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Old
11-17-2012, 10:47 PM
  #626
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Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
Is Prust calling Jeremy Jacobs an idiot? If so, lol.
Seems that he is calling Jacobs an idiot. Which is fine with me. I also loved Prust's next tweet, on playing in the Bell with 21,000 fans going nuts. I really looked forward to seeing this kid in a Habs sweater this year, piss me off.

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11-17-2012, 10:53 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post
Prust is just another player too scared to put his money where his mouth is and call out his team's owner.

Funny how it's never their owners responsible for this mess... It's always the designated boogeymen.
What an ass post. Like Prust is gonna call out Geoff on tweet. His employer, who gave him a superb contract the next 4 years. The players know who the ass owners are, and i doubt Molson is one of them.

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11-18-2012, 12:08 AM
  #628
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Everybody know Jacobs has just more influence on this than Bettman does, hence the reasons why players would target him. Has nothing to do with players that should call their own owners out....

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11-18-2012, 06:09 AM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post


You must fall down a lot.
You might want to read what you highlighted. There is no reason for Prust to call out Molson as Molson is not one of the owners pushing this lockout. At worst Molson is considered a moderate who wants to play hockey. It has also been stated that Molson is even more annoyed by this whole lockout because he not only loses money with the Habs franchise, but beer sales are also down by a significant margin.

Prust called out one of the worst morons in the owners' group, no need for him to attack a man who wants hockey AND gave Prust a terrific contract.

I disagree with bsl quite often, but at least try and recognize what he is posting before trying to dismiss it. On this one he is actually not the one in need of "help"...

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Old
11-18-2012, 06:15 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Incorrect, they are part of the CBA.

NHL has highest minimum salary of any mAJOR league.
That is not "revenue sharing". No player gives any of his money to a large pie that then gets divided by players with less of a salary. Pensions, health insurance, a minimum wage fall under the category called "working conditions", not "revenue sharing".

Please keep in mind that the NHL does have the best minimum wage in the major professional sports when next we argue about how the poor players are mistreated...

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11-18-2012, 06:45 AM
  #631
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
That is not "revenue sharing". No player gives any of his money to a large pie that then gets divided by players with less of a salary. Pensions, health insurance, a minimum wage fall under the category called "working conditions", not "revenue sharing".

Please keep in mind that the NHL does have the best minimum wage in the major professional sports when next we argue about how the poor players are mistreated...
It is effectively revenue sharing, money that would otherwise go to elite players goes to scrubs, etc, alternatively, the performance of the best players guarantees a fair living for the rest.

A good analogy is how national TV contracts are split 30 ways. I.e. revenue comes in and is split in a Mon free market manner.

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Old
11-18-2012, 01:45 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It is effectively revenue sharing, money that would otherwise go to elite players goes to scrubs, etc, alternatively, the performance of the best players guarantees a fair living for the rest.

A good analogy is how national TV contracts are split 30 ways. I.e. revenue comes in and is split in a Mon free market manner.
Correct, that is the point of a union. Everyone works together for the betterment of the whole.

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Old
11-19-2012, 07:28 AM
  #633
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If you removed Roger Federer, Raphael Nadal, Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray and the top 150 players from tennis, would you go cheer for the new dynasty of player #151 who would become #1, on the basis that the margin between him and Djokovic was narrow anyway, and that the entertainment product is just as good?
I don't think that analogy works well for me... I recognize Federer's name, but none of the others, and have never watched more than 5 minutes of tennis in my life, sooooo... But if I had to guess, then I'm thinking it would be along the very same lines as hockey... as in yes, I love tennis that much, and the margin between #150 and #1 is probably very narrow, and if you took out the top 150, I'd still watch it and love it just as much, and #151 becoming the new legendary #1 would provide just as much entertainment. That's what I would expect for most any sports, hockey included. The world is just a big big place.
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Don't kid yourself, talent level is very noticeable in games. It's easy to see the difference between the Canada-USA gold medal game in Vancouver, or the LA-NJ Stanley Cup Final series, versus that of the Habs in late 2011-2012.
I don't think I'm "kidding myself". Why would I? I'm pro-player, so it's not like I have some self-manufactured bias to promote a replacement player scenario as part of my internet secret agent efforts to solve the NHL lockout. You're describing games where there is a lot on the line, where the stakes and atmosphere conspire to make the games so much more entertaining as much as anything. You can find that at all kinds of levels. And you'd find it with a replacement player Stanley Cup final too. Well, you would if it ever happened and if you ever gave it a chance. Neither of which will happen, soooo...

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Old
11-19-2012, 08:30 AM
  #634
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Can we get an update? Do we know if their pina coladas come with little umbrellas? Seriously as a unionized worker I support unions but when you already make millions doing what you love, it's hard to fathom that you can't live comfortably on that. That's also not including endorsements and investments. This isn't about improving working conditions, it's about greed...pure and simple. I guess no matter how much you make it's never enough. As a matter of fact the number of athletes that go broke after they retire is surprisingly high!

