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Old
11-17-2012, 09:59 PM
  #326
Suntouchable13
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Escobar is a good player. This past season was just a bad year. He'll rebound. I was never really upset at him for making that mistake with his eye black. People really overreacted to that. I never wanted him gone.

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11-17-2012, 10:17 PM
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
Escobar is a good player. This past season was just a bad year. He'll rebound. I was never really upset at him for making that mistake with his eye black. People really overreacted to that. I never wanted him gone.
I know he's a good player too. Look at his 2011 year, it was outstanding. Look at the year he hit .299 with the Braves...outstanding.

The Marlins obviously know he is not a scrub and I think he will bounce back nicely.

For the record the eyeblack thing was a dumb move but was overblown to nauseating proportions.

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11-17-2012, 10:45 PM
  #328
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so... Wednesday i said we need another bat and another pitcher. Now it's just a pitcher.

many have mentioned marcum, we'll see if there's actually any truth to that rumor, but that would slide him into the 4 or 5 slot and push happ to swingman.

some have mentioned mccarthy, but there is risk - he's coming off a mega-concussion, and i have to believe there will be some sort of sentimental pull from oakland to just retain him.

I'd suggest ryan dempster. Yes he's old and a national-league pitcher his entire career, but he's reliable for the 4/5 spot, wont want too much money or term, and as a bonus, is a canuck. He's exactly the type of free agent this blue-jays resurgence should be able to attract.

Another option is Roy Oswalt, who again is old, will come cheap, and not want much term. He would compete with Happ for the 5 spot and they could actually switch in and out of the rotation depending on who is playing well at a given time.

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11-17-2012, 10:54 PM
  #329
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If we were open to adding another pitcher my first target would be Haren, depending on price ofcourse. In the scenario where JJ elects free agency, taking a chance on Haren to rebound to his former self could cushion the blow. If it was a 1yr deal Haren would hit free agency at the same but you never know with most pending FAs. He could like it here, much like JJ.

Don't want any part of Oswalt.


Last edited by Everlong: 11-17-2012 at 11:01 PM.
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11-17-2012, 10:56 PM
  #330
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so... Wednesday i said we need another bat and another pitcher. Now it's just a pitcher.

many have mentioned marcum, we'll see if there's actually any truth to that rumor, but that would slide him into the 4 or 5 slot and push happ to swingman.

some have mentioned mccarthy, but there is risk - he's coming off a mega-concussion, and i have to believe there will be some sort of sentimental pull from oakland to just retain him.

I'd suggest ryan dempster. Yes he's old and a national-league pitcher his entire career, but he's reliable for the 4/5 spot, wont want too much money or term, and as a bonus, is a canuck. He's exactly the type of free agent this blue-jays resurgence should be able to attract.

Another option is Roy Oswalt, who again is old, will come cheap, and not want much term. He would compete with Happ for the 5 spot and they could actually switch in and out of the rotation depending on who is playing well at a given time.
I am a huge Roy Oswalt fan but want him nowhere near the starting rotation of this team. He's more on less done in my opinion. I would rather just keep what we have then sign him. IMO

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11-17-2012, 11:01 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
so... Wednesday i said we need another bat and another pitcher. Now it's just a pitcher.

many have mentioned marcum, we'll see if there's actually any truth to that rumor, but that would slide him into the 4 or 5 slot and push happ to swingman.

some have mentioned mccarthy, but there is risk - he's coming off a mega-concussion, and i have to believe there will be some sort of sentimental pull from oakland to just retain him.

I'd suggest ryan dempster. Yes he's old and a national-league pitcher his entire career, but he's reliable for the 4/5 spot, wont want too much money or term, and as a bonus, is a canuck. He's exactly the type of free agent this blue-jays resurgence should be able to attract.

Another option is Roy Oswalt, who again is old, will come cheap, and not want much term. He would compete with Happ for the 5 spot and they could actually switch in and out of the rotation depending on who is playing well at a given time.
I've never heard of a professional athlete not wanting too much money. He had a very good season, he'll get big money, but nothing more than two years.

Oswalt is done, no chance the Jays go after him. He might get an invite to spring training from a team needing pitching depth.

