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Milwaukee Admirals @ OKC Barons, Saturday 11/17 6PM MDT, Where's The Offense?

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Old
11-18-2012, 12:48 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by ales83fan View Post
I see what Replacement is saying.

Without putting words in his mouth, I think he means that we should not anoint Ebs/RNH/Hall as the next Messiah since the team they played was not very organized tonight.

I don't think he is bashing them, just that the quality of opposition has been better.
And who has in this thread? No matter how you slice it Eberle and RNH are among the league leaders in points while facing the oppositions best shutdown players and PK's. I have yet to hear a single positive from Replacement sans Schultz about the Barons all year long and I find it bizarre that he would be crapping on them for putting points on the board tonight while the game was chippy and Milwaukee was chasing the tying goal from the 2nd period on. When you are trailing you usually open things up last I checked, unless of course it's better to just go into lock down mode and lose 2-1.

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11-18-2012, 12:53 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
You're trying way too hard to play devils advocate. It's getting pretty silly at this point.
Not at all. First of all remember what type of hockey I prefer, what type of hockey I advocate, and which type of teams I figure have a chance.

Note me pciking the LA Kings to win the Cup in the first round last year. Actually after the first game or two in the Nucks series.

I liked well coached sides that are playing, and believe in their system. Conversely clubs like the Blue Jackets are busy doing nothing year after year. You know well that I chronically discount results against teams that are like that. Regardless of league.

I put stock in what a club accomplishes against GOOD clubs. In this respect I'm no different than Glen Sather who would admonish a club that put too much stock into wins against the Leafs, Blues, Nucks, or Northstars and tell his boys that they haven't done a thing until they learn to beat the Flyers, Islanders, Bruins. Teams that actually played a system.

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11-18-2012, 12:54 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
And who has in this thread? No matter how you slice it Eberle and RNH are among the league leaders in points while facing the oppositions best shutdown players and PK's. I have yet to hear a single positive from Replacement sans Schultz about the Barons all year long and I find it bizarre that he would be crapping on them for putting points on the board tonight while the game was chippy and Milwaukee was chasing the tying goal from the 2nd period on. When you are trailing you usually open things up last I checked, unless of course it's better to just go into lock down mode and lose 2-1.
Sorry, I wasn't implying anyone was doing that.

I personally rate their performance on the season as ok. They have had some ok nights, some really good nights, and some outright terrible nights.

This, to me, was an ok night.

I think they weren't taking the AHL seriously to start, which is why they had the blowouts earlier in the month. I also think that being shut out as a team at the AHL level is fairly pathetic, considering the fire power we have on paper.

While they scored some goals, I think their cycle game was lacking today. I also think that they could impose their will more 5 on 5, considering their skill level.

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11-18-2012, 12:56 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
And who has in this thread? No matter how you slice it Eberle and RNH are among the league leaders in points while facing the oppositions best shutdown players and PK's. I have yet to hear a single positive from Replacement sans Schultz about the Barons all year long and I find it bizarre that he would be crapping on them for putting points on the board tonight while the game was chippy and Milwaukee was chasing the tying goal from the 2nd period on. When you are trailing you usually open things up last I checked, unless of course it's better to just go into lock down mode and lose 2-1.
OK. Hall's presence has revitilized this club. Hall is one player who no matter what, will put down his brand and stamp on a game EVERY game. The one personality on this club(and now Schultz) who will play every game and show his signature self that got him to the show in EVERY game.

Eberle isn't close to that guy(maybe unfair for me to compare) and RNH is still learning about consistency but is still invisible and ineffective on many nights.

You know I like these players as well. Doesn't stop me from having expectations that they get better because they sure as hell need to get a whole lot better in allround game.

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11-18-2012, 12:57 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
You should've seen the first before calling me out on this then. I watched the first and second periods. I know what I saw in the first period which was basically a team that felt overconfident that they hung around with OKC and content to go riverhockey with the Barons in the second game. Hey, good that we have the euthanasia for that but its no surprise.