Having 2 major lockouts in such a short time span proves that this league is a mess. Whatever comes out of this I hope that they settle things in such a way that they never have to go through this again but I highly doubt it. Somewhere, the spirits of the hockey legends are turning in their grave.


Last edited by Bryson: 11-19-2012 at 08:42 AM.
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Old
11-19-2012, 09:46 AM
  #635
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Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
Can we get an update? Do we know if their pina coladas come with little umbrellas? Seriously as a unionized worker I support unions but when you already make millions doing what you love, it's hard to fathom that you can't live comfortably on that. That's also not including endorsements and investments. This isn't about improving working conditions, it's about greed...pure and simple. I guess no matter how much you make it's never enough. As a matter of fact the number of athletes that go broke after they retire is surprisingly high!

Having 2 major lockouts in such a short time span proves that this league is a mess. Whatever comes out of this I hope that they settle things in such a way that they never have to go through this again but I highly doubt it. Somewhere, the spirits of the hockey legends are turning in their grave.
I suspect that's more the lack of education making them big targets for frauds and doubtful investments than actually running out of money. You can always say that it isn't the case with players that only do a few seasons in the league, but this lockout isn't about them. They would have problems regardless of whether the players concede revenue or not.

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Old
11-19-2012, 10:15 AM
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
Can we get an update? Do we know if their pina coladas come with little umbrellas? Seriously as a unionized worker I support unions but when you already make millions doing what you love, it's hard to fathom that you can't live comfortably on that. That's also not including endorsements and investments. This isn't about improving working conditions, it's about greed...pure and simple. I guess no matter how much you make it's never enough. As a matter of fact the number of athletes that go broke after they retire is surprisingly high!
if your employer asks you for a 10% salary rollback , reduce your benefits and lock you out as soon as your collective agreement is expired (which doesn't happen very often in unionised entities, since negotiations can go on 1 year+ after expiration of agreement), would you accept? because you have more then a minimum wage worker with no benefits, and comparably to him, you live "well"?

NHLPA is already conceding comparatively to their last CBA, calling them greedy is very moot point, because the same can be said about the NHL and the owners. I mean, if they don't like the risk of their business, or don't think that their investment into a ice hockey team without a fanbase in place where snow don't fall is not very good, well then they should go get a job with fixed annual income like everyone else?
Point being, it's a negotiation, that has dragged on more then it should of. At the end, revenue sharing will be split (gradually or make some exceptions concerning prior contracts), prior contracts will have to be honoured and RFA/UFA and level entry clauses will tilt in favor of the owners.
The only way i see the NHL getting more then the above, is if they stand pat and cancel the whole season or NHLPA caves in. which i highly doubt. Calculating the cost/benifit for that, would be disastrous though for the players and the owners.


Last edited by uiCk: 11-19-2012 at 10:45 AM.
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Old
11-19-2012, 10:18 AM
  #637
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It is effectively revenue sharing, money that would otherwise go to elite players goes to scrubs, etc, alternatively, the performance of the best players guarantees a fair living for the rest.
Really? Elite players alone do not make a team. I would say the presence of the so-called "scrubs" creates the ability to form a team and a league, thus giving the "elite" players a forum in which todisplay their skills.

Interestingly enough, this "union" does more to help the elite than it does to hlep the scrubs who don't see the same benefits in terms of free agency, long term contracts and big salaries. It kind of goes against the grain of a true union. It is a bunch of elitists who are advancing their cause on the back of the average player.

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Old
11-19-2012, 10:40 AM
  #638
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Minimum wage being revenue sharing is quite absurde. If that's the case then please take the 200 million sharing pool off the table on the owners side and just say that the CAP itself is revenue sharing.

I suggest you take sometime to do some reading on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_Wage. The goal is to provide income equity between industrial sectors not flatten the wages between workers, as the PA would want NHL teams to do between them.


Last edited by vokiel: 11-19-2012 at 10:50 AM.
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Old
11-19-2012, 10:44 AM
  #639
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I have a very strong feeling that we're going to get good news today and major advancements

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Old
11-19-2012, 10:50 AM
  #640
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Minimum wage being revenue sharing is quite the dumbest argument I've ever read. If that's the case then please take the 200 million sharing pool off the table on the owners side and just say that the CAP itself is revenue sharing.
i was trying to find comparatives, but i edited now. Never said minimum wage = revenue share btw, that's your comprehension.

Only thing i was trying to say is that if your ok with the logic of "well they already make x amount, and if they make y, it's still 100 times better then the average worker, so they should take amount y, if not they are greedy" then poster should be ok to reduce his salary, because he's already living better then worker who makes minimum wage. (assuming his pay is greater then minimum salary, which you can usually assume with unionised workers)


Last edited by uiCk: 11-19-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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Old
11-19-2012, 10:51 AM
  #641
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imo either it gets settled by friday this week or they will cancel more games.

this is based on the fact that they need 7-10 days to regroup players and goto camp. The schedule is already canceled till nov 30, so that is where is should stand.

