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Slava Fetisov says KHL wants Asian Division "in the next couple of years"

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Old
11-17-2012, 11:25 PM
  #26
saffronleaf
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Originally Posted by nabbyfan View Post
No way. I've lived in Latvia and can tell you absolutely nobody there would go for a combined 'Baltic Team'. Hockey is not at all popular in the Baltics besides in Latvia and some of the areas around Vilnius, notably Elektrenai, Lithuania. But the fact that Latvia has their own teams is such a great sense of pride for the people that there is no sense in combining them, besides, all the players would be Latvian anyway except for the addition of Zubrus.
Fair enough. I do not know much about hockey culture in the Baltic states and was merely applying a method used in other sports (of combining smaller countries in international competitions so that they can be competitive).

How is hockey in Latvia? Do you think Latvia will be able to become more competitive in international tournaments? Their KHL team seems very well supported.

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11-18-2012, 12:17 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Fair enough. I do not know much about hockey culture in the Baltic states and was merely applying a method used in other sports (of combining smaller countries in international competitions so that they can be competitive).

How is hockey in Latvia? Do you think Latvia will be able to become more competitive in international tournaments? Their KHL team seems very well supported.
With a population of just over 2 million the fact that they are able to consistently stay among the elite division of the World Championships is quite good. They are one of the more competitive nations out there, its just a simple fact that they can only really go so far with such a small base.

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11-18-2012, 12:50 AM
  #28
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Awesome. They should put a few teams on the moon as well.

After all, if you are going to run an unsustainable league, why not be the mother of unsustainable leagues?

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11-18-2012, 12:55 AM
  #29
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Barry Beck is coaching the Hong Kong Academy of Ice Hockey, one of the owners of a BCHL team is there, and the new IIHF Vice President for Asia and Oceania is from Hong Kong.

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11-18-2012, 01:11 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Wouldn't be surprised. Would have to imagine that the idea of having teams in a few Chinese, Korean, and Japanese markets would be very attractive to the KHL. Even if they're barely followed on a proportional sense by the general population, would have to think that Tokyo and Seoul and Beijing and Shanghai would have a fairly easy time finding a niche market and putting 5,000-10,000 butts in the seat per game.
they can't even fill wherever they play for basketball and football games, so yeah, im pretty sure they would have a hard time finding that many people. chinese in general don't follow sports, period. they'll follow personalities like lebron or kobe, but that's it, they don't even watch the games.

i mean, you'd be guaranteed a thousand canadians at those games minimum, but there are only so many of us here...

and beijing's biggest rink sits about 100 people and is lost in the boonies. you could have games in the worker's stadium, winter classic style though

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11-18-2012, 02:49 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Fair enough. I do not know much about hockey culture in the Baltic states and was merely applying a method used in other sports (of combining smaller countries in international competitions so that they can be competitive).

How is hockey in Latvia? Do you think Latvia will be able to become more competitive in international tournaments? Their KHL team seems very well supported.
Well just this summer there was girgensons drafted in 1st round and blueger in 2nd and then theres guys like rihards bukarts and egle for 2014 draft. So yes we will be more competitve in the future.the new bright prospects for latvia are only now emerging.

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11-18-2012, 03:35 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Fair enough. I do not know much about hockey culture in the Baltic states and was merely applying a method used in other sports (of combining smaller countries in international competitions so that they can be competitive).

How is hockey in Latvia? Do you think Latvia will be able to become more competitive in international tournaments? Their KHL team seems very well supported.
A completely serious question, aside from cricket where the majority of Caribbean nations compete as the West Indies. What other sports band together smaller nations to make them competitive? I know in soccer (which I really don't follow) many non-States have teams that compete in World Cup qualifying, Faroe Islands and the component nations of the UK off the top of my head.

I believe the IIHF has made it clear that their membership is one member=one team. I remember at one point the Parti Quebecois (one of the political parties in Quebec, currently the governing party) put forth a proposal for Quebec to ice their own team at IIHF events. I don't know whether the PQ went so far as to actually submit paperwork with the IIHF, but seems to me Rene Fassel from the IIHF said something to the effect of unless Quebec were to quit Hockey Canada and have their membership of the IIHF approved (which was unlikely as there is no independence of Quebec, it is a constituent part of Canada whether the PQ like it or not), they could not ice a team in IIHF competition.

