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International teams that had the highest % of their best players

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11-15-2012, 05:32 PM
  #1
Big Phil
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International teams that had the highest % of their best players

Keep it to top level tournaments 1972 Summit Series and onwards, and focus more on the teams who did well rather than the Germany and Slovakias of the hockey world.

The team that got the highest percentage of their best players:

1976 Canada Cup (Canada) - Probably the best team ever iced. Only Brad Park (injured) on defense was left off. Rene Robert got cut from this team if that tells you anything and while Parent and Dryden were injured Vachon didn't take a backwards step

2002 Canadian Olympic team - I guess Joe Thornton being left off is somewhat noticeable but it isn't a big deal. Roy chose not to play but the other three goalies were right in the mix with him anyway.

2010 Canadian Olympic team - Took a page from 2002. Stamkos not on the team was a little questionable although he wasn't even 20 yet. Mike Green being left off raised a few eyebrows but I can see why now. You had Pronger, Niedermayer, Boyle, Weber, Keith, Doughty and Seabrook. Obviously they want a stay at home guy in Seabrook so I can understand leaving the accident prone Green at home.

1996 World Cup (USA) - Had all their best players on their greatest team ever iced. Roenick and Beezer weren't there because I believe neither had a contract at the time. Or maybe Beezer was injured. I don't think he makes a step up from Richter though. Roenick would make the team a bit better I think, but not much.

1987 Russian Canada Cup team - The KLM line at their prime. Fetisov (who missed the 1984 Canada Cup), Kasatonov and a young Kamensky. Also, Bykov, Lomakin, etc.Too bad Tretiak was retired, but other than that this was all the Russian stars.


The team with the worst percentage of their players:

1976 Russian Canada Cup team - They left a bunch off the team either for a built in excuse or to punish them. Either way, they purposely left off Yakushev, Mikhailov, Petrov and then they also had Kharlamov get into a car accident and couldn't play.

1996 World Cup (Canada) - They didn't even invite Roy. Which left them with an old Ranford, a young Brodeur and a shaky Joseph as their starter. To this day I've never made any sense of that Roy decision. Bourque also chose not to play. Lemieux, Kariya and MacInnis were hurt. Francis made the team but didn't play because of injuries as well.

1991 Canadian Canada Cup team - I guess you can't question it too much if they won, but I'll mention it anyway. This team didn't have Roy either. Lemieux was hurt. Bourque chose not to play. There were also a bunch who didn't play for a variety of reasons: Neely, Oates, Recchi, Sakic and Yzerman. Mike Keenan took a gamble I thought.

1972 Canadian team (1972 Summit Series) - Politics played a big part in Hull, Tremblay, Cheevers and perhaps even Sanderson not making it. I've never been 100% sold on Sanderson deserving it though. Orr was hurt with his knees and a 1972 version of Orr is as good as they come. Also some questionable guys left off the team. Keon would have made a good fit. Lemaire too.

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11-15-2012, 05:51 PM
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I can't think of any great players left off of Sweden's 2002 Olympic team.

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11-15-2012, 06:46 PM
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Zine
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Keep it to top level tournaments 1972 Summit Series and onwards, and focus more on the teams who did well rather than the Germany and Slovakias of the hockey world.

The team that got the highest percentage of their best players:

1976 Canada Cup (Canada) - Probably the best team ever iced. Only Brad Park (injured) on defense was left off. Rene Robert got cut from this team if that tells you anything and while Parent and Dryden were injured Vachon didn't take a backwards step

2002 Canadian Olympic team - I guess Joe Thornton being left off is somewhat noticeable but it isn't a big deal. Roy chose not to play but the other three goalies were right in the mix with him anyway.

2010 Canadian Olympic team - Took a page from 2002. Stamkos not on the team was a little questionable although he wasn't even 20 yet. Mike Green being left off raised a few eyebrows but I can see why now. You had Pronger, Niedermayer, Boyle, Weber, Keith, Doughty and Seabrook. Obviously they want a stay at home guy in Seabrook so I can understand leaving the accident prone Green at home.

