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Milwaukee Admirals @ OKC Barons, Saturday 11/17 6PM MDT, Where's The Offense?

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11-17-2012, 09:42 PM
  #226
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Nice to see Paajarvi's work at both ends of the rink acknowledged with a 3rd star selection. 1st star was RNH and the 2nd was Fedun.

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11-17-2012, 09:44 PM
  #227
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They are starting to get into a groove, but Hall still looks extremely rusty out there especially in terms of his passing. When he gets it going and our secondary scoring starts to come around we will be beating some teams down in a big way. Good games from Schultz, Paajarvi, Arco, and Harski as well.
yeah hall looks rusty for sure, but that was to be expected... i don't really expect anything from him this year at all to be honest... he won't be firing on all cylinders until march at the earliest... it takes a full year or more to recover from that shoulder surgery... we have enough experience (horcoff, hemsky) with these now to know this

harti and paajarvi both looked good tonight i thought, harti had a lot of puck protection play and paajarvi was all over the ice i thought

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11-17-2012, 09:45 PM
  #228
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Hall doesn't even need to score points. He just wins....his gutsy flailing about the ice somehow just guarantees victory.

No sarcasm.

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11-17-2012, 09:47 PM
  #229
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You say that now, but in a few years when he is Schulz's age ... well, he could be another Schulz! I love this kid's upside.
I don't think that he'll be another Schultz, but he has top 4 potential for sure. It was a brain fart and he has had many of them this year, that said he's played a ton and is our youngest D out there, it is to be expected IMO. I really like the kid, but I'm not about to try to cover up his screw ups to prop up his game.

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Paajarvi is steadily improving every game. Lander look good too.
Paajarvi still has a ways to go, but he was very solid on the PK as well, that is what I envision him being for us at this point, 3rd line winger and PK specialist, nothing wrong with that IMO.

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Harski looks pretty impressive, gotta say. Dominating along the boards, standing people up. Plenty to like!
He's very strong and gives defenders fits, he's showing that he is ready for the next level, I'm very pleased with his progress this season.

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11-17-2012, 09:50 PM
  #230
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yeah hall looks rusty for sure, but that was to be expected... i don't really expect anything from him this year at all to be honest... he won't be firing on all cylinders until march at the earliest... it takes a full year or more to recover from that shoulder surgery... we have enough experience (horcoff, hemsky) with these now to know this

harti and paajarvi both looked good tonight i thought, harti had a lot of puck protection play and paajarvi was all over the ice i thought
I think that we'll see Hall getting back to form before then, he is younger than the other two were and he probably had more time to rehab it as well. He'll be fine IMO.

I agree that Harski and Paajarvi were solid out there, they could form 2/3's of a really solid 3rd line for us down the road.

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11-17-2012, 09:52 PM
  #231
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Harski was killing it along the boards. haha he invites contact. still a while before he's ready for prime time though.

the lockout is a blessing in disguise for our team. I want it to last the year and see this team win the calder cup. and playoffs year after

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11-17-2012, 09:53 PM
  #232
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I thought Lander had a good game too. He didn't get an A on Fedun's goal but it was his stretch pass to the Ad's blue line that started that play.

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11-17-2012, 09:53 PM
  #233
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I can't help but be excited about Marincin. Didn't get to watch him much when he was in the WHL, but he was tracking well the whole time. Was touted as a shutdown dman, yet he put up an impressive amount of points. Now he's looking better than I ever expected in the AHL. With his size and his skill, he could be a really good NHL dman some day. We just have to be patient while he seasons in the AHL, he still quite raw. Needs to pack on a few pounds too, which might take a couple years.

As excited as I am about Marincin, I'm still just hoping he'll be a top 4 dman. I'm not ruling anything out though, this kid could surprise a lot of people.

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11-17-2012, 09:56 PM
  #234
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Harski looks pretty impressive, gotta say. Dominating along the boards, standing people up. Plenty to like!
Yep, he has been the most impressive of the secondary players, it seems that he is well on his way towards earning a full time spot on the Oilers.
I like the way that Lander and Paajarvi are playing as well, i think the three are feeding off each other nicely.