I know what might be used against this is the Canada East and Canada West at the World Junior A Championship and the 4 Canadas at the World Under-17 Hockey Challenge. However, those are not IIHF sanctioned events, they are run by Hockey Canada. Thus, Hockey Canada sets the rules and not the IIHF.

My point in all this? I don't foresee the IIHF allowing this for starters. Secondly, as another poster mentioned Latvia is head and shoulders above Lithuania and Estonia, so the roster would be filled almost exclusively with Latvians. So I really don't see the net benefit for Lithuania and Estonia to disband their own national teams and send their monetary resources to a Team Baltic. The two countries likely are better off developing their own players and continuing in Division I (or whatever division they are in currently).

As for expansion of the KHL, I really don't see a move into China, South Korea and Japan as a negative. Much like a KHL team in Italy (where apparently Milan is supposed to join next season), it doesn't really need to have a solid basis of top level players to join the KHL. Now granted, Japan, China and South Korea don't have the EU labour protection that Milan and HC Lev (I believe they do too) have that restricts any sort of limits of EU citizens on a roster.

If the KHL found a owner in Japan (i.e. a large corporation like Japanese baseball has), it might be the closest thing to a bidding war for players since the WHA. Of course the Japanese team would have to stick to the KHL's cap, but I believe the KHL allows for a marquee player or two to be outside of the cap. So the Japanese team in theory could launch a bidding war over a big name NHL free agent. This is exactly why the KHL is looking at heading into Japan is for this reason. The KHL wants to make the world believe they are a viable alternative to the NHL and not simply a place for washed-up NHLers. (Essentially, right now in non-lockout seasons, the KHL is akin to Japanese baseball where the homegrown players are quite talented, but the imports are largely players who couldn't find NHL deals as opposed to going to Russia and turning down NHL offers.) If anyone has the money and the business sense to do it, it would be a large Japanese corporation. The best idea would be to find a corporation currently involved in the NPB as they would understand the sports scene.

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11-18-2012, 03:56 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Fair enough. I do not know much about hockey culture in the Baltic states and was merely applying a method used in other sports (of combining smaller countries in international competitions so that they can be competitive).

How is hockey in Latvia? Do you think Latvia will be able to become more competitive in international tournaments? Their KHL team seems very well supported.
They should have a team in India as it is the second most populous nation. Does India have ice hockey at all?

Also Mongolia would be ok too.

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11-18-2012, 04:03 AM
  #34
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just na 2 cents to discussion ....

Lithuania has already a team in MHL B, 2nd tier junior league based in Russia and other countries. Unfortunatelly for Lithuania, majority of players are imports from Slovakia/Czech rep and Russia. Estonia wants to join MHL B as well. Latvia has one team, juniors of Dinamo Riga, in MHL A (elite junior league) and 3 teams (if I remember) in MHL B. Btw some guy jumped from MHL B to CHL this summer.

Yes, HC LEV Prague and possible Milano are in EU, so no restrictions of employees from EU. The same in Slovan Bratislava, Slovakia, playing rookie KHL season. Generally EU rules are not important, because KHL has NO limits of imports for clubs from EU member states (only 5 domestic players of 25 season roster).

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11-18-2012, 06:02 AM
  #35
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There's already the AIHL so I dare say teams would move from that into it. Create a few more teams in China, Japan and Korea and the winner of that group of people could go to the play-offs.

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11-18-2012, 11:39 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Awesome. They should put a few teams on the moon as well.

After all, if you are going to run an unsustainable league, why not be the mother of unsustainable leagues?
Agreed... They should try to model the KHL after something like the NHL as that league seems to run pretty smoothly.

The KHL isn't all that different from a lot of sports/leagues. Some of the most famous soccer clubs in the world are propped up by billionaires or are in 10/100 millions of dollars in dept that they apparently have no intention of ever paying back. Aren't most Japanese baseball teams huge money losers that have their loses writen off by the conglomerates that own them? I get what you are saying as it does all seem like a bit on the edge of madness but the way the KHL is running isn't really anything new.

The moon idea doesn't sound all that far off though. At the very least I get the impression that if I had a had enough money kicking around the KHL would give me a team that I could run out of any city in the world of my choosing. Lagos, Buenos Aires, Hamilton... Sure!!!