Don't discount this, I love that we have guys that can go jugular when they see this and on the balance of chances are going to win most games when they trade with this level of opposition. Obviously the Admirals aren't going to match finish, arguably the Admirals club approached this game with full on delusion that they could.

But you're never going to see this futility in the NHL. I only mentioned the Blue Jackets because its as close as the NHL usually comes.

If this club can go 5 0n 5 with a well coached, well prepared team playing system hockey then I'll credit the production. But whenever we do face something like that you note a discernible lack of production.
There are 4 teams in the Western conference who have scored less goals than Milwaukee has, they have also scored 27 ES goals to the Barons 26, and they also have the leagues 5th best PK, this is not as poor of a team as you are portraying them to be. Had the kids not scored tonight they would've gotten crapped on, since they couldn't tell the Admirals to play better so that their performances could have more "cred" they just did what they could and pulled out a win, shame on them!

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11-18-2012, 01:04 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
There are 4 teams in the Western conference who have scored less goals than Milwaukee has, they have also scored 27 ES goals to the Barons 26, and they also have the leagues 5th best PK, this is not as poor of a team as you are portraying them to be. Had the kids not scored tonight they would've gotten crapped on, since they couldn't tell the Admirals to play better so that their performances could have more "cred" they just did what they could and pulled out a win, shame on them!
A lot of my evaluation of clubs in present day has a lot to do with GA as you know. In present day the goals you keep out of the net is what wins hockey games. Especially in the playoffs when the games matter.

Milwaukee was 10th place in conference when we started this two game set, maybe worse now.

I honestly don't know how the Admirals play on most nights. But I know how they played this game and it wasn't one that was going to result in a win unless Schultz and the boys were hopelessly hungover.

Thing is if you trade chances with ringers you get burned. Especially at this level. This is like Denmark deciding to trade chances with Germany in a WC game. You just know how thats going to end up because one club has sublime finish.

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11-18-2012, 01:06 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Not at all. First of all remember what type of hockey I prefer, what type of hockey I advocate, and which type of teams I figure have a chance.

Note me pciking the LA Kings to win the Cup in the first round last year. Actually after the first game or two in the Nucks series.

I liked well coached sides that are playing, and believe in their system. Conversely clubs like the Blue Jackets are busy doing nothing year after year. You know well that I chronically discount results against teams that are like that. Regardless of league.

I put stock in what a club accomplishes against GOOD clubs. In this respect I'm no different than Glen Sather who would admonish a club that put too much stock into wins against the Leafs, Blues, Nucks, or Northstars and tell his boys that they haven't done a thing until they learn to beat the Flyers, Islanders, Bruins. Teams that actually played a system.
Then why watch games against mediocre clubs at all? If there's no enjoyment from beating teams that maybe you should, then why watch?

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Originally Posted by ales83fan View Post
Sorry, I wasn't implying anyone was doing that.

I personally rate their performance on the season as ok. They have had some ok nights, some really good nights, and some outright terrible nights.

This, to me, was an ok night.

I think they weren't taking the AHL seriously to start, which is why they had the blowouts earlier in the month. I also think that being shut out as a team at the AHL level is fairly pathetic, considering the fire power we have on paper.

While they scored some goals, I think their cycle game was lacking today. I also think that they could impose their will more 5 on 5, considering their skill level.
Hall's playmaking is horrible right now, IMO they had some good cycles down low albeit few and far between. I also don't hear squat about their own zone play when Nuge was very good in that regard in the 2nd and 3rd periods. All that I hear are negatives.

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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
OK. Hall's presence has revitilized this club. Hall is one player who no matter what, will put down his brand and stamp on a game EVERY game. The one personality on this club(and now Schultz) who will play every game and show his signature self that got him to the show in EVERY game.

Eberle isn't close to that guy(maybe unfair for me to compare) and RNH is still learning about consistency but is still invisible and ineffective on many nights.