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11-17-2012, 10:04 PM
  #235
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Harski was killing it along the boards. haha he invites contact. still a while before he's ready for prime time though.

the lockout is a blessing in disguise for our team. I want it to last the year and see this team win the calder cup. and playoffs year after
It is a blessing in disguise even though I want nothing more than the NHL to start. At least we have the Barons to kill the year if there is no NHL. I'm glad Schultzis rooming with eberle or RNH.

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11-17-2012, 10:09 PM
  #236
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A little bit of background on the Plante/Latta fight (Plante's last one) : Latta had an incredibly nasty spear on Henry, just pitchforked him right in the lower abdomen after an inane exchange in the corner. Henry had to come off hurt for a bit; it was the kind of thing that could have easily put him in the hospital if it had hit the right spot. The refs who are miserable failures at their chosen profession of course did not see this to give Latta the 5 and a game that he should have gotten for it, so the Barons started chipping at him and running him all through the third. Plante finally got him in the corner after he ran MPS.

I really, REALLY hate seeing plays like that spear. I felt like I was the only one in the arena who saw it; it was well behind the play and in a group of guys so it was easy to miss. I have decided that Latta is a terrible person and I wish him failure in his hockey career.

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11-18-2012, 12:11 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
RNH and eberle with 3 points each and hall with 2... but i'm sure i'll read a post tomorrow about how the kids aren't doing anything in the AHL
I'll bite.

So what are they doing? Beating up on teams the caliber of the Milwaukee Admirals who on the basis of watching most of this game would have to be up there with the Columbus Blue Jackets in terms of futile and useless opposition.

Heres what I saw: Even in the first 6mins of this game you know its going to go save for divine intervention.

A sadsack Admirals club are playing riverboat gambler hockey trading chances with OKC. Gee, wonder how thats going to work out for them. I think Hall had two breakaways in the first 8mins (my stream cut out a couple times) I counted 12 serious scoring chances combined(both clubs) in the first 6mins of the game.

Again, how is this game going to turn out?

Look, a win is a win is a win, better than losing, But to say much of anything about what a performance like this means against an opponent that couldn't care less about the result tonight is overstating it.

Yeah, when its free bingo night on the calender the boys collect pts. Its what they learn to do against good opposition that matters. This is a game that a clown like Omark would bag 3-4pts in.

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11-18-2012, 12:17 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by ales83fan View Post
Harski was killing it along the boards. haha he invites contact. still a while before he's ready for prime time though.

the lockout is a blessing in disguise for our team. I want it to last the year and see this team win the calder cup. and playoffs year after
We agree on quite a lot on this board but as for the above I couldn't disagree more.

Of any NHL club the Oilers development stands to be most adversely impacted by a year lockout. The worst possible result any Oiler fan should want.

This is formative years for this club to bond, gell, learn how to be an NHL winning club etc. Its a year we're not getting back if its flushed. This puts our whole development stable 1 year back and we're currently team development in the entire NHL.

This year is exactly what this rebuild through youth development team doesn't need.

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11-18-2012, 12:20 AM
  #239
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I'll bite.

So what are they doing? Beating up on teams the caliber of the Milwaukee Admirals who on the basis of watching most of this game would have to be up there with the Columbus Blue Jackets in terms of futile and useless opposition.

Heres what I saw: Even in the first 6mins of this game you know its going to go save for divine intervention.

A sadsack Admirals club are playing riverboat gambler hockey trading chances with OKC. Gee, wonder how thats going to work out for them. I think Hall had two breakaways in the first 8mins (my stream cut out a couple times) I counted 12 serious scoring chances combined(both clubs) in the first 6mins of the game.

Again, how is this game going to turn out?

Look, a win is a win is a win, better than losing, But to say much of anything about what a performance like this means against an opponent that couldn't care less about the result tonight is overstating it.

