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Old
11-18-2012, 12:31 AM
  #1001
Ho Borvat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Nucks by trading Luongo can attempt to address 3 major depth areas:

1. 3rd line center: Bozak

2. Depth defender with a manageable contract: Gunnarson

3. Depth winger or prospect: CMac, 2nd round pick or a B forward prospect like Colborne
I dont really see depth defender a pressing issue either.

The top-4 is set, and I think most people are fine with Ballard/Tanev seeing top-4 minutes (in the event of injuries). You then have Alberts, Joslin, Connauton, Sauve who fill your 7-10 spot.
If it is a depth defender, its probably an "Aaron Rome" type.

Our winger depth is fine (as far as full timers go) but NHL ready prospects on ELC's would be of value.

So a guy like Ashton could be a target, Biggs (I know hes OHL, but for the future).

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11-18-2012, 12:38 AM
  #1002
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Either way RareJewel I definitely can't see a situation where Burke holds the upper hand in dealing with Luongo.

The only way Burke gets Luongo is if he outbids the other teams.
Assuming other teams bid.

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Old
11-18-2012, 12:41 AM
  #1003
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Assuming other teams bid.
When the lock out ends, you know there will be a huge amount of teams who want to make a splash to get the fans in the city's excited again.

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Old
11-18-2012, 12:45 AM
  #1004
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Assuming other teams bid.
If your (lets say) Steve Tambellini and Luongo gets traded for nothing (lets say Colborne + 2nd) do you not think your going to get in trouble for not beating that offer?

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11-18-2012, 12:48 AM
  #1005
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Tanev started with Hamhuis last playoffs. The Canucks believe he is capable of playing 20 minutes a night. Just not on the PP, but we could shelter Connauton at 5-on-5 and let him try his hand at the PP. I think Tanev has proved he can handle the minutes. AV seems to think so... even the stats suggest he is a defensive stud, or at least defensively sound.

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11-18-2012, 12:51 AM
  #1006
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Weather true or not I hate this logic. The Value of bert during the trade was still there. Can't help what happens after that.
Bert was a shell with a .44 Magnum cloud hanging over his depressed head.

Nonis did well, and was aided by the presence of Keenan on the other side of the deal.

Weather had nothing to do with it then, although it may have something to do with it going forward...

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11-18-2012, 12:58 AM
  #1007
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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Bert was a shell with a .44 Magnum cloud hanging over his depressed head.

Nonis did well, and was aided by the presence of Keenan on the other side of the deal.

Weather had nothing to do with it then, although it may have something to do with it going forward...
He was a 30 year old PF coming off of a 70 point season.

Yes he only played the 7 games for FLA, but really his injury troubles hampered him more than his legal troubles did.

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11-18-2012, 12:58 AM
  #1008
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So according to you guys Bertuzzi coming off a 71 point season was a former shell of himself?

What's Kulemin worth coming off a 7 goal season?

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Old
11-18-2012, 01:00 AM
  #1009
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
If your (lets say) Steve Tambellini and Luongo gets traded for nothing (lets say Colborne + 2nd) do you not think your going to get in trouble for not beating that offer?
Maybe, maybe not. There are so many variables. Perhaps Gillis values Colborne too highly and the Oil would actually have needed to give up something much more valuable in their opinion. Perhaps Oil management simply doesn't want to tie up that kind of money for that long of term on an aging goalie (not old, but his prime is limited now). Perhaps Katz actually has no issue with his GM doing his job as GM and trusts that if Tambo doesn't make that deal, there's good reason for it. Or maybe (and this one is hard to believe according to most HF'rs), the Oilers are actually happy with Dubnyk. We are not talking about Crosby or Malkin here, its Luongo.

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Old
11-18-2012, 01:01 AM
  #1010
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
So according to you guys Bertuzzi coming off a 71 point season was a former shell of himself?

What's Kulemin worth coming off a 7 goal season?
If you don't realize that there was much, much more to it than his point totals, well...then you really shouldn't be acknowledged in this conversation at all. It was well known that Bert needed a move out of Vancouver for the sake of his mental well being.

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11-18-2012, 01:04 AM
  #1011
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
If you don't realize that there was much, much more to it than his point totals, well...then you really shouldn't be acknowledged in this conversation at all. It was well known that Bert needed a move out of Vancouver for the sake of his mental well being.
well Toronto fans were saying the reason Kulemin did soo poor had more to do than with his point totals as well

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Old
11-18-2012, 01:04 AM
  #1012
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
If you don't realize that there was much, much more to it than his point totals, well...then you really shouldn't be acknowledged in this conversation at all. It was well known that Bert needed a move out of Vancouver for the sake of his mental well being.
Do you not think 28 other teams would have been willing to take a gamble on him?