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11-17-2012, 11:07 PM
  #332
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Anyone else think Melky should mostly DH at this point? His defense is deplorable. Just stick Gose in LF/RF (interchangeable with Bautista).

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11-17-2012, 11:13 PM
  #333
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Anyone else think Melky should mostly DH at this point? His defense is deplorable. Just stick Gose in LF/RF (interchangeable with Bautista).
His defense is bad, but having Lind/JPA/Buck in the DH spot and Melky in the outfield is far more valuable than Gose/Davis/Bonafacio playing better defensively, but getting regular AB's. The DH spot is best served by someone with power and any of those guys are better options.

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11-17-2012, 11:20 PM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
so... Wednesday i said we need another bat and another pitcher. Now it's just a pitcher.

many have mentioned marcum, we'll see if there's actually any truth to that rumor, but that would slide him into the 4 or 5 slot and push happ to swingman.

some have mentioned mccarthy, but there is risk - he's coming off a mega-concussion, and i have to believe there will be some sort of sentimental pull from oakland to just retain him.

I'd suggest ryan dempster. Yes he's old and a national-league pitcher his entire career, but he's reliable for the 4/5 spot, wont want too much money or term, and as a bonus, is a canuck. He's exactly the type of free agent this blue-jays resurgence should be able to attract.

Another option is Roy Oswalt, who again is old, will come cheap, and not want much term. He would compete with Happ for the 5 spot and they could actually switch in and out of the rotation depending on who is playing well at a given time.
He is better than a 4/5 pitcher and will get paid like it. Not going to come cheap at all. I think he'll get somewhere between 10-12M over 2-3 years.

Pass on Oswalt. I don't think he will want to come here and after seeing how terrible he was with the Rangers, I'm not sure if he is a viable candidate. His K/BB numbers were good but he got hit really hard and gave up a lot of HR. I'm not sure how many innings or what you will get out of him.

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Anyone else think Melky should mostly DH at this point? His defense is deplorable. Just stick Gose in LF/RF (interchangeable with Bautista).
No. Cabrera is terrible as CF which is what he had been playing until he got to San Francisco. He is perfectly fine as a LF and likely an upgrade over Davis/Thames and basically everyone we have thrown out in LF with the exception of Snider.

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11-17-2012, 11:24 PM
  #335
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Yeah, our bar isn't really set too high for the LF position in terms of defense. Pat Tabler could probably meet expectations at this point.

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11-17-2012, 11:38 PM
  #336
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Yeah, our bar isn't really set too high for the LF position in terms of defense. Pat Tabler could probably meet expectations at this point.


Cabrera will be fine out there. He'll likely see some time at DH as well, but he'll be the regular LF. Signing him filled a huge gap in out lineup and AA wouldn't have spent $16m on him if he wasn't going to be playing an important situation regularly.

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11-18-2012, 12:16 AM
  #337
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Quote:
Anyone else think Melky should mostly DH at this point? His defense is deplorable.
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
No. Cabrera is terrible as CF

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Old
11-18-2012, 12:18 AM
  #338
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Did you read the rest of what NN had to say?

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Old
11-18-2012, 12:23 AM
  #339
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He is better than a 4/5 pitcher and will get paid like it. Not going to come cheap at all. I think he'll get somewhere between 10-12M over 2-3 years.

Pass on Oswalt. I don't think he will want to come here and after seeing how terrible he was with the Rangers, I'm not sure if he is a viable candidate. His K/BB numbers were good but he got hit really hard and gave up a lot of HR. I'm not sure how many innings or what you will get out of him.



No. Cabrera is terrible as CF which is what he had been playing until he got to San Francisco. He is perfectly fine as a LF and likely an upgrade over Davis/Thames and basically everyone we have thrown out in LF with the exception of Snider.
Yeah honestly, I saw quite a few games when he was in ATL...

His range isn't THAT bad... he'll definitely be an upgrade over anyone who played LF last year with the exception of Gose. And honestly Colby's got enough range to cover jose and melky's gaps.

MC doesn't make a ton of errors either, and has a respectable arm, definitely an upgrade over Davis.