Yeah, when its free bingo night on the calender the boys collect pts. Its what they learn to do against good opposition that matters. This is a game that a clown like Omark would bag 3-4pts in.
To summarize: When they fail to produce, they suck. When they produce, the opponent sucks so it doesn't count.

Your schtick is embarrassing.

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11-18-2012, 12:31 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
To summarize: When they fail to produce, they suck. When they produce, the opponent sucks so it doesn't count.

Your schtick is embarrassing.
Not at all. Show me production against a reasonable team and good opponent performance and I'll credit it.

Do you really disagree with my statement? Was this not river hockey from the opening faceoff?

If I see these young players getting results against a team actually trying to win a game I'll give it credit. But if you think anybody with the Admirals org is happy with the way that team played tonight you're wrong.

This here from the start was a coaching nightmare game.

People can see what they wanna see I guess but I'll call it for what it is. Free bingo night for pts.

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11-18-2012, 12:32 AM
  #241
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I'll bite.

So what are they doing? Beating up on teams the caliber of the Milwaukee Admirals who on the basis of watching most of this game would have to be up there with the Columbus Blue Jackets in terms of futile and useless opposition.

Heres what I saw: Even in the first 6mins of this game you know its going to go save for divine intervention.

A sadsack Admirals club are playing riverboat gambler hockey trading chances with OKC. Gee, wonder how thats going to work out for them. I think Hall had two breakaways in the first 8mins (my stream cut out a couple times) I counted 12 serious scoring chances combined(both clubs) in the first 6mins of the game.

Again, how is this game going to turn out?

Look, a win is a win is a win, better than losing, But to say much of anything about what a performance like this means against an opponent that couldn't care less about the result tonight is overstating it.

Yeah, when its free bingo night on the calender the boys collect pts. Its what they learn to do against good opposition that matters. This is a game that a clown like Omark would bag 3-4pts in.
The bolded statements are among the most ridiculous that I have ever read on this board and that is saying something. The Admirals are not the worst team in the AHL for one like the BJ's are, for two if they didn't care why were they busy fighting and playing physical? They were missing their top scorer tonight, that surely didn't help their cause. I guess you'd prefer if the Barons laid down and lost tonight, your take is beyond bizarre.

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11-18-2012, 12:32 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
We agree on quite a lot on this board but as for the above I couldn't disagree more.

Of any NHL club the Oilers development stands to be most adversely impacted by a year lockout. The worst possible result any Oiler fan should want.

This is formative years for this club to bond, gell, learn how to be an NHL winning club etc. Its a year we're not getting back if its flushed. This puts our whole development stable 1 year back and we're currently team development in the entire NHL.

This year is exactly what this rebuild through youth development team doesn't need.
After reading your argument, I see your point completely.

My hope is that Eberle/Hall/Yakupov/RNH/Shultz and to a lesser extent Hemsky/Smid/Gagner and everyone else playing not in Edmonton take the year and start winning.

Now as you pointed out, they're not winning together, which is a problem. The other side of the coin (which is what I would like to see) is that they learn to win. They get mad at losing, and they find it unacceptable. That was not happening for the Oilers in the NHL. We lost too many 1 goal games, and, although I have no inside knowledge from the locker room, I believe it became acceptable to lose. Really, based on the leadership and the quality of play, I think it was ok to be a loser. I think coaching is to blame for that, as well as the vets. Still, it was a losing culture, rivaled only by Columbus, IMO.

What I wish to see is OKC win. And win big. That has not yet happened. I want all the vets playing abroad (including Hemsky), regain their confidence and their offensive instincts. I then want them to come back, and a year later, I want them to tell Shawn that no, it's actually not ok to lose. I want them to tell Khabby that you need to make that save. And I want them to say: "we're winners when you guys aren't here. This is our team, and if you can't win, get out." Really what I am hoping for is a culture change.

