HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Mark Recchi's advice to players is to sign CBA now

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-17-2012, 05:57 PM
  #451
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 10,722
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
For the guys who got bought out but couldn't find a job anywhere else because they were replaced by an inexpensive rookie the 24% rollback was probably a better option than forced retirement. While the PA membership did not change that came at the expense of long term members who were forced out for new rookies who would not have previously been a part of the PA.

It also appears you missed my point. The rollback in effect saved a lot of guys from being bought out. In your example it would be 3.8 million after rollback vs 3.3 for being bought out. The guys who got bought out anyways lost out, but don't forget, the players volunteered the rollback without even being asked.
Which guys were bought out and forced to retire as a result? I don't recall any of those really. Maybe they had to play for markedly less than their previous contract but I don't remember any players simply unable to find work because they cost too much even though they still have the skill and ability to play at a high level.

FissionFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2012, 06:01 PM
  #452
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country:
Posts: 29,855
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
For the guys who got bought out but couldn't find a job anywhere else because they were replaced by an inexpensive rookie the 24% rollback was probably a better option than forced retirement. While the PA membership did not change that came at the expense of long term members who were forced out for new rookies who would not have previously been a part of the PA.

It also appears you missed my point. The rollback in effect saved a lot of guys from being bought out. In your example it would be 3.8 million after rollback vs 3.3 for being bought out. The guys who got bought out anyways lost out, but don't forget, the players volunteered the rollback without even being asked.

The guys who were bought out did get that money. They didn't have to play to get it either.

Then, they also got new contracts. In some ways, they did the best since they managed to double up in pay in a sense.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2012, 06:51 PM
  #453
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 15,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
It's the very reason the PA hired Fehr for this lockout. They don't want to get bent over like they did with Goodenow.
The NHLPA could be getting very close to a Goodenow-like conclusion to these negotiations. A cancelled season is what the NHLPA wants?

KINGS17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2012, 06:58 PM
  #454
rynryn
Progress to the Mean
 
rynryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Minny
Country: United States
Posts: 21,508
vCash: 50
it makes no sense. the players association can't possibly benefit more through the life of this next CBA than they'd lose in wages a whole season spent to gain the deal they wanted, can they? Unless the CBA is forever.

rynryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2012, 07:29 PM
  #455
Pepper
Registered User
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
What? When the season was about to be canceled, he offered a salary cap in the late-night emails which were intended to be made public by TSN.
Let's remember your original claim which was "Goodenow had no balls". He turned down NHL's final offer and made a counter offer which was refused and then NHL shut down the season.

And you're telling us that Goodenow had no balls?? Sheesh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Otherwise, if you're in such awe of not being able to comprehend a different form of reasoning, feel free to stay in your bubble.
Thank you for the ad hominem but I'm fairly confident that I understand the CBA issues much better than you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
I do remembr the very short Paul Kelly Era, don't know if he actually accomplished anything, but the point was Fehr is here because there is no one out there who is less likely to fold when Bettman goes for the jugular.
Paul Kelly was the NHLPA director for roughly 2 years, about the same Fehr has had the position.

Pepper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2012, 07:30 PM
  #456
Pepper
Registered User
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Yes, this was completely and unequivocally Gary's CBA.
You didn't answer the question; did NHL get all they wanted like you claimed?

Pepper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 12:09 AM
  #457
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 12,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
it makes no sense. the players association can't possibly benefit more through the life of this next CBA than they'd lose in wages a whole season spent to gain the deal they wanted, can they? Unless the CBA is forever.
The only way the PA could benefit more is if they lose linkage and the cap. A very tall order. They would have been dollar justified holding out this long on the NHL's opening offer but not the subsequent ones.

Both sides are caught up in a legal game which has serious shortcomings which are recognized by many. This sort of thing happens in other areas of the legal profession. This would be a good point in time to publicly acknowledge the shortcomings of leverage and timing in negotiations. Some in the legal profession are more enamored of mediation/arbitration because it doesn't drag on so much and because less is spent on third parties. The switchover from one mode to the other usually means switching from defining the conflict as win/lose to defining it as win/win.

SJeasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 01:35 AM
  #458
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country:
Posts: 29,855
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
You didn't answer the question; did NHL get all they wanted like you claimed?

I did answer the question. His CBA, and yes, he got what he wanted.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 02:47 AM
  #459
Kirk Muller
Registered User
 
Kirk Muller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brrr -18, Gomez Cold
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,332
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I did answer the question. His CBA, and yes, he got what he wanted.
again you provide no proof. again you assume to know all what goes on in the meetings of the last CBA when frankly you know just as little as the rest of us

Kirk Muller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 02:54 AM
  #460
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country:
Posts: 29,855
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
again you provide no proof. again you assume to know all what goes on in the meetings of the last CBA when frankly you know just as little as the rest of us
If you wish to continue to believe that the NHL took a CBA that they didn't ~really~ want or didn't get all that they ~really~ wanted, that is your prerogative.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 03:02 AM
  #461
Ogopogo*
 
Ogopogo*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
If you wish to continue to believe that the NHL took a CBA that they didn't ~really~ want or didn't get all that they ~really~ wanted, that is your prerogative.
I think they took a CBA that was as good as they were going to get and they hoped it would cure the ills of the league. 8 years later, it is obvious it didn't go as far as they needed it to.

Ogopogo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 05:10 AM
  #462
Pepper
Registered User
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
If you wish to continue to believe that the NHL took a CBA that they didn't ~really~ want or didn't get all that they ~really~ wanted, that is your prerogative.
No, you claimed NHL got *ALL* they wanted and you have zero evidence to back it up.