You know I like these players as well. Doesn't stop me from having expectations that they get better because they sure as hell need to get a whole lot better in allround game.
RNH is a cerebral player not a flash and dash player, while it's easy to crap on him for not looking as flashy as Hall, the fact of the matter is that he was out there playing hard in all 3 zones and playing a physical brand of hockey, and oh yeah all the while putting up a measly 3 points.

As for Eberle, all he does is rack up the points by making smart plays in the O zone, not sure why the 2nd leading scorer in the league deserves to get crapped on at the moment. You prop Hall up when IMO he was by far the worst player on his line in the 2nd and 3rd, it just doesn't jive IMO.

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11-18-2012, 01:06 AM
  #258
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For what its worth, that gaff from Marincin was due to a deflection off a poke check. While his brain still farted, it wasn't as bad as some of his clean giveaways.


edit,

You know how in the playoffs most players seem to find a whole new level of play? Endless energy and strength and creativity etc etc. Well I think that same inherent psychology is at play when they're in the AHL. No matter how much they're trying, their play just isn't going to be as elevated as last season.

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11-18-2012, 01:06 AM
  #259
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I hate to see what OKC will be when the lockout ends and they lose a lot of their best players.

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11-18-2012, 01:10 AM
  #260
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I hate to see what OKC will be when the lockout ends and they lose a lot of their best players.
Meh. People will step up

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11-18-2012, 01:14 AM
  #261
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Meh. People will step up
Hamilton is on a one game scoring streak!


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11-18-2012, 01:14 AM
  #262
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A lot of my evaluation of clubs in present day has a lot to do with GA as you know. In present day the goals you keep out of the net is what wins hockey games. Especially in the playoffs when the games matter.
So coach Nelson must be a personal favorite of yours then since the Barons were 2nd best in the league last year and a measly 1 goal behind Toronto.

Quote:
Milwaukee was 10th place in conference when we started this two game set, maybe worse now.

I honestly don't know how the Admirals play on most nights. But I know how they played this game and it wasn't one that was going to result in a win unless Schultz and the boys were hopelessly hungover.

Thing is if you trade chances with ringers you get burned. Especially at this level. This is like Denmark deciding to trade chances with Germany in a WC game. You just know how thats going to end up because one club has sublime finish.
They peppered us with 40+ shots on Friday, they are not a bad team. And they have scored similarly at ES to OKC, so if you put weight in ES play they should be able to keep up with our team who has been very cold 5 on 5 of late.

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11-18-2012, 01:15 AM
  #263
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Then why watch games against mediocre clubs at all? If there's no enjoyment from beating teams that maybe you should, then why watch?
Good question but in fairness I stopped watching. Lost interest in what was a foregone conclusion tonight.


Quote:
Hall's playmaking is horrible right now, IMO they had some good cycles down low albeit few and far between. I also don't hear squat about their own zone play when Nuge was very good in that regard in the 2nd and 3rd periods. All that I hear are negatives.
I don't see Hall as a playmaker first and foremost. Hall is a guy that scares opponents stone cold sober by taking any rush, any moment, any shift in a game and making D, and guys trying to cover him drop their jaw going "oh ****". Hall is just a dominating player that beasts against any level of opposition put in front of him. The one guy we have that CAN produce against the best possible efforts. In short, they guy you can't shutdown. He gets every bit of respect from me for being that type of player.


Quote:
RNH is a cerebral player not a flash and dash player, while it's easy to crap on him for not looking as flashy as Hall, the fact of the matter is that he was out there playing hard in all 3 zones and playing a physical brand of hockey, and oh yeah all the while putting up a measly 3 points.
You going to tell me here I don't comprehend RNH's game? The game I loved for years and wanted the Oilers to draft him and broke down in detail why? You got a shorter memory than me my friend.