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11-18-2012, 09:24 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
They should have a team in India as it is the second most populous nation. Does India have ice hockey at all?

Also Mongolia would be ok too.
India used to be good at field hockey, but that's an entirely different sport. The only markets in India that would be suitable for ice hockey, in terms of having winters, would be mountainous border regions in the north. But those areas aren't very populated. Shimla, Manali, and Srinagar. The former two have populations less than 200,000, and the latter is in Kashmir, which... isn't the safest place to be.

In summary, I don't see a bright future for hockey in India. There is an ice rink in a few cities; I think Chandigarh or Delhi has an ice rink. Still, India is not the market to go after at this point. Cricket absolutely dominates the sports landscape, and outside of cricket, India isn't really into sports or athletics (look at their Olympics performances or even their Olympics viewership).

From reading other posts, in terms of Asia, Japan seems like a wonderful opportunity. It would take a lot of work to make it viable, but hopefully someone with the resources and competence does it.

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11-18-2012, 09:27 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post
A completely serious question, aside from cricket where the majority of Caribbean nations compete as the West Indies. What other sports band together smaller nations to make them competitive? I know in soccer (which I really don't follow) many non-States have teams that compete in World Cup qualifying, Faroe Islands and the component nations of the UK off the top of my head.

I believe the IIHF has made it clear that their membership is one member=one team. I remember at one point the Parti Quebecois (one of the political parties in Quebec, currently the governing party) put forth a proposal for Quebec to ice their own team at IIHF events. I don't know whether the PQ went so far as to actually submit paperwork with the IIHF, but seems to me Rene Fassel from the IIHF said something to the effect of unless Quebec were to quit Hockey Canada and have their membership of the IIHF approved (which was unlikely as there is no independence of Quebec, it is a constituent part of Canada whether the PQ like it or not), they could not ice a team in IIHF competition.

I know what might be used against this is the Canada East and Canada West at the World Junior A Championship and the 4 Canadas at the World Under-17 Hockey Challenge. However, those are not IIHF sanctioned events, they are run by Hockey Canada. Thus, Hockey Canada sets the rules and not the IIHF.

My point in all this? I don't foresee the IIHF allowing this for starters. Secondly, as another poster mentioned Latvia is head and shoulders above Lithuania and Estonia, so the roster would be filled almost exclusively with Latvians. So I really don't see the net benefit for Lithuania and Estonia to disband their own national teams and send their monetary resources to a Team Baltic. The two countries likely are better off developing their own players and continuing in Division I (or whatever division they are in currently).
There is one other example in cricket: Northern Ireland (UK) and the Republic of Ireland share one national cricket team. Hockey and cricket are the main sports I follow, so I don't have many other examples to draw on. I know that cricket treats England & Wales as one country and Scotland as a separate country. Some sporting organizations treat the UK as one national entity. As you said, it's all about how the IIHF operates; it doesn't really matter what other international sporting organizations recognize.

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11-18-2012, 11:56 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
There is one other example in cricket: Northern Ireland (UK) and the Republic of Ireland share one national cricket team. Hockey and cricket are the main sports I follow, so I don't have many other examples to draw on. I know that cricket treats England & Wales as one country and Scotland as a separate country. Some sporting organizations treat the UK as one national entity. As you said, it's all about how the IIHF operates; it doesn't really matter what other international sporting organizations recognize.
Ireland also represents the whole island in the IIHF as well. But that has more to do with the fact that there aren't enough players from either side, and the lack of an arena in the Republic. Only Belfast has an ice rink, where the Belfast Giants of the British league play.

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11-19-2012, 07:38 AM
  #40
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Well just this summer there was girgensons drafted in 1st round and blueger in 2nd and then theres guys like rihards bukarts and egle for 2014 draft. So yes we will be more competitve in the future.the new bright prospects for latvia are only now emerging.
Getting players drafted doesn't mean that they will turn out good players necessarily yet. Believe me, we Finns have experience in that matter.

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11-19-2012, 08:18 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
One step closer to a universal hockey league...

Still, expanding the market to nations whose combined population is almost two billion...

Imagine the amount of talent that could be discovered if hockey took root as an established sport there.
If China embraces hockey, Canada will end up #2.

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11-19-2012, 08:40 AM
  #42
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If China embraces hockey, Canada will end up #2.
Depends how much they embrace it by though.

