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More Impressive Rookie Season: Selanne vs Gretzky

View Poll Results: Who had the more impressive rookie season?
Teemu Selanne 89 66.42%
Wayne Gretzky 45 33.58%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-18-2012, 04:19 AM
  #26
TAnnala
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Better season would be Gretzky. More impressive would be Selanne. Considering the caliber of these two players.

For me to find Gretzky's performances "impressive" he would have to score 200 points etc. Selanne had arguably he's best year as a rookie. (I would rather take late 90's Selanne but that is up to debate)

Gretzky was nowhere near he's own best in his rookie season.

Gretzky as better Selanne as more impressive.

Not sure if i judge these word's in a right way. Also it is always nice to vote for Selanne.

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Old
11-18-2012, 04:22 AM
  #27
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Gretzky led the league in points, well ahead of everybody but all-time great Dionne, and won the Hart, carrying his team. Selanne didn't even outscore Pierre Turgeon. This is Gretzky, not close. Selanne shouldn't have a vote, and here is is doubling Gretzky. What. The. Hell.

Gretzky was also a teenager, which makes it even more impressive, what he did was unprecedented.


Last edited by revolverjgw: 11-18-2012 at 04:28 AM.
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Old
11-18-2012, 05:40 AM
  #28
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Selšnne, 76 goals as a rookie is something nobody will never ever come even close to

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Old
11-18-2012, 10:57 AM
  #29
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I think it's an interesting discussion, yes Selanne was a couple year's older, but he still led the league in goals scored, 25goals more than gretzky, and it was his 1st year playing in North America and North American hockey rinks. I think there is no clear cut winner here from a public pov, that's why I posted this to gauge reactions and discussions.

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Old
11-18-2012, 11:12 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyFan View Post
I think it's an interesting discussion, yes Selanne was a couple year's older, but he still led the league in goals scored, 25goals more than gretzky, and it was his 1st year playing in North America and North American hockey rinks. I think there is no clear cut winner here from a public pov, that's why I posted this to gauge reactions and discussions.
Gretzky is the clear cut winner as pointed out. And that's even discounting the massive amount of pressure a young Gretzky faced.

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Old
11-18-2012, 11:19 AM
  #31
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Selanne's season was better, but I think Gretzky's was more impressive given he was 4 years younger.

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Old
11-18-2012, 11:52 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Gotta go Selanne. 72 goals with no prior pro experience is something you rarely see in video games let alone real life.
SM-Liiga is a very respectable pro league. Even in the 90s it was probably better than the AHL (it definitely is now).

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Old
11-18-2012, 12:20 PM
  #33
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Gretzky lead the league in scoring. So him.
Funny he didn't win the Art Ross.

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Old
11-18-2012, 03:00 PM
  #34
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Gretzky was an Oiler, so obviously Selanne.

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Old
11-18-2012, 03:37 PM
  #35
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Even though Selanne scored 76 goals, Mogilny had the same amount in 7 less games. Not to mention that Selanne lost the Art Ross by 30 points while Gretzky was tied for the league lead.

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Old
11-18-2012, 11:54 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
Even though Selanne scored 76 goals, Mogilny had the same amount in 7 less games. Not to mention that Selanne lost the Art Ross by 30 points while Gretzky was tied for the league lead.
Almost everyone seems to be forgetting that Gretzky won this little trophy called the Hart in his NHL rookie season.... As another poster said, this was unprecedented. (Has anyone besides Gretzky won the Hart in their rookie year?)

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Old
11-19-2012, 12:33 AM
  #37
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by tazzy19 View Post
Almost everyone seems to be forgetting that Gretzky won this little trophy called the Hart in his NHL rookie season.... As another poster said, this was unprecedented. (Has anyone besides Gretzky won the Hart in their rookie year?)
No, i think Selanne and Ovechkin came the closest.

Thing is that Gretzky is on another level than Selanne as a player. In that mind Selanne was more impressive. Gretzky had a better season but Selanne was more impressive. Teemu delivered one of his top season's in his rookie year. Gretzky at his best was miles better than his rookie year.

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Old
11-19-2012, 02:08 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revolverjgw View Post
Gretzky led the league in points, well ahead of everybody but all-time great Dionne, and won the Hart, carrying his team. Selanne didn't even outscore Pierre Turgeon. This is Gretzky, not close. Selanne shouldn't have a vote, and here is is doubling Gretzky. What. The. Hell.

Gretzky was also a teenager, which makes it even more impressive, what he did was unprecedented.
Well here's another vote for Selanne and his 76 goals in his first NHL season.

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Old
11-19-2012, 04:55 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
No, i think Selanne and Ovechkin came the closest.

Thing is that Gretzky is on another level than Selanne as a player. In that mind Selanne was more impressive. Gretzky had a better season but Selanne was more impressive. Teemu delivered one of his top season's in his rookie year. Gretzky at his best was miles better than his rookie year.
Just so I'm clear if Player A scores 40-60-100 in his first season but turns into a 50-100-150 player his season is less impressive than player B that scores 51-40-91 and becomes a 30-40-70 player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Well here's another vote for Selanne and his 76 goals in his first NHL season.
Hart Trophy > any amount of goals

Cheechoo won the Rocket Richard, Thornton won the Hart, who was better?

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Old
11-19-2012, 05:16 AM
  #40
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
Just so I'm clear if Player A scores 40-60-100 in his first season but turns into a 50-100-150 player his season is less impressive than player B that scores 51-40-91 and becomes a 30-40-70 player?


Hart Trophy > any amount of goals

Cheechoo won the Rocket Richard, Thornton won the Hart, who was better?
I guess my reasoning is a bit strange. That is why i questioned it myself too.

