HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

12/13' Offseason/Trades/Proposals: Starting Jan 13, after players vote.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-14-2012, 05:00 PM
  #26
charliolemieux
No Lu-wiki Zone
 
charliolemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,523
vCash: 500
LMAO

I read the thread title and thought it was about the Blue Jay's trade.

charliolemieux is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 05:58 PM
  #27
Ricky Bobby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,409
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
[QUOTE\].
I'm pretty sure his back issues were known prior to the trade, but most importantly, bertuzzi was being boo'd out of every rink, had faced criminal charges and was being sued, needed to get out of the west, and not many teams would have touched him with a ten foot pole because of potential fan backlash and although he had 71 points he only had 25 goals and was commonly thought to have had a poor year due to all around poor play dispite decent numbers. He was also 30. Allen was considered an average NHL defender with upside at that time. That is a terrible return for a young undisputed franchise goalie. Would you make that trade if you were giving up a young Roy, brodeur, or fluery? I wouldn't, I would think IMHO that something had an odor around luongo, I doubt that its any different now. Florida didn't even have a true #1 goalie to replace him on the horizon, they just shipped him out
Quote:
Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
[QUOTE\].
Both times luongo was traded in the past it was for a bag of pucks. Us getting clarke for the pick that became him was the best trade ever involving luongo. Now at 33, with no cup, questions of game 7 mentality, a questionable contract, and a desire by vancouver to be rid of him, all add up in my opinion to a depth trade. All vancouver paid for luongo was a high drafted but meh defensman, a past his prime 40 point a season bertuzzi and a borderline back up goalie. And this was luongo in his prime, and van even got more out of florida in this deal! A late pick and a first round pick meh defender.
A toronto equivelent payment would be: bozak/connolly, komaserik, scrivens (keeping in mind the above reasons why he should be worth less then he was in 2006)
Please gets your facts straight before posting.

Obviously that trade didn't work out for Florida but if Bertuzzi hadn't of run into injury problems it wouldn't have been nearly as bad.

In your original post you called Bertuzzi a past his prime 40 point a season player yet he'd just scored 71 points in 82 games and played for Canada in the Olympics. If he was such an injury case why was he able to play every game that year?

At the time of the trade Luongo also had turned down the Panthers contract offers and was due to become a UFA after the 07 season.

Ricky Bobby is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 07:06 PM
  #28
delirium trigger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Please gets your facts straight before posting.

Obviously that trade didn't work out for Florida but if Bertuzzi hadn't of run into injury problems it wouldn't have been nearly as bad.

In your original post you called Bertuzzi a past his prime 40 point a season player yet he'd just scored 71 points in 82 games and played for Canada in the Olympics. If he was such an injury case why was he able to play every game that year?

At the time of the trade Luongo also had turned down the Panthers contract offers and was due to become a UFA after the 07 season.
Bertuzzis play had very evidently dropped off , despite 71 points, which isn't very hard when over 45 of those were assists playing on the same line as some of the leagues leading and up and coming players. Luongo has emphatically stated that a deal was all but signed, and his trade was a shock.
Even if I discount the injury talk (even though I very much believe I remember that in the discussion around the trade when it happened), we are still talking about a 30 year old player with the most baggage of any player in that era, questions of fan approval in an already struggling market, coming off a season where his play was panned as distracted and soft, despite inflated stats from playing with some of the best players and up and comers of that era. For a league wide touted young, rare franchise goalie who was responsible for all the panthers success, when they didn't even have a replacement for him in there system?!? They didn't even need allen, they already had a young tough group of workhorse Ds, had olesz and roberts on the wing and a crap load of centers to deal to improve the team instead of the only goalie they had. This trade filled no needs florida had and made them instantly worse and put being a playoff team in question. Some thing is wrong here, this deal would never had been done if was fluery,broduer or Roy in their early prime. Something stank about that deal the day it was made and it rotted and got even nastier very very fast. And luongo at this point is worth less now then he was 6 years ago.
Also you would have to think that the recent firing of allaire is a pretty good sign that the leafs aren't interested in luongo, or he would have been here at least till the trade was made.