1996 World Cup (USA) - Had all their best players on their greatest team ever iced. Roenick and Beezer weren't there because I believe neither had a contract at the time. Or maybe Beezer was injured. I don't think he makes a step up from Richter though. Roenick would make the team a bit better I think, but not much.

1987 Russian Canada Cup team - The KLM line at their prime. Fetisov (who missed the 1984 Canada Cup), Kasatonov and a young Kamensky. Also, Bykov, Lomakin, etc.Too bad Tretiak was retired, but other than that this was all the Russian stars.


The team with the worst percentage of their players:

1976 Russian Canada Cup team - They left a bunch off the team either for a built in excuse or to punish them. Either way, they purposely left off Yakushev, Mikhailov, Petrov and then they also had Kharlamov get into a car accident and couldn't play.

1996 World Cup (Canada) - They didn't even invite Roy. Which left them with an old Ranford, a young Brodeur and a shaky Joseph as their starter. To this day I've never made any sense of that Roy decision. Bourque also chose not to play. Lemieux, Kariya and MacInnis were hurt. Francis made the team but didn't play because of injuries as well.

1991 Canadian Canada Cup team - I guess you can't question it too much if they won, but I'll mention it anyway. This team didn't have Roy either. Lemieux was hurt. Bourque chose not to play. There were also a bunch who didn't play for a variety of reasons: Neely, Oates, Recchi, Sakic and Yzerman. Mike Keenan took a gamble I thought.

1972 Canadian team (1972 Summit Series) - Politics played a big part in Hull, Tremblay, Cheevers and perhaps even Sanderson not making it. I've never been 100% sold on Sanderson deserving it though. Orr was hurt with his knees and a 1972 version of Orr is as good as they come. Also some questionable guys left off the team. Keon would have made a good fit. Lemaire too.

No, not 1987 Soviets.

Starikov was missing on the defense. Also injured as Sergei Yashin and Sergei Svetlov. So the Yashin-Semenov-Svetlov line didn't play (they were Soviets #2 line previous to the tourney).
In fact, Larionov in his book said the Dynamo trio of Yashin-Semenov-Svetlov was the line that gave KLM the most difficulty ever.


Last edited by Zine: 11-15-2012 at 06:52 PM.
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Old
11-15-2012, 07:15 PM
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No, not 1987 Soviets.
No Tretiak no gold

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11-15-2012, 07:19 PM
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They weren't terrible selections but I feel there were better options for the 98 Nagono team than notably Shayne Corson and Zamuner. Sakic/Kariya were injured.

And I'm a fan of Eric Lindros but they made Eric Lindros captain

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11-15-2012, 09:10 PM
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No, not 1987 Soviets.

Starikov was missing on the defense. Also injured as Sergei Yashin and Sergei Svetlov. So the Yashin-Semenov-Svetlov line didn't play (they were Soviets #2 line previous to the tourney).
In fact, Larionov in his book said the Dynamo trio of Yashin-Semenov-Svetlov was the line that gave KLM the most difficulty ever.
Really too bad, it would have been nice to see them considering how good the Bykov line was in the number 2 spot.

Speaking of Russians, the 1991 Canada Cup team has got to feature the lowest percentage of a nation's top players.

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11-16-2012, 10:53 AM
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2010 Canadian Olympic team - Took a page from 2002. Stamkos not on the team was a little questionable although he wasn't even 20 yet.
Martin Saint-Louis should have been on board. At least as good as Stamkos at that point, but proven too. He was 34, but with how good he was and with the tournament played on NHL-sized rinks there was no reason to leave him out.

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11-16-2012, 01:49 PM
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1987 Russian Canada Cup team - The KLM line at their prime. Fetisov (who missed the 1984 Canada Cup), Kasatonov and a young Kamensky. Also, Bykov, Lomakin, etc.Too bad Tretiak was retired, but other than that this was all the Russian stars.
Wouldn't the 1988 Soviet Oympic team be considered even greater, considering that team included Mogilny? Tikhonov said that was his favorite team (notwithstanding his famous punch at Mogilny).