I was going for the fact that Gretzky, for me, to be impressive needs to be something more than tying the scoring lead. I said hes season was better but not more impressive. I am very biased Selanne fan so even I take my post with grain of salt in threads like these.

I will try to make you another example. Selanne scored 80 points in 73 games as a +40 year old. For me that season was more impressive than Ovechkin's 85 point season at same year. Even if Ovechkin was the better player/season.
Not sure if i make any sense, but trying very hard.

Although i have been thinking about this question even more and am now starting to lean towards Gretzky.

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Old
11-19-2012, 06:57 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
I guess my reasoning is a bit strange. That is why i questioned it myself too.

I was going for the fact that Gretzky, for me, to be impressive needs to be something more than tying the scoring lead. I said hes season was better but not more impressive. I am very biased Selanne fan so even I take my post with grain of salt in threads like these.

I will try to make you another example. Selanne scored 80 points in 73 games as a +40 year old. For me that season was more impressive than Ovechkin's 85 point season at same year. Even if Ovechkin was the better player/season.
Not sure if i make any sense, but trying very hard.

Although i have been thinking about this question even more and am now starting to lean towards Gretzky.
That example is very logical. To be productive that late into your life is a great accomplishment, even if it doesn't surpass the players in their prime and is one of the reasons Selanne should be a first ballot HOFer. However, as you acknowledge, it hurts your argument for Selanne vs. Gretzky, since being league MVP and tying for the league lead in points at 18 is almost unthinkable. If MacKinnon won the Hart next year imagine the wasteland the mods would be left with.

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Old
11-19-2012, 07:28 AM
  #42
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Thisclose but I went with Gretzky's. A Hart Trophy win in your rookie year seals the deal for me.

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Old
11-19-2012, 07:49 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
When did I say that didn't happen?

Calder Trophy:



Now thinking about it, how did Selanne win the Calder under those rules? Did they not consider SM-liiga a major professional league?
Only North American leagues (NHL and WHA when it existed) count as "major professional leagues" - that's just how the NHL defines it, their definition, not mine. Even the Soviet league, 2nd-best league in the world though it was, didn't count - Makarov won the Calder in 1990 after leading the Soviet league in scoring six times in a row.

Answer to question: Gretzky. Did it at a younger age and won the Hart for his efforts.

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Old
11-19-2012, 07:52 AM
  #44
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
That example is very logical. To be productive that late into your life is a great accomplishment, even if it doesn't surpass the players in their prime and is one of the reasons Selanne should be a first ballot HOFer. However, as you acknowledge, it hurts your argument for Selanne vs. Gretzky, since being league MVP and tying for the league lead in points at 18 is almost unthinkable. If MacKinnon won the Hart next year imagine the wasteland the mods would be left with.
True. More and more i think about it i seem to tip the scale to favor Gretzky.

The Great One's dominance was so utterly amazing that i seem to lost some of perspective when valuing hes performances. If Gretzky does something that does NOT brake records i often think that it was "meh" accomplishment from him. Even if he would still have a great/career year by almost anyone else's standards.

If someone would tell me these two seasons like this.

18 yr old rookie player from WHL:

79 games
51 goals
86 assista
137 points

Tied for Art Ross
Hart Trophy

22 yr old rookie player from FEL

84 games
76 goals
56 assists
132 points

Tied for 1st in goal scoring
5th in points
6th in Hart Trophy voting

Both would seem awesome but other one clearly stand out. But the second you put name Gretzky in front of the 18 year old rookie thing gets skewed up for me. It just seems something Gretzky does win the scoring race and Hart. No biggie.


Edit:

For what it is worth.

Adjusted stats: Gretzky 43 goals and 117 points.
Selanne 62 goals and 107 points.

So offensively the difference is pretty slim. I would give the edge to Gretzky since 10 more points is better than 19 more goals. But that is something i can find debatable.

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Old
11-19-2012, 08:03 AM
  #45
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Teemu Selanne

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Old
11-19-2012, 12:15 PM
  #46
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Selanne scored 20 goals in one month. He's the only player to ever do that. And he did it in March when his team had a losing record and needed a boost into the playoffs. And he's pretty much my favorite player. And Gretzky wasn't even a rookie.


It's probably still Gretzky.

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Old
11-19-2012, 05:13 PM
  #47
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Gretzky probably had the better overall season, but I think Selanne had the more impressive season, if that makes sense.

Nobody has come within 20 goals of Selanne's goal total in their rookie season. That's a ridiculous margin. Nobody has had 70% of the goals Selanne had in his rookie season (Mike Bossy's 53 vs Selanne's 76), whereas someone has scored 81% of Gretzky's assists (Peter Stastny's 70 vs Gretzky's 86). Selanne's rookie goal scoring total is just so absurdly high compared to every other rookie season ever, it has to be the most impressive. Of course, goals aren't everything, which is why Gretzky's season was probably the better one overall, but I can't say that his season was more impressive than Selanne's ridiculous goal scoring. Selanne had 52 even strength goals that year, that's one less than Bossy's overall goal total, and it's the 6th highest mark in that statistic of all time (with 3 of the 5 ahead of him being Gretzky, and then Kurri and Brett Hull).

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Old
11-19-2012, 05:26 PM
  #48
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Gretzky wins this. Wasn't Selanne 22 or 23 years old in his rookie year? Gretzky was a teenager and won the Hart.

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Old
11-19-2012, 05:40 PM
  #49
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Selanne @ 22yrs being 5th in points, scoring 76 goals.

Gretzky @ 19yrs being 1st in points, winning the Hart Trophy.

The Hart sways my opinion

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