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General UFC/MMA/boxing discussion - Bute vs. Pascal?

View Poll Results: Who wins a fight between Lucian Bute and Jean Pascal ?
Lucian Bute 9 36.00%
Jean Pascal 15 60.00%
Draw 1 4.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-18-2012, 01:14 AM
  #176
Poulet Kostopoulos
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Trying to understand this comment... How about Condit's face?
Condit's face looks fine. If you were just watching their faces at the press conf, you'd think Condit won.

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11-18-2012, 01:18 AM
  #177
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Not a UFC fan (I find grappling boring, give me boxing any day even in its sad current state), but damn, GSP is a beast.

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11-18-2012, 01:23 AM
  #178
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I know nothing of that sport, but isn't that Hendricks guy scarrier? Know we are talking about a different weight division but geez....I'd be more scared of that one-punch guy than an overall other great tactician even if it means moving up and try to get bigger. But again, I'm surely wrong.
Anderson Silva has solid take-down defense (not the best), awesome stand-up (precise as **** with BOTH legs and hands), and good submissions. Add to that his height and weight advantages, and his experience in the octagon... He's definitely the most dangerous and scary fighter of the 170-185-205lbs divisions.

What I'd like to see next is GSP stay in his weight division and fight a guy like Hendricks, who has insane knock-out power and is a great wrestler. Next guy in the weight class for GSP. I fear Anderson Silva would be too much for GSP.

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11-18-2012, 02:10 AM
  #179
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It seems a lot of people now say Silva will be too much for GSP. Is it because he almost lost tonight? Were these same people saying the same thing 2 years ago? Don't forget that GSP just came back from a serious injury. That cannot be repeated enough. And right away, he got to fight the best of the division -- he had no preparation fight. Has that ever been done before? He looked totally spent at the end of the fight but still pretty much dominated the fight. From here, he will only get better. So I think it's a stretch to say Silva is too much for GSP.

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11-18-2012, 02:10 AM
  #180
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Just watched the fight. I'm happy to see my prediction was dead wrong. St-Pierre didn't lose a step, and he's still the amazing take down artist he used to. Great fight.

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11-18-2012, 02:13 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Watching the post-fight press conference right now. Again, GSP is in a league of his own -- giving elaborate answers and very classly. At the other end, you have Condit who answers with one liners, if not one word. That's why GSP has sponsors like UnderArmour, Google and Gatorade. UFC and MMA need GSP if they want to be considered a "big league" sport.
I think Condit wasn't in the best mood and reasonably so. When they lined up for the decision I believe he said "****" to himself several times, upset he didn't succeed. In my limited UFC(or MMA) viewing, I'd say Condit is very classy as well. George st pierre makes an art of it but condit really was all class as well.

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11-18-2012, 02:23 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think Condit wasn't in the best mood and reasonably so. When they lined up for the decision I believe he said "****" to himself several times, upset he didn't succeed. In my limited UFC(or MMA) viewing, I'd say Condit is very classy as well. George st pierre makes an art of it but condit really was all class as well.
Condit was classy in the sense that he was a classy loser. He has been total class no doubt. What I meant by class in my other comment was more about his clothing. Most MMA fighters don't realize that if they want their sport to grow and appeal to more people, they need to change their image. Dana White himself used to wear a freaking t-shirt, tracksuit or something like that. Now, he at least wears a jacket, if not a suit.

Here's a story (in French) about how GSP managed to build a brand and image that transcend his sport: http://www.tou.tv/une-heure-sur-terre/S2012E07


Last edited by Poulet Kostopoulos: 11-18-2012 at 02:30 AM.
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Old
11-18-2012, 03:34 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
It seems a lot of people now say Silva will be too much for GSP. Is it because he almost lost tonight? Were these same people saying the same thing 2 years ago? Don't forget that GSP just came back from a serious injury. That cannot be repeated enough. And right away, he got to fight the best of the division -- he had no preparation fight. Has that ever been done before? He looked totally spent at the end of the fight but still pretty much dominated the fight. From here, he will only get better. So I think it's a stretch to say Silva is too much for GSP.
I've been saying Silva is a bad match up for GSP since the idea was first brought up.
Silva is arguably the best fighter of all time, all sports combined. He really is on another level. GSP fighting him was simply be a bad decision on behalf of the welterweight champ. Silva isn't too much just to GSP, he's too much for every fighter in the world.
GSP would have no chance, none.