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11-16-2012, 02:56 PM
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They weren't terrible selections but I feel there were better options for the 98 Nagono team than notably Shayne Corson and Zamuner. Sakic/Kariya were injured.

And I'm a fan of Eric Lindros but they made Eric Lindros captain
I would have thought the absence of Sakic, Kariya, Lemieux would have been enough to put the Nagano team on the dubious half of Phil's list (i.e. teams missing key players).

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11-16-2012, 03:08 PM
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I can't think of any great players left off of Sweden's 2002 Olympic team.
There was some third/fourth line tweener named Forcebag or something that was injured, but he probably wouldn't have made the team anyway.

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11-16-2012, 03:20 PM
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There was some third/fourth line tweener named Forcebag or something that was injured, but he probably wouldn't have made the team anyway.
Yeah, I realized that major oversight after posting, figured I'd just let someone catch it though. Forsberg notwithstanding, that team had more or less all the top guys.

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11-16-2012, 03:38 PM
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Really too bad, it would have been nice to see them considering how good the Bykov line was in the number 2 spot.

Speaking of Russians, the 1991 Canada Cup team has got to feature the lowest percentage of a nation's top players.
Yeah, anything of 1990s Russia should top the list, imo.
FHR was in disarray and players wanted none of their nonsense. Probably for the better because we saw how a team of disgruntled superstars performs (Russia 1996 world cup).

1991 Soviets was missing everybody.
1998 Olympic was without Khabibulin, Mogilny, Zubov, Konstantinov, Kozlov, Malakhov, Kovalev, etc. etc.

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11-16-2012, 03:53 PM
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Yeah, I realized that major oversight after posting, figured I'd just let someone catch it though. Forsberg notwithstanding, that team had more or less all the top guys.
I would probably say that the Swedish 2010 team was more close to 100%. The only notable players missing from that team are Kristian Huselius (63 points) , Mikael Samuelsson (53 points) and Alexander Steen (47 points). But they were not injured, they simly didn't make the cut. Holmström was part of the original squad but had to withdraw due to injury. Both Forsberg and Franzén were battling through injuries as well, but still played.

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11-16-2012, 07:09 PM
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I would have thought the absence of Sakic, Kariya, Lemieux would have been enough to put the Nagano team on the dubious half of Phil's list (i.e. teams missing key players).
I thought of the 1998 team but then I realized that while Kariya missed the tournament Sakic actually played in most of it but missed the playoff games. Lemieux was retired at that time so I really wasn't sure if he counted or not as it was. Other than that the 1998 team more or less had the best Canadians. Messier and Niedermayer come to mind as arguments for missing the tournament but that's about it. The goaltending and the defense were certainly top notch.

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11-16-2012, 07:19 PM
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The thing that irks me with the 72 Canadian team is that Dennis Hull played. Now I imagine Bobby gave him his blessing and Dennis was representing his country for the first time so I'll give him a break, but that whole political thing just reeks. And Canada was supposed to be representing democracy!

The 81 Canada Cup team is kind of an in betweener. Not their highest percentage of top players, but still a very good lineup. Change two names and you got another elite lineup.

Roy being left off of the 91 team was no surprise. Up to then, he was really quite streaky, often unstable. Perhaps the pressure of playing in Montreal does that to players. He really found a consistent elite game around 93 and after he left. Maturity I suppose. Also, I am amazed at how many guys decided not to play. I wonder if the Lindros pick was a factor or was it Keenan?

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11-17-2012, 11:57 AM
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The thing that irks me with the 72 Canadian team is that Dennis Hull played. Now I imagine Bobby gave him his blessing and Dennis was representing his country for the first time so I'll give him a break, but that whole political thing just reeks. And Canada was supposed to be representing democracy!
Political thing? Democracy? What are you talking about?