This whole bad defensively thing is overblown. Any guy who was able to play CF at one point in his career should be good enough to play the corner outfield in a relatively small park that doesn't have any tricky corners like RC.

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Old
11-18-2012, 01:02 AM
  #340
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I've reconsidered the notion of potentially hiring Jim Tracy after listening to Keith Law absolutely bashing him. I highly value Law's opinion on baseball matters. He's a great analyst and is literally an encyclopedia of baseball.

Out of the two, I'm definitely on the Riggleman bandwagon. He's known for a hard-ass type which leads to success in spurts but his antics can wear off after a while. The Nationals team did play well under him.

Although, I must admit I'm not enamored with any of the above choices, not even Manny Acta.

I just hope they conduct a diligent search and get the right guy longterm.

I'm still hoping Ron Gardenhire is the guy. On his last year and the team is letting it run out and discuss contract after the year is done, measuring progress.

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11-18-2012, 01:07 AM
  #341
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a clean melky should be good for 3 home runs. Nice to have a local connection for my roids now.

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11-18-2012, 01:13 AM
  #342
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a clean melky should be good for 3 home runs. Nice to have a local connection for my roids now.
18 HR 87 RBI + .305 avg in 2011 with the Royals. I think 18 is more than 3, not sure though.

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11-18-2012, 01:15 AM
  #343
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a clean melky should be good for 3 home runs. Nice to have a local connection for my roids now.
Are you suggesting he's been on steroids his entire career?

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11-18-2012, 01:16 AM
  #344
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18 HR 87 RBI + .305 avg in 2011 with the Royals. I think 18 is more than 3, not sure though.
no way to know that wasn't PED-driven as well. his 2011 and 2012 numbers were significant improvements on his 2010-previous numbers.

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11-18-2012, 01:25 AM
  #345
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no way to know that wasn't PED-driven as well. his 2011 and 2012 numbers were significant improvements on his 2010-previous numbers.
Any proof?

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11-18-2012, 01:41 AM
  #346
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Any proof?
You mean other than the fact that he got caught using steroids a season and a half after his numbers suddenly had an immense jump? Surely that constitutes SOME proof...

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11-18-2012, 01:57 AM
  #347
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You mean other than the fact that he got caught using steroids a season and a half after his numbers suddenly had an immense jump? Surely that constitutes SOME proof...
+1. I'm not mad about the Melky signing. I think it's a good one in that its a short term deal. But I'm not expecting much more than a .750 OPS. I wouldn't conclude that he was juicing in his KCR year, but it seems likely that he may have been. Still, like I said, it's a good signing, and even if he OPS's at .750 he should be good for hopefully 15 dingers and a decent (.260 - .275) avg. Hope I'm wrong and he hits .300 for 20 bombs. The upside seems to be there.


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11-18-2012, 02:09 AM
  #348
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Any proof?
I'm not saying he did it. I'm just saying that given that he got caught juicing it's open to speculation how much of the rather notable spike in production he had in 2011 and 2012 is due to PED use.

Even if he goes back to something more closely resembling pre-2011 Melky, it's not so bad. He's still better than Rajai with the bat and even if he's just a 1 or 2 WAR player over the course of his contract, it's not that bad of a deal given the going rate for players on the FA market.

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11-18-2012, 02:22 AM
  #349
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I'm not saying he did it. I'm just saying that given that he got caught juicing it's open to speculation how much of the rather notable spike in production he had in 2011 and 2012 is due to PED use.

Even if he goes back to something more closely resembling pre-2011 Melky, it's not so bad. He's still better than Rajai with the bat and even if he's just a 1 or 2 WAR player over the course of his contract, it's not that bad of a deal given the going rate for players on the FA market.
Well said. It's a good signing at the end of the day. Especially for Rogers. There's a marketing opportunity in putting together a Dominican core. Regardless of how each individual performs.

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11-18-2012, 02:24 AM
  #350
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Nem, out of curiosity, what's the buzz like on the West coast? In Toronto it's pretty legit. Alot of casual sports fans seem to be pretty excited about the Jays' prospective season. Same deal over there?

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