about UFA goalies available if lockout continues all year.
You make a point with Lupul because it's reasonable to expect some UFA's will move on.

But Burke being fired without even another season taking place can't be validated by anything. I have validated all of the "speculated" aspects of my post and provided some facts to support them.

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11-17-2012, 04:11 PM
  #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
What in the hell is this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
It is BS speculation. It is an example like when talk about UFA goalies available if lockout continues all year.
It would also be a comment on how both Player, and GM would not have a contract. Thus one may lose his job, the other could go where ever he wanted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Didn't Lu get sat in the two elimination games against the Kings because the coach just thought Schneider would be a better overall fit for the team?

Luongo played well and was still benched. Do you think this mentality changes next year?
No he was sat to change up as a last resort for a team that was coming out flat. He actually played very well.

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Old
11-17-2012, 04:14 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
You make a point with Lupul because it's reasonable to expect some UFA's will move on.

But Burke being fired without even another season taking place can't be validated by anything. I have validated all of the "speculated" aspects of my post and provided some facts to support them.
What facts are there to support that Burke will trade with another team?

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Old
11-17-2012, 04:20 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
I don't remember all of it, but it was something like this:

1st, Lui has not demanded a trade. That is actual fact. It would seem he and management think it is time to move on, but there is no trade me or else.

#2 Both Darren Dregger and Ray Ferraro, have both stated players asked to get traded a lot more than we know. They don't always get traded. Ray went more into detailing it saying the leverage there. Player sits out gets bad rep, loses value, makes trade longer and harder to happen anyway, yadda yadda.

#3 Players that have asked for a trade and not been traded, Bernier, Bobby Ryan, and actually Bure asked for a trade a long time before he was traded. he finally sat out after his contract had expired, if I remember how it all went down.

So that right there are FACTS, that all refute anything you have said.
#1. I never said he demanded a trade so their is nothing to refute. In fact if you read the whole point then you will see we agree with point #1.

#2. Can you provide any sources? And can they relate to high profile athletes which I have stated numerous times?

#3. Bernier isn't a high profile athlete so he has not leverage to demand a trade. Bobby Ryan demanded a trade because his very franchise was throwing him under the bus to try to improve his play. Also consider this was less then a year ago so it's not the greatest example since it can still happen. Also keep in mind, he has gotten his way since the coach has been fired and he hasn't been threatened by the GM since.

" When you get drafted, you want to win championships with that team and every time they look to add a piece to the puzzle, I'm the piece going the other way."

If things clear up on the Bure front, feel free to post it for me.

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Old
11-17-2012, 04:21 PM
  #947
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So Vancouver isn't allowed to have 2 good goalies and try for a 3rd consecutive PT because of lockeroom issues, but other teams are allowed to tank and wait for a reduced price in a season or 2, as if their current season means nothing, as if they aren't getting older... and their players are fine with it. I'm beggining to see the logic. That must be why the Oilers' supporting cast is so strong: everyone wants to jump onboard with a team that doesn't care about winning in the present.

Nobody really wants to win, so of coarse there is only Gillis-fabricated interest from other teams.

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Old
11-17-2012, 04:22 PM
  #948
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It would also be a comment on how both Player, and GM would not have a contract. Thus one may lose his job, the other could go where ever he wanted.
I don't get this post.

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Old
11-17-2012, 04:24 PM
  #949
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What facts are there to support that Burke will trade with another team?
Well how about that Burke has traded with multiple teams since being in Toronto for MANY players never speculated about. As well, EVER YEAR players are moved that no one would have thought possible.

It happens all the time and the only reason it isn't listed is because it would take me until I'm dead to compile a list.

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11-17-2012, 04:30 PM
  #950
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Well how about that Burke has traded with multiple teams since being in Toronto for MANY players never speculated about. As well, EVER YEAR players are moved that no one would have thought possible.

It happens all the time and the only reason it isn't listed is because it would take me until I'm dead to compile a list.
Then do us all a favour, stop posting speculative POV's; claiming they are fact, and get started on that list.

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