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11-18-2012, 04:43 AM
  #184
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Pretty impressed by that Condit guy. It was great seeing George go through a genuine drag out fight for a change.

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11-18-2012, 05:36 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I've been saying Silva is a bad match up for GSP since the idea was first brought up.
Silva is arguably the best fighter of all time, all sports combined. He really is on another level. GSP fighting him was simply be a bad decision on behalf of the welterweight champ. Silva isn't too much just to GSP, he's too much for every fighter in the world.
GSP would have no chance, none.
Not in the world buddy. Most well trained martial artists dont use their training to beat up other men. Many don't feel the need to show off what they can do inside a cage like a barbarian.

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11-18-2012, 07:32 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I've been saying Silva is a bad match up for GSP since the idea was first brought up.
Silva is arguably the best fighter of all time, all sports combined. He really is on another level. GSP fighting him was simply be a bad decision on behalf of the welterweight champ. Silva isn't too much just to GSP, he's too much for every fighter in the world.
GSP would have no chance, none.
I would put my money on bones jones if he fought Silva. C'mon Dana make it happen!

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11-18-2012, 08:32 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I've been saying Silva is a bad match up for GSP since the idea was first brought up.
Silva is arguably the best fighter of all time, all sports combined. He really is on another level. GSP fighting him was simply be a bad decision on behalf of the welterweight champ. Silva isn't too much just to GSP, he's too much for every fighter in the world.
GSP would have no chance, none.
While I agree that Silva is just too big for GSP I would put money on Jones to beat Silva any day. GSP is to Silva what Silva is to Jones.

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11-18-2012, 08:46 AM
  #188
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Not in the world buddy. Most well trained martial artists dont use their training to beat up other men. Many don't feel the need to show off what they can do inside a cage like a barbarian.
That just isn't true. Most martial artists who are not involved in MMA are completely one dimensional and are not in anywhere near the same shape that the fighters in the UFC are. Many martial arts are simply arts that are not practical and are simply.....arts. Tae kwon doe for example is a useless art when used in combat as it relies far too heavily on low percentage head kicks and Kung Fu is an absolute joke as it is purely an art.

Jiu Jitsu is the closest martial art on it's own that can be used in the octagon but is rarely succesful anymore without incorporating other striking arts with it.

The only arguement that can be made for other martial artists being succesful against MMA fighters is to have them fight while fully clothed. There are many tactics that are used in the UFC that are not succesful with a clothed opponent whereas miltary training accounts for this variable. That being said, it would be a very small learning curve for MMA fighters to make this adjustment and quickly dominate in this area as well.

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11-18-2012, 08:48 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
While I agree that Silva is just too big for GSP I would put money on Jones to beat Silva any day. GSP is to Silva what Silva is to Jones.
Same logic --> GSP < Silva < Jones < JDS

Now, I'm waiting for a heavyweight bout between JDS and Overeem. GSP is a better wrestler than Sonnen, so his only chance is through take-downs. Standing up, I'd be worried if I was GSP.

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11-18-2012, 08:52 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by PhysicX View Post
Same logic --> GSP < Silva < Jones < JDS

Now, I'm waiting for a heavyweight bout between JDS and Overeem. GSP is a better wrestler than Sonnen, so his only chance is through take-downs. Standing up, I'd be worried if I was GSP.
Agreed!

I do think that JDS would make quik work of Overeem as there is a huge gap in skill between the two fighters.

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11-18-2012, 09:16 AM
  #191
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Anderson Silva has solid take-down defense (not the best), awesome stand-up (precise as **** with BOTH legs and hands), and good submissions. Add to that his height and weight advantages, and his experience in the octagon... He's definitely the most dangerous and scary fighter of the 170-185-205lbs divisions.

What I'd like