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11-18-2012, 01:05 AM
  #1013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
If you don't realize that there was much, much more to it than his point totals, well...then you really shouldn't be acknowledged in this conversation at all. It was well known that Bert needed a move out of Vancouver for the sake of his mental well being.
Kulemin's mental being isn't in great shape either.

Bertuzzi's regression was based on injuries, the whole Moore incident/depression is overblown.

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Old
11-18-2012, 01:08 AM
  #1014
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Question: We saw that Gillis isn't afraid of drafting older players (Mallet), or players who he believes are closer to NHL ready.

Do you think he would be more interested in more developed prospects than picks?

Aka would he rather take a player like Biggs/Ashton/Kadri/Colborne than a 2014 1st or a conditional 1st?

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Old
11-18-2012, 01:11 AM
  #1015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Question: We saw that Gillis isn't afraid of drafting older players (Mallet), or players who he believes are closer to NHL ready.

Do you think he would be more interested in more developed prospects than picks?

Aka would he rather take a player like Biggs/Ashton/Kadri/Colborne than a 2014 1st or a conditional 1st?
He's drafted older players in the later rounds. First round talent would presumably hold more value to him than NHL-ready grinders.

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Old
11-18-2012, 01:14 AM
  #1016
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
He's drafted older players in the later rounds. First round talent would presumably hold more value to him than NHL-ready grinders.
But would he value a guy like Biggs, who was 22nd in 2011, more than lets say a pick probably between 15-20 overall in 2013/2014

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Old
11-18-2012, 01:15 AM
  #1017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Question: We saw that Gillis isn't afraid of drafting older players (Mallet), or players who he believes are closer to NHL ready.

Do you think he would be more interested in more developed prospects than picks?

Aka would he rather take a player like Biggs/Ashton/Kadri/Colborne than a 2014 1st or a conditional 1st?
that was one draft. Each draft he has done something completely different.

Not to mention last years draft was pretty weak after the 1st 40-50 picks.

This years draft is supposed to be very very deep, guys who have the talent to be top 10 picks available in the 15-20 range


Last edited by Ched Brosky: 11-18-2012 at 01:27 AM.
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Old
11-18-2012, 01:17 AM
  #1018
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
But would he value a guy like Biggs, who was 22nd in 2011, more than lets say a pick probably between 15-20 overall in 2013/2014
I'd hope not, there's far too much talent in this year's draft.

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Old
11-18-2012, 01:35 AM
  #1019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
If you don't realize that there was much, much more to it than his point totals, well...then you really shouldn't be acknowledged in this conversation at all. It was well known that Bert needed a move out of Vancouver for the sake of his mental well being.
This just proves the Value more than ever, Bert fetched Lui who at the time many believed was the best young goalie in the NHL. and he "needed to be traded". So whats the difference in Lui now? Just the contract. Even the age isn't much difference as he should still have at least 4 years of high caliber play, most likely more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
But would he value a guy like Biggs, who was 22nd in 2011, more than lets say a pick probably between 15-20 overall in 2013/2014
I think it always depends on upside/talent. If one projects to be a higher end player you go with them.

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Old
11-18-2012, 01:56 AM
  #1020
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
I was jut thinking about Luongo to Florida and thinking that Matthias must be involved.

If the deal you posted goes through...

VAN/FLA 2nd+3rd=Auld

VAN/FLA Bertuzzi+Allen+Auld=Luongo+Krajicek+6th

FLA/CAR Allen=Samsonov

VAN/TB Krajicek=O'Brien+Ouellet

VAN/NSH O'Brien+Gendur=Parent+Andersson

FLA/DET Bertuzzi=Matthias+2nd

VAN/FLA Luongo=Petrovic+Matthias+prospect+1st

Overall:
VAN Bertuzzi+Allen+Gendur+2nd+3rd=Petrovic+Matthias+Pa rent+Ouellet+Andersson+prospect+1st+6th