With that being said, how do I know this will happen? They might all come back, keep on losing, and be a year behind where they should be (as you might be correctly pointing out).

Side note, I actually think Calgary/San Jose/Detroit will most likely be hurt by this lost year. They aren't getting any younger.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

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11-18-2012, 12:36 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
The bolded statements are among the most ridiculous that I have ever read on this board and that is saying something. The Admirals are not the worst team in the AHL for one like the BJ's are, for two if they didn't care why were they busy fighting and playing physical? They were missing their top scorer tonight, that surely didn't help their cause. I guess you'd prefer if the Barons laid down and lost tonight, your take is beyond bizarre.
Why not actually read and try to follow what I'm putting down. This Admirals performance tonight was bizarre. They were trading chances with Schultz, Nall, Eberle, RNH. Ask yourself why any team with a clue, playing on the road, with no ability to match lines, would choose to do that.

The admirals performance was disgusting. A team that gave up on any sense of gameplan in the first few minutes and started running around.

Sure I want the kids to have some success but not against token resistance.

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11-18-2012, 12:37 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
To summarize: When they fail to produce, they suck. When they produce, the opponent sucks so it doesn't count.

Your schtick is embarrassing.
I think their real mettle will need to be shown in the playoffs.

The standard was set last year. Doing worse than they did last year in the playoffs would be a failure.

Getting at least one round farther would be so-so.

And only making the Calder final and winning it would be a success.

I don't think it is too far fetched to demand this from this squad. Mediocrity should not be acceptable. This is a stacked team on paper, but Calgary destroyed them.

Production is good to see, but we cannot assume that putting up points is enough for success.

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11-18-2012, 12:38 AM
  #245
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I'll bite.

So what are they doing? Beating up on teams the caliber of the Milwaukee Admirals who on the basis of watching most of this game would have to be up there with the Columbus Blue Jackets in terms of futile and useless opposition.

Heres what I saw: Even in the first 6mins of this game you know its going to go save for divine intervention.

A sadsack Admirals club are playing riverboat gambler hockey trading chances with OKC. Gee, wonder how thats going to work out for them. I think Hall had two breakaways in the first 8mins (my stream cut out a couple times) I counted 12 serious scoring chances combined(both clubs) in the first 6mins of the game.

Again, how is this game going to turn out?

Look, a win is a win is a win, better than losing, But to say much of anything about what a performance like this means against an opponent that couldn't care less about the result tonight is overstating it.

Yeah, when its free bingo night on the calender the boys collect pts. Its what they learn to do against good opposition that matters. This is a game that a clown like Omark would bag 3-4pts in.
You're trying way too hard to play devils advocate. It's getting pretty silly at this point.

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11-18-2012, 12:40 AM
  #246
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Why not actually read and try to follow what I'm putting down. This Admirals performance tonight was bizarre. They were trading chances with Schultz, Nall, Eberle, RNH. Ask yourself why any team with a clue, playing on the road, with no ability to match lines, would choose to do that.

The admirals performance was disgusting. A team that gave up on any sense of gameplan in the first few minutes and started running around.

Sure I want the kids to have some success but not against token resistance.
I caught the game from the 2nd on, I didn't see the first. That said many have said that the kids can't play 5 on 5 worth a lick, so why wouldn't other teams run and gun against them? If they are weak defensively then they may well give up as many or more than they score. IMO you can't have it both ways, if they suck 5 on 5 then what is there to lose by playing an offensive minded game against them?

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11-18-2012, 12:42 AM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
The bolded statements are among the most ridiculous that I have ever read on this board and that is saying something. The Admirals are not the worst team in the AHL for one like the BJ's are, for two if they didn't care why were they busy fighting and playing physical? They were missing their top scorer tonight, that surely didn't help their cause. I guess you'd prefer if the Barons laid down and lost tonight, your take is beyond bizarre.
I see what Replacement is saying.

Without putting words in his mouth, I think he means that we should not anoint Ebs/RNH/Hall as the next Messiah since the team they played was not very organized tonight.