Last edited by delirium trigger: 11-14-2012 at 09:03 PM.
delirium trigger is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 07:32 PM
  #29
beauchamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Laval, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,443
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
The $5.5 million is what Grabovski got, however he also got a 5 year extension. With Lupul I think it's ok to give him a 3 year deal and maybe have an option for a 4th year.
Hockey is not baseball, unless the new CBA...

beauchamp is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 07:37 PM
  #30
beauchamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Laval, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,443
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMLKesselftw View Post
I'm thinking he could considering he is doing very well in the WHL, but I believe half a year in the AHL followed by sheltered minutes with PP time in the NHL is a real possibility....

Also, I don't believe all players need to play in the AHL to succeed, an extra year in the WHL was certainly a good thing.... But another year in the AHL? If he is one of our top 6 dmen in camp I think he can play in the NHL without hurting his development.

(I'd of sent him down to the WHL this year regardless if he was one of the top 6 dmen at camp though)
NHL or WHL.

No AHL for Rielly next year due to his age, at least until his WHL team is eliminated.

beauchamp is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:24 PM
  #31
Ricky Bobby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,409
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
Bertuzzis play had very evidently dropped off , despite 71 points, which isn't very hard when over 45 of those were assists playing on the same line as the leagues leading scorer. Luongo has emphatically stated that a deal was all but signed, and his trade was a shock.
Even if I discount the injury talk (even though I very much believe I remember that in the discussion around the trade when it happened), we are still talking about a 30 year old player with the most baggage of any player in that era, questions of fan approval in an already struggling market, coming off a season where his play was panned as distracted and soft, despite inflated stats from playing with some of the best players and up and comers of that era. For a league wide touted young, rare franchise goalie who was responsible for all the panthers success, when they didn't even have a replacement for him in there system?!? They didn't even need allen, they already had a young tough group of workhorse Ds, had olesz and roberts on the wing and a crap load of centers to deal to improve the team instead of the only goalie they had. This trade filled no needs florida had and made them instantly worse and put being a playoff team in question. Some thing is wrong here, this deal would never had been done if was fluery,broduer or Roy in their early prime. Something stank about that deal the day it was made and it rotted and got even nastier very very fast. And luongo at this point is worth less now then he was 6 years ago.
Also you would have to think that the recent firing of allaire is a pretty good sign that the leafs aren't interested in luongo, or he would have been here at least till the trade was made.
Wrong! Naslund finished 29th in league scoring that year with 79 points. I'm through arguing with someone who can't look up stats on NHL.com

Ricky Bobby is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 09:00 PM
  #32
delirium trigger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Wrong! Naslund finished 29th in league scoring that year with 79 points. I'm through arguing with someone who can't look up stats on NHL.com
I edited that comment to reflect what I really meant more than an hour ago, how long ago did you quote me and Start working on that really short and completely deflectve comment?! Its also not hard to do some research and find bertuzzi was panned that year for mostly uninspired play, and was getting boo'd in every arena and was not a desired asset,That luongo and the panthers had a deal almost done long before the GM should have become nervous, and that that deal made Florida instantly worse and was completely useless. i don't know why you think I'm raging on big Burt, i always liked him, but he was a shadow of him self after the indecent, and for a few years a risky asset to aquire, that's also an easily googled fact. that trade was bad and history has proven that. even If you erase that injury season, he still only ever reverted to a 40 pointer on a better team one year later. and all that other stuff i said in my last comment that you ignored is all easily researchable fact. all ive ever heard you say is "71 points" like 4 times, i know, i was there, i saw it, it was unimpressive and inflated, and that trade was highly questioned.

delirium trigger is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 09:11 PM
  #33
charliolemieux
No Lu-wiki Zone
 
charliolemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,523
vCash: 500
If hockey is played this year:

To MIN:
Holzer
Franson(rights)

To TOR:
Backstrom

charliolemieux is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 09:23 PM
  #34
Brody
High.
 
Brody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,367
vCash: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
If hockey is played this year:

To MIN:
Holzer
Franson(rights)

To TOR:
Backstrom
He's a free agent at the end of the season, if there's a lockout he's a perfect fit to mentor Reimer.

One of Getzlaf/Perry + Backstrom would make us contenders imo.

Brody is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 09:32 PM
  #35
charliolemieux
No Lu-wiki Zone
 
charliolemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brody View Post
He's a free agent at the end of the season, if there's a lockout he's a perfect fit to mentor Reimer.

One of Getzlaf/Perry + Backstrom would make us contenders imo.
I've had Backstrom in a keeper league for a few years now and he puts up solid numbers when healthy.