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Old
11-19-2012, 10:55 AM
  #642
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i was trying to find comparatives, but i edited now. Never said minimum wage = revenue share btw, that's your comprehension.
I was commenting on the hole spiel about players already sharing revenue because of income equity, not a specific post. One of the big reasons why there's a minimum wage in the NHL is also because of the league trying to make itself as competitive as possible compared to other sports leagues. Which is what supply & demand dictates specially when a potential worker is choosing a career.

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11-19-2012, 10:58 AM
  #643
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He was, but never took back what he said. Just pointing out Dreger's hypocrisy.
Dreger is a clown, he is as much an insider as I am. He defends the league and their decisions with every ounce of his feeble intellect because he'd be out of a job otherwise. Him and Bobby Mac (who does know his hockey very much, I'll admit) suck on the league's teat with far too much gusto to be taken seriously.

To be fair, Dregs and I got into it on twitter once, he blocked me after I called him a boob for reporting that Doug Riseborough and John Ferguson Jr were the two leading contenders for the Habs GM spot. What a moron.

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11-19-2012, 11:00 AM
  #644
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How can you say that MacKenzie sucks on the league's teet with a serious face when he has criticized the NHL at various moments throughout this lockout? Bobby Mac as been probably the most neutral reporter criticizing both the NHL and The PA.

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Old
11-19-2012, 11:01 AM
  #645
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
I was commenting on the hole spiel about players already sharing revenue because of income equity, not a specific post. One of the big reasons why there's a minimum wage in the NHL is also because of the league trying to make itself as competitive as possible compared to other sports leagues. Which is what supply & demand dictates specially when a potential worker is choosing a career.
sorry, assumed you were responding to my post.

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11-19-2012, 11:05 AM
  #646
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
i was trying to find comparatives, but i edited now. Never said minimum wage = revenue share btw, that's your comprehension.

Only thing i was trying to say is that if your ok with the logic of "well they already make x amount, and if they make y, it's still 100 times better then the average worker, so they should take amount y, if not they are greedy" then poster should be ok to reduce his salary, because he's already living better then worker who makes minimum wage. (assuming his pay is greater then minimum salary, which you can usually assume with unionised workers)

Also, i don't need your wiki's on minimum wage, im majoring in economics, and very well familiar with these terms. not so much with the details of the CBA though, thus i try and stay away from the specifics of the CBA and such.
Yes well, some less informed posters might find it interesting. And you are correct the argument you are referring to is a generalization.

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Old
11-19-2012, 11:05 AM
  #647
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Erik Cole was the one who strongly alluded to Molson being anti-lockout, IIRC.

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11-19-2012, 11:09 AM
  #648
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How can you say that MacKenzie sucks on the league's teet with a serious face when he has criticized the NHL at various moments throughout this lockout? Bobby Mac as been probably the most neutral reporter criticizing both the NHL and The PA.
Because he does? He's a great hockey analyst and his observations are pragmatic and spot-on but when it comes to this current lockout, with his position and prominence he hasn't said much of anything. The league is in the wrong, and have been in the wrong since July 2. The league's rich owners are some slimy, creepy creatures - Leopold, Jacobs and so on. Mac could, and should have, brought to light how it's not Owners v. Players as much as it is Rich Owners v. Poor Owners vis-a-vis Revenue Sharing and salary limits.

This is only compounded by the tons of evidence of him taking the league's side no matter what on disciplinary matters, suspensions and fines.

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11-19-2012, 11:13 AM
  #649
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Erik Cole was the one who strongly alluded to Molson being anti-lockout, IIRC.
That much is clear. Molson just bought this team with a ton of leverage, he needs to make some money first to clear off the interest payments and all that jazz. I think they bought the Bell Centre too but they're definitely losing a ton of cash on the whole project.

I really, really want Bettman to leave. What can we do to make him leave?

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11-19-2012, 11:16 AM
  #650
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Because he does? He's a great hockey analyst and his observations are pragmatic and spot-on but when it comes to this current lockout, with his position and prominence he hasn't said much of anything. The league is in the wrong, and have been in the wrong since July 2. The league's rich owners are some slimy, creepy creatures - Leopold, Jacobs and so on. Mac could, and should have, brought to light how it's not Owners v. Players as much as it is Rich Owners v. Poor Owners vis-a-vis Revenue Sharing and salary limits.

This is only compounded by the tons of evidence of him taking the league's side no matter what on disciplinary matters, suspensions and fines.
Doesn't matter who you think started it. Both sides are wrong now, and neither comes out on top if a full season is lost. Nobody can say ''we won''. Both are freaking dumb losers.

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