I don't think he is bashing them, just that the quality of opposition has been better.

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11-18-2012, 12:42 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by ales83fan View Post
After reading your argument, I see your point completely.

My hope is that Eberle/Hall/Yakupov/RNH/Shultz and to a lesser extent Hemsky/Smid/Gagner and everyone else playing not in Edmonton take the year and start winning.

Now as you pointed out, they're not winning together, which is a problem. The other side of the coin (which is what I would like to see) is that they learn to win. They get mad at losing, and they find it unacceptable. That was not happening for the Oilers in the NHL. We lost too many 1 goal games, and, although I have no inside knowledge from the locker room, I believe it became acceptable to lose. Really, based on the leadership and the quality of play, I think it was ok to be a loser. I think coaching is to blame for that, as well as the vets. Still, it was a losing culture, rivaled only by Columbus, IMO.

What I wish to see is OKC win. And win big. That has not yet happened. I want all the vets playing abroad (including Hemsky), regain their confidence and their offensive instincts. I then want them to come back, and a year later, I want them to tell Shawn that no, it's actually not ok to lose. I want them to tell Khabby that you need to make that save. And I want them to say: "we're winners when you guys aren't here. This is our team, and if you can't win, get out." Really what I am hoping for is a culture change.

With that being said, how do I know this will happen? They might all come back, keep on losing, and be a year behind where they should be (as you might be correctly pointing out).

Side note, I actually think Calgary/San Jose/Detroit will most likely be hurt by this lost year. They aren't getting any younger.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Well, my thoughts are repetitive. I discount the "learning to win" theory. I think that takes place at the NHL level and not much is going to be a substitute for actually winning there. What I would want to see from the players (wherever they are) is more adroitly understanding every facet of the game, how to read pressure, anticipate, learn to play agianst pressure, coverage, NZ play, learn to pickpocket, learn that defence first equals offense. These being the types of things that good NHL teams and players have to learn. What we get instead is feasting on teams that don't bring any competitve opposition or milking results on PP and 4 on 4 OT.

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11-18-2012, 12:47 AM
  #249
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Well, my thoughts are repetitive. I discount the "learning to win" theory. I think that takes place at the NHL level and not much is going to be a substitute for actually winning there. What I would want to see from the players (wherever they are) is more adroitly understanding every facet of the game, how to read pressure, anticipate, learn to play agianst pressure, coverage, NZ play, learn to pickpocket, learn that defence first equals offense. These being the types of things that good NHL teams and players have to learn. What we get instead is feasting on teams that don't bring any competitve opposition or milking results on PP and 4 on 4 OT.
Fair enough.

More than anything, I might be trying to find a silver lining in the Lockout.

Obviously I hope my prediction is correct, but I have no statistical proof this has happened in the past, in any sport, not just hockey.

I agree that the things you listed are all things they need to learn.

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11-18-2012, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I caught the game from the 2nd on, I didn't see the first. That said many have said that the kids can't play 5 on 5 worth a lick, so why wouldn't other teams run and gun against them? If they are weak defensively then they may well give up as many or more than they score. IMO you can't have it both ways, if they suck 5 on 5 then what is there to lose by playing an offensive minded game against them?
You should've seen the first before calling me out on this then. I watched the first and second periods. I know what I saw in the first period which was basically a team that felt overconfident that they hung around with OKC and content to go riverhockey with the Barons in the second game. Hey, good that we have the euthanasia for that but its no surprise.

Don't discount this, I love that we have guys that can go jugular when they see this and on the balance of chances are going to win most games when they trade with this level of opposition. Obviously the Admirals aren't going to match finish, arguably the Admirals club approached this game with full on delusion that they could.

But you're never going to see this futility in the NHL. I only mentioned the Blue Jackets because its as close as the NHL usually comes.

If this club can go 5 0n 5 with a well coached, well prepared team playing system hockey then I'll credit the production. But whenever we do face something like that you note a discernible lack of production.


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