Pepper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 08:00 AM
  #463
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 15,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I did answer the question. His CBA, and yes, he got what he wanted.
...and even if he did, that doesn't matter.

KINGS17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 09:03 AM
  #464
petrobruin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: London Ont.
Posts: 648
vCash: 500
Really

Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Recchi is pissed that the PA director actually has a pair of grapefruits as opposed to when he was playing
Good argument , What exactly does he stand to gain by giving this advice besides venting his bitterness that the new nhlpa director is a tougher now.

Maybe he is pointing out that the players are in a lose - lose position and the longer it goes on now the more the players stand to lose going forward.

petrobruin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 09:19 AM
  #465
SerenityRick
Registered User
 
SerenityRick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Moultonborough, NH
Country: United States
Posts: 14,038
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SerenityRick
OT: Why wasn't another CBA thread made after the last one was closed?

SerenityRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 09:20 AM
  #466
Maineice11
Registered User
 
Maineice11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maine
Country: United States
Posts: 6,377
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to Maineice11
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrobruin View Post
Good argument , What exactly does he stand to gain by giving this advice besides venting his bitterness that the new nhlpa director is a tougher now.

Maybe he is pointing out that the players are in a lose - lose position and the longer it goes on now the more the players stand to lose going forward.
on NHL Network Radio this week when they talked about Recchi's comments they said he could possibly be voicing his opinions that side with the nhl to try to get a job with the league eventually. So he does have something to gain maybe, if that is what he wants. This is speculation on their part, not facts.

Maineice11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 09:25 AM
  #467
SerenityRick
Registered User
 
SerenityRick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Moultonborough, NH
Country: United States
Posts: 14,038
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SerenityRick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maineice11 View Post
on NHL Network Radio this week when they talked about Recchi's comments they said he could possibly be voicing his opinions that side with the nhl to try to get a job with the league eventually. So he does have something to gain maybe, if that is what he wants. This is speculation on their part, not facts.
That's not it.

He was a big voice on the other side of the NHLPA when they ousted Kelly because he knew Fehr or whoever the PA got would probably lead them straight to another lock out.

I don't think he's ever come out and said it but I always got the feeling that he wasn't a fan of the Union. Of course I could be wrong.

SerenityRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 09:56 AM
  #468
petrobruin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: London Ont.
Posts: 648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SerenityRick View Post
That's not it.

He was a big voice on the other side of the NHLPA when they ousted Kelly because he knew Fehr or whoever the PA got would probably lead them straight to another lock out.

I don't think he's ever come out and said it but I always got the feeling that he wasn't a fan of the Union. Of course I could be wrong.
He was a high ranking member in the union as eary as 2009.

petrobruin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 10:12 AM
  #469
PensFanSince1989
Registered User
 
PensFanSince1989's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,722
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SerenityRick View Post
OT: Why wasn't another CBA thread made after the last one was closed?
its been moved to the general discussion forum.

PensFanSince1989 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 10:16 AM
  #470
predfan98
Registered User
 
predfan98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,465
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Don't kid yourself, Shea Weber is worth more to the Preds and the NHL than he'll ever get paid. The Preds tried to take advantage of him, that's why he got pissed.
The Preds never tried to take advantage of him. You're so wrong.

If you're talking about the arbitration summer, his agent orchestrated that and would not talk to the Preds at all in the month before a decision had to be made. He switched agents a month before the July deadline to a second rate no nothing agency that can't even spell check their own website.


Pekka Rinne is our leader in Nashville. Shea is just another money grubbing pro athlete. So he's showed his true colors to the fans in Nashville and hid behind , "oh, my agents take care of it, it's just business". Well, Shea it's just business, and we'll ride you like a rented mule--- so just pull your $14 million weight and we won't boo you.

predfan98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 10:44 AM
  #471
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A. suburb
Country: United States
Posts: 8,859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
I think they took a CBA that was as good as they were going to get and they hoped it would cure the ills of the league. 8 years later, it is obvious it didn't go as far as they needed it to.
If the CBA that just expired had had 8 yr maximum terms and 10% max. salary variance between contract years, I doubt we would currently be in a lockout.

It was just too opened ended, and GMs stretched it as far as they could to the overall detriment of the league.

Add these 2 points to CBA, and the rest of the details will just fall into place.

Butch 19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 10:56 AM
  #472
Kirk Muller
Registered User
 
Kirk Muller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brrr -18, Gomez Cold
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,332
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
If you wish to continue to believe that the NHL took a CBA that they didn't ~really~ want or didn't get all that they ~really~ wanted, that is your prerogative.
by that logic, the NHLPA took that contract and got all they wanted so should shut up about how screwed they were last time.

MOD


Last edited by Fugu: 11-18-2012 at 03:10 PM. Reason: generalizing, "if you think ____, then _____
Kirk Muller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 11:04 AM
  #473
TaketheCannoli
RIP
 
TaketheCannoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 8,514
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
No, you claimed NHL got *ALL* they wanted and you have zero evidence to back it up.
I have to wonder if you were watching the last lockout as closely as you probably are watvhing this one.

Essentially, the NHL broke the union via an end run ( a seceret meeting between Bill to the PA executive committee in Niagara Falls and dictates the terms of the agreement. The League made what it considered a few "symbolic" concessions. They dictated the terms and in doing so made some mistakes they want to correct this time around from their point of view.

TaketheCannoli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 11:22 AM
  #474
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Morocco
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
Well, Shea it's just business, and we'll ride you like a rented mule---
.... thanks, I needed that. Morning Smile.

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 11:29 AM
  #475
Gotaf7
Registered User
 
Gotaf7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Winterpeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 560
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
its been moved to the general discussion forum.
And quickly has gone down hill, total waste of time now.

Gotaf7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:49 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.