If we can sign him for free if there is no hockey this year then all the better. I think he still has 2 more years as a grat goalie, but he can only play 50 or so games a year. If we do play this year it looks like MIN needs to fill out their bottom D, and Holzer and Franson would be fighting for the #6 spot in TOR, but might be the defacto 5-6 pairing in MIN.

The next thing would be the #1 C spot. Getz between Lupul and Kessel would be so sick. I'm a big Perry fan but if he can't play C then I think we should pass.

I'll find something.

charliolemieux is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 09:42 PM
  #36
delirium trigger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,686
vCash: 500
Rielly is looking slick and savvy tonight.
yakupov is playing crap. but makarov is a coooool cucumber.


Last edited by delirium trigger: 11-14-2012 at 11:19 PM.
delirium trigger is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 03:56 AM
  #37
Kingstonian84*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,411
vCash: 500
12/13 dream team:

Lupul-Getzlaf-Kessel
JVR-Grabo-Kadri
Kulemin-Zajac-Frattin
Brown-Steckel-Mcclement

Phaneuf-Gunnar
Gardiner-Franson
Rielly-Blacker

Realistic 12/13 lineup

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
JVR-Grabo-Mac
Kulemin-Mcclement-Frattin
Brown-Steckel-xxxx (doesnt matter)

Phaneuf-Gunnar
Gardiner-Holzer
Liles-Komi/Franson

Kingstonian84* is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 10:53 AM
  #38
TMLKesselftw
Registered User
 
TMLKesselftw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Guelph, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,510
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
12/13 dream team:

Lupul-Getzlaf-Kessel
JVR-Grabo-Kadri
Kulemin-Zajac-Frattin
Brown-Steckel-Mcclement

Phaneuf-Gunnar
Gardiner-Franson
Rielly-Blacker

Realistic 12/13 lineup

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
JVR-Grabo-Mac
Kulemin-Mcclement-Frattin
Brown-Steckel-xxxx (doesnt matter)

Phaneuf-Gunnar
Gardiner-Holzer
Liles-Komi/Franson
You mean 13/14? Unless you plan on trading for those players with picks...

I'm figuring Burke goes very hard for Getzlaf, and if that fails (probably will) then goes for one of Weiss or Zajac.

TMLKesselftw is online now  
Old
11-18-2012, 07:07 PM
  #39
BlueBaron
Registered User
 
BlueBaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,381
vCash: 500
Would you trade Grabovski and a 3rd for Luongo ?

After some haggling on the Luongo thread Canuck fans seem willing to do this. I like Grabo and he is our best Center but I also think he is a bit too expensive and the drop from him to Connolly would be more than made up for by the gain of Luongo.

BlueBaron is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 07:12 PM
  #40
BlueBaron
Registered User
 
BlueBaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
After some haggling on the Luongo thread Canuck fans seem willing to do this. I like Grabo and he is our best Center but I also think he is a bit too expensive and the drop from him to Connolly would be more than made up for by the gain of Luongo.
This was meant to be a poll but I guess I'm not allowed to see what our fans think.

BlueBaron is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 07:18 PM
  #41
charliolemieux
No Lu-wiki Zone
 
charliolemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
This was meant to be a poll but I guess I'm not allowed to see what our fans think.
Its a trade proposal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
After some haggling on the Luongo thread Canuck fans seem willing to do this. I like Grabo and he is our best Center but I also think he is a bit too expensive and the drop from him to Connolly would be more than made up for by the gain of Luongo.
No need for a poll.

HELL NO

If they want a 3rd line center, which is what Grabo would be on their team take Connolly and add Colborne for back-up.

charliolemieux is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 07:19 PM
  #42
AlmightyPO
Registered User
 
AlmightyPO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Kingston
Country: Canada
Posts: 789
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
After some haggling on the Luongo thread Canuck fans seem willing to do this. I like Grabo and he is our best Center but I also think he is a bit too expensive and the drop from him to Connolly would be more than made up for by the gain of Luongo.
Maybe if we had some form of centre depth this deal would be a maybe, but right now that price is too high. Luongo screams win now, and how exactly do people expect us to compete in the playoffs with only one top 6 centre, a debatable one at that too?

Grabovski is one of those guys who would thrive in playoff hockey, a type of player we almost have none of on this team. I'd rather stick it out with Reimer, especially with this shortened season. See what is available this offseason if that is the price.