FLA
Petrovic+Krajicek+prospect+1st+6th=Samsonov+2nd+2n d+3rd

Of note: Ryan Parent was traded from Philly to Nashville for Dan Hamhuis before both came to Vancouver. Two careers on significantly different paths through those three cities.
Heck you should throw the rest of the deals between Floida and Vancouver in there as well....and most importantly the production that was realized by the players and any asset they were eventually traded for....
  • David Booth, Steve Reinprecht and a third-round draft-pick in 2013 to the Vancouver Canucks for Mikael Samuelsson and Marco Sturm.
  • Chris Higgins for Evan Oberg + 2012 3rd Round Pick
  • Keith Ballard and Vic Oreskovich for Michael Grabner, 2010 1st round pick (Howden), and Steve Bernier

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Old
11-18-2012, 02:16 AM
  #1021
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
So according to you guys Bertuzzi coming off a 71 point season was a former shell of himself?

What's Kulemin worth coming off a 7 goal season?
From a neutral perspective I don't think Kulemin will be moved in a Luongo deal. He has size, pretty good skating and is above average defensively on a very poor defensive team. Even with the season he had last year, he would still be an excellent third line player. I think Toronto would try to move other pieces rather than Kulemin. Players like that are too rare and should not moved in a deal imo.

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Old
11-18-2012, 02:22 AM
  #1022
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
From a neutral perspective I don't think Kulemin will be moved in a Luongo deal. He has size, pretty good skating and is above average defensively on a very poor defensive team. Even with the season he had last year, he would still be an excellent third line player. I think Toronto would try to move other pieces rather than Kulemin. Players like that are too rare and should not moved in a deal imo.
And elite goaltenders are easier to find than great third liners?

I'd prefer Lupul to Kulrmin anyways, as we need some pure offense added in our top-6, as our bottom-6 is fairly set, with the exception of a 3C.

Although I wouldn't mind starting the season with Malhotra there to see if he's able to handle it; if not try Schroeder out, otherwise aquire one at the deadline.

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11-18-2012, 08:20 AM
  #1023
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Ya I did suggest that a couple pages back, calling it a live and die situation. Scrivens this year can barely hold his job in AHL, even if you stick with Reimer not sure who is going to back him up. It's fair enough that you believe in Reimer it's your opinion. I don't think he will be a long term starter in this league, and that is my opinion. Agree to disagree.
A backup goalie is easy enough to find.

If Burke didn't believe in his ability to be a long term starter in this league, he wouldn't have gone into last year with a tandem of Reimer/Gustavsson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Nucks by trading Luongo can attempt to address 3 major depth areas:

1. 3rd line center: Lombardi

2. Depth defender with a manageable contract: Franson

3. Depth winger or prospect: CMac, 2nd round pick or a forward prospect like Kadri
Fixed. In fact, I wouldn't be completely surprised if Gillis were able to get all 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
And elite goaltenders are easier to find than great third liners?

I'd prefer Lupul to Kulrmin anyways, as we need some pure offense added in our top-6, as our bottom-6 is fairly set, with the exception of a 3C.

Although I wouldn't mind starting the season with Malhotra there to see if he's able to handle it; if not try Schroeder out, otherwise aquire one at the deadline.
The thing is... you just can't get Lupul. He's not in a position to be traded at the present time, and the season is going to be too short in terms of time before deadline for him to fall out of favour.

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Old
11-18-2012, 08:39 AM
  #1024
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A backup goalie is easy enough to find.

If Burke didn't believe in his ability to be a long term starter in this league, he wouldn't have gone into last year with a tandem of Reimer/Gustavsson.


Fixed. In fact, I wouldn't be completely surprised if Gillis were able to get all 3.



The thing is... you just can't get Lupul. He's not in a position to be traded at the present time, and the season is going to be too short in terms of time before deadline for him to fall out of favour.
Here seems to lie the difference of opinions. He went one year with them and it failed. Burke himself even said goaltending was a place they needed to upgrade. So is he still satisfied and thinking Reimer is capable of being the number 1?

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Old
11-18-2012, 09:01 AM
  #1025
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We are not talking about Crosby or Malkin here, its Luongo.
I know Luongo isn't Crosby or Malkin but you shouldn't undervalue him either.

In a GM pole the year after Luongo got here, he was voted behind Crosby and Ovechkin and ahead of Malkin as the player GMs would want as a building block for a new franchise. Since then Luongo has won a Gold Medal and two Presidents trophies as a stater.

Do not undervalue Luongo, he's a big reason this team is a contender team instead of a middle of the pack team. Trading him without knowing that Schneider can maintain that same level is dangerous. Taking that risk without getting great value back is foolish.

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