Quote:
As for Eberle, all he does is rack up the points by making smart plays in the O zone, not sure why the 2nd leading scorer in the league deserves to get crapped on at the moment. You prop Hall up when IMO he was by far the worst player on his line in the 2nd and 3rd, it just doesn't jive IMO.
Probably because we look at hockey different ways. Hall is the indispensable tool on the club that brings premium game to any game, Yakupov will be, RNH in time, then Eberle or Gagner, the world spinning as it should.

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11-18-2012, 01:16 AM
  #264
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Meh. People will step up
Yup, Green should be back eventually, Arco is a good AHL scorer, Marincin gets more of an offensive role, guys like Rajala and Cornet get called back up, it'll still be a good team.

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11-18-2012, 01:19 AM
  #265
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So coach Nelson must be a personal favorite of yours then since the Barons were 2nd best in the league last year and a measly 1 goal behind Toronto.
Nelson is effective when coaching AHL level players. Don't confuse that with my take on how he's doing this year coaching players that are beyond the AHL.

Quote:
They peppered us with 40+ shots on Friday, they are not a bad team. And they have scored similarly at ES to OKC, so if you put weight in ES play they should be able to keep up with our team who has been very cold 5 on 5 of late.
How did they play tonight in your opinion?

You think its wise to open the floodgates against some worldclass scoring talent? I've made my position clear.

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11-18-2012, 01:22 AM
  #266
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Good question but in fairness I stopped watching. Lost interest in what was a foregone conclusion tonight.



I don't see Hall as a playmaker first and foremost. Hall is a guy that scares opponents stone cold sober by taking any rush, any moment, any shift in a game and making D, and guys trying to cover him drop their jaw going "oh ****". Hall is just a dominating player that beasts against any level of opposition put in front of him. The one guy we have that CAN produce against the best possible efforts. In short, they guy you can't shutdown. He gets every bit of respect from me for being that type of player.


You going to tell me here I don't comprehend RNH's game? The game I loved for years and wanted the Oilers to draft him and broke down in detail why? You got a shorter memory than me my friend.

Probably because we look at hockey different ways. Hall is the indispensable tool on the club that brings premium game to any game, Yakupov will be, RNH in time, then Eberle or Gagner, the world spinning as it should.
Hall will have to get better along the boards, clearing the zone, and passing. He is the biggest player on his line and will have to do some of the grunt work if he wants to stay there at the next level. Yes he's rusty and will get better, but his play speaks for itself right now.

I think that you are selling RNH's play short right now.

Now you mention Gagner with Eberle? Really?

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11-18-2012, 01:25 AM
  #267
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Nelson is effective when coaching AHL level players. Don't confuse that with my take on how he's doing this year coaching players that are beyond the AHL.

How did they play tonight in your opinion?

You think its wise to open the floodgates against some worldclass scoring talent? I've made my position clear.
Nelson is turning the ship around IMO, we'll see how things go the next 10 games or so.

Also I fail to see what your beef is with how they played in the 2nd and beyond, they were down and when teams are down they usually open it up a bit and rely heavily on their goaltending to save their bacon, why do you think that teams that go down a goal or two against teams like Phoenix have a devil of a time coming back? Score on them first and it's a different game.

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11-18-2012, 01:30 AM
  #268
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Hall will have to get better along the boards, clearing the zone, and passing. He is the biggest player on his line and will have to do some of the grunt work if he wants to stay there at the next level. Yes he's rusty and will get better, but his play speaks for itself right now.

I think that you are selling RNH's play short right now.

Now you mention Gagner with Eberle? Really?
Hall hasn't played hockey in forever. He's had the type of injury that limits even how he could practice, stay in top form, etc.

Really its amazing he's beasting as well as he is. He's head and shoulders beyond the other two in leaving his mark in key well played games.

I'll give you a glimpse of that. Who pulls out the W for the Barons last week against a good Heat squad? Hall on a brilliant close in finish and Schultz in OT. Guys that bring it even in the difficult games and that are likely to always do.

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11-18-2012, 01:38 AM
  #269
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Hall hasn't played hockey in forever. He's had the type of injury that limits even how he could practice, stay in top form, etc.