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Roy being left off of the 91 team was no surprise.
He wasn't left off. They asked him, but he had a sinus operation in August.

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Also, I am amazed at how many guys decided not to play.
Ray Bourque and then who?

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11-17-2012, 07:57 PM
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Yeah, anything of 1990s Russia should top the list, imo.
FHR was in disarray and players wanted none of their nonsense. Probably for the better because we saw how a team of disgruntled superstars performs (Russia 1996 world cup).

1991 Soviets was missing everybody.
Somewhat oddly, they did have Fedorov though.

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11-17-2012, 08:10 PM
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Political thing? Democracy? What are you talking about
Hull was deemed ineligible to play because he was no longer an NHL player; he had jumped to the rival WHA. Well, this was team Canada, not NHL, and Hull didn't give up his citizenship. So like a dictator, whoever at the NHL hastily decides Hull can't play. Sour grapes.

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Ray Bourque and then who?
I had forgotten Roy had that operation. As for the others, read Big Phil's OP.

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11-18-2012, 12:06 AM
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I had forgotten Roy had that operation. As for the others, read Big Phil's OP.
Most of those guys were victims of Keenan's idiotic selections, not guys who turned down the opportunity to play for Canada. Keenan even said that Yzerman got quite heated when he told him that he was off the team.

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11-18-2012, 01:01 AM
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Most of those guys were victims of Keenan's idiotic selections, not guys who turned down the opportunity to play for Canada. Keenan even said that Yzerman got quite heated when he told him that he was off the team.
Hence the team's nickname, "Gretzky and the grinders".

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11-18-2012, 09:03 AM
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Hull was deemed ineligible to play because he was no longer an NHL player; he had jumped to the rival WHA. Well, this was team Canada, not NHL, and Hull didn't give up his citizenship. So like a dictator, whoever at the NHL hastily decides Hull can't play. Sour grapes.
Yes, but what is your issue with Dennis Hull?

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I had forgotten Roy had that operation. As for the others, read Big Phil's OP.
The others were either injured or without contract. Bourque was the only one who simply decided not to play.

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11-18-2012, 09:25 AM
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Yeah, anything of 1990s Russia should top the list, imo.
FHR was in disarray and players wanted none of their nonsense. Probably for the better because we saw how a team of disgruntled superstars performs (Russia 1996 world cup).

1991 Soviets was missing everybody.
Interesting to see Alexei Kasatonov on the team as the only one from the Green Unit. Did the other say no thanks or was this becouse Kasatonov earlier had had a different stance towards russians being able to leave for the NHL? Fetisov maybe was'nt wlling to play on a team with Kasatonov becouse of their fight?

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11-18-2012, 10:08 AM
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Interesting to see Alexei Kasatonov on the team as the only one from the Green Unit. Did the other say no thanks or was this becouse Kasatonov earlier had had a different stance towards russians being able to leave for the NHL? Fetisov maybe was'nt wlling to play on a team with Kasatonov becouse of their fight?

Fetisov wasn't invited. A lot of NHLers refused the invite (although a few accepted, Fedorov being one). Some guys still playing in USSR were left off the roster for fear they'd defect. Kamensky was out with a broken leg and Bykov-Khomutov weren't released from their Swiss team.

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11-19-2012, 01:39 AM
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The thing that irks me with the 72 Canadian team is that Dennis Hull played. Now I imagine Bobby gave him his blessing and Dennis was representing his country for the first time so I'll give him a break, but that whole political thing just reeks. And Canada was supposed to be representing democracy!
In Dennis Hull's book, he says he didn't want to go once he knew that Bobby wasn't going to be allowed to play, but that Bobby convinced him to.

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11-19-2012, 01:45 AM
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In Dennis Hull's book, he says he didn't want to go once he knew that Bobby wasn't going to be allowed to play, but that Bobby convinced him to.
Thanks. That's kind of what I suspected. Family before country.

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