AlmightyPO is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 07:20 PM
  #43
charliolemieux
No Lu-wiki Zone
 
charliolemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,523
vCash: 500


What am I saying? Connolly and Colborne is too much.

NO LUongo.

No no no.

Bad contract. NO!

No Luongo!

charliolemieux is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 07:20 PM
  #44
thewave
Registered User
 
thewave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,709
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
This was meant to be a poll but I guess I'm not allowed to see what our fans think.
Grabo for Lou makes us weaker at C and a little better between the pipes. I would not do this myself, becuase of his inconsistency, if it were say someone like Price but we had to add a pick I would do it. Lou is the kinda guy and contract you want to offer Bozak, Komi and a pick 2nd or 3rd.

thewave is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 07:24 PM
  #45
thewave
Registered User
 
thewave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,709
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post


What am I saying? Connolly and Colborne is too much.

NO LUongo.

No no no.

Bad contract. NO!

No Luongo!
Its a terrible contract, one of the worst although I suppose you can bury it, maybe I guesss..

thewave is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 07:27 PM
  #46
TmlHockeyFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,738
vCash: 500
This season is most likely shot. Why not sign a goalie in the offseason? It's better than losing prospects and picks for Luongo.


http://capgeek.com/free-agents/?year...G&fa_type_id=2

Tim Thomas
Jimmy Howard
Mike Smith
Backstrom

TmlHockeyFan is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 07:27 PM
  #47
Kingstonian84*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
Maybe if we had some form of centre depth this deal would be a maybe, but right now that price is too high. Luongo screams win now, and how exactly do people expect us to compete in the playoffs with only one top 6 centre, a debatable one at that too?

- So I guess by your logic then Cujo was "win now" as well, funny thing is he gave us some of the leafs best years since 92-95'. Luongo coming here would not be a bad thing IMO, the guy would easily give us the best goaltending we have seen in 10 years and your turning your nose down at it? This is the problem, a lot of leaf fans are spoiled crybabys, they want the best players but won't give up value in return.

Grabovski is one of those guys who would thrive in playoff hockey, a type of player we almost have none of on this team. I'd rather stick it out with Reimer, especially with this shortened season. See what is available this offseason if that is the price.
- Yes and No at the same time. Yes Grabo would bring is electric speed and work ethic but the playoffs are a lot more physical then regular season and we all know Grabo has a tendency to get rocked into next week 3-4x a year, he would get CRUNCHED night in and night out come playoff time, people say Grabo has heart well I beg to differ the guy foolishly puts himself in situations to get nailed.

Kingstonian84* is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 07:29 PM
  #48
Kingstonian84*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmlhockeyfan View Post
This season is most likely shot. Why not sign a goalie in the offseason? It's better than losing prospects and picks for Luongo.


http://capgeek.com/free-agents/?year...G&fa_type_id=2

Tim Thomas
Jimmy Howard
Mike Smith
Backstrom
No to Tim Thomas guy is pushing 40 that would be a very very bad signing. Jimmy Howard is worth a look though but he shouldn't be option #1 though either. Mike Smith giant pass, the guy is glorified for having a dream year but keep in mind this is the same guy less then two years ago that got waived 3x in a season, the main reason for his success was a strong defensive unit in front of him. Backstrom eh..... pass.

Kingstonian84* is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 07:31 PM
  #49
blasted_Sabre
Global Moderator
Warden of the North
 
blasted_Sabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Muskoka
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,560
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
After some haggling on the Luongo thread Canuck fans seem willing to do this. I like Grabo and he is our best Center but I also think he is a bit too expensive and the drop from him to Connolly would be more than made up for by the gain of Luongo.
No no no.

Grabo is a fairly paid 2nd line C.

And the drop from Grabo to Connolly is substantial. Not made up by Luongo.

blasted_Sabre is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 07:43 PM
  #50
TmlHockeyFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
No to Tim Thomas guy is pushing 40 that would be a very very bad signing. Jimmy Howard is worth a look though but he shouldn't be option #1 though either. Mike Smith giant pass, the guy is glorified for having a dream year but keep in mind this is the same guy less then two years ago that got waived 3x in a season, the main reason for his success was a strong defensive unit in front of him. Backstrom eh..... pass.
Signing Tim Thomas for 1 year wouldn't be bad. He could be a decent veteran goalie that could be a mentor until one of our prospect goalies can prove themselves.

TmlHockeyFan is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:59 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.