Really its amazing he's beasting as well as he is. He's head and shoulders beyond the other two in leaving his mark in key well played games.

I'll give you a glimpse of that. Who pulls out the W for the Barons last week against a good Heat squad? Hall on a brilliant close in finish and Schultz in OT. Guys that bring it even in the difficult games and that are likely to always do.
And who assisted on both of those goals?

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11-18-2012, 01:43 AM
  #270
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And who assisted on both of those goals?
Silly.

Because it doesn't take a whole lot of skill to throw the puck back to the point and watch Schultz do his magic. I can complete that pass.

Next, Hall scored a goal on a nothing chance. Made a goal from a tight angle by perfectly roofing it in a split second instant. A beauty of a goal. If I recall it was off a play where the puck bounced toward him.

Sorry if my recall is off.

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11-18-2012, 01:51 AM
  #271
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Silly.

Because it doesn't take a whole lot of skill to throw the puck back to the point and watch Schultz do his magic. I can complete that pass.

Next, Hall scored a goal on a nothing chance. Made a goal from a tight angle by perfectly roofing it in a split second instant. A beauty of a goal. If I recall it was off a play where the puck bounced toward him.

Sorry if my recall is off.
Schultz' OT goal was a great smart heads up pass from Eberle and a fantastic shot from Schultz.

Schultz, Eberle and RNH are 1, 2, and tied for 3 in league scoring... I don't quite know what you are expecting. 1st... 1st... and 1st? I know scoring points isn't everything, but once again the OKC get a win on the backs of points from the big 4 who do the bulk of the scoring for this team. Points in 4 straight games including three wins.

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11-18-2012, 01:57 AM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Silly.

Because it doesn't take a whole lot of skill to throw the puck back to the point and watch Schultz do his magic. I can complete that pass.

Next, Hall scored a goal on a nothing chance. Made a goal from a tight angle by perfectly roofing it in a split second instant. A beauty of a goal. If I recall it was off a play where the puck bounced toward him.

Sorry if my recall is off.
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11-18-2012, 01:58 AM
  #273
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Paajarvi still has a ways to go, but he was very solid on the PK as well, that is what I envision him being for us at this point, 3rd line winger and PK specialist, nothing wrong with that IMO.
There may be nothing "wrong" with that, but its a far cry from what many of his boosters were claiming he would do in the NHL. And its certainly not the kind of player we expect from a 10th overall draft pick.

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11-18-2012, 01:59 AM
  #274
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Schultz' OT goal was a great smart heads up pass from Eberle and a fantastic shot from Schultz.

Schultz, Eberle and RNH are 1, 2, and tied for 3 in league scoring... I don't quite know what you are expecting. 1st... 1st... and 1st? I know scoring points isn't everything, but once again the OKC get a win on the backs of points from the big 4 who do the bulk of the scoring for this team. Points in 4 straight games including three wins.
How often have teammates finished 1-2-3 in league scoring in NA pro hockey? Probably not very, we could well see that on this club if the lockout lasts all year, hell we might see 1-2-3-4 if they start racking up some big games and all 4 stay healthy.

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11-18-2012, 02:00 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Silly.

Because it doesn't take a whole lot of skill to throw the puck back to the point and watch Schultz do his magic. I can complete that pass.

Next, Hall scored a goal on a nothing chance. Made a goal from a tight angle by perfectly roofing it in a split second instant. A beauty of a goal. If I recall it was off a play where the puck bounced toward him.

Sorry if my recall is off.
I thought Hall tossed the puck into the crowd, RNH seamed it through right onto Hall's tape, then Hall roofed it. There was like 4-5 guys crowding in front of the net though, so it was kind of hard to tell exactly what happened.

Don't discount RNH's assists to Schultz though. It's not like anyone can do what RNH does. It's not just the pass itself, he draws players out of position beautifully to open Schultz up and give him a good opportunity. Eberle does the same thing, they're both really good at opening up opposing teams defence for Schultz.

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