If they put as much into it as they do the Olympics then they could become a world force.

Men's team are ranked 38th in the World.

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11-19-2012, 08:42 AM
  #43
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Getting players drafted doesn't mean that they will turn out good players necessarily yet. Believe me, we Finns have experience in that matter.
No,but it means that our development system is on the right track.

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11-19-2012, 09:12 AM
  #44
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Hockey is a great game, why wouldn't it be successful... in Asia?
Because Asia and North America are very culturally different? Someone in Asia can say Badminton or table tennis is a great game, why wouldn't it be successful in North America?

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11-19-2012, 10:00 AM
  #45
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For those saying hockey would not work there, consider the Asia League Ice Hockey, which is based in Japan and has teams in both South Korea and China. The Japanese teams are in fine shape, as is the Korean teams, but the Chinese aren't doing so well. But even so the league is able to attrack the occasional ex-fringe NHLer. That is to say that hockey is not foreign to the region, and with a "real" pro league there with better players and bigger names it could do wonders for hockey in the Far East.
That's quite the understatement. I couldn't find aggregate attendance numbers on the official ALIH website but individual game attendance is reported on the game sheets and attendance for the 2 Shanghai games so far has been 67 and 63. Not sure about arena capacity in Japan and Korea either -- attendance for all teams is in the 800-1600 range.

I think "in the next couple of years" may be reasonable with respect to Vladivostok and maybe 2-3 Japanese/Korean teams if we're talking 5-10 years. China is still a very long-term prospect at this point.

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They already have a team on the Chinese border, Amur Khabarovsk. The closest city is Novokuznetsk, which is something like a 6 hour flight away. I think the KHL wants to alieviate that, especially because Khabarovsk is one of the strongest supported teams. Vladivostok is an obvious choice, but the real markets lie in the Asian nations. There just simply isn't enough population in the Russian Far East to maintain a whole division.
Yakutsk is growing, could it eventually get a team or is this a pipe dream similar to Saskatoon in the NHL? That wouldn't really solve the problem though.

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11-21-2012, 12:55 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Fair enough. I do not know much about hockey culture in the Baltic states and was merely applying a method used in other sports (of combining smaller countries in international competitions so that they can be competitive).
No other sport decided to combine independant countries in international competitions, the West Indies cricket team was created a good 70 years before the respective countries became independant.

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Some sporting organizations treat the UK as one national entity. As you said, it's all about how the IIHF operates; it doesn't really matter what other international sporting organizations recognize.
Pretty much every sporting organization regard the UK as one national entity, mainly because the UK is one national entity.

The only sports that do not are sports that have been invented and/or developed in the UK: football, rugby union and cricket. Even rugby league until recently had one combined GB team. The English, Scottish and Welsh football associations predate FIFA and were merely grandfathered in, same for rugby union.


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Yup. Soccer has as much integrity as the Olympics. The numerous betting scandals, the teams that arm hooligans to attack their opponents fans, the violence, the ridiculous diving.
The lockouts.

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11-21-2012, 02:47 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Awesome. They should put a few teams on the moon as well.

After all, if you are going to run an unsustainable league, why not be the mother of unsustainable leagues?
Well compared to the NHL its looking pretty sustainable to me. Three lockouts in 20 years is sustainable?

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11-21-2012, 03:33 PM
  #48
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To be honest I don't even want hockey to become more popular , when things get too popular everywhere everybody will have their thing to say and the game might change and it might destroy hockey altogether.I still can't believe they took out the red line , it's an attack on hockey.
You may want to check your hockey history on that.

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11-22-2012, 09:27 AM
  #49
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If China embraces hockey, Canada will end up #2.
If China can't even get a solid soccer team together, even though they've been working on improving it for years, they're far, far away from getting a good hockey team.

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11-22-2012, 09:44 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Wouldn't be surprised. Would have to imagine that the idea of having teams in a few Chinese, Korean, and Japanese markets would be very attractive to the KHL. Even if they're barely followed on a proportional sense by the general population, would have to think that Tokyo and Seoul and Beijing and Shanghai would have a fairly easy time finding a niche market and putting 5,000-10,000 butts in the seat per game.
Good point, if 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000001% of all Chinese people follow the KHL you still got more followers then there are people in the US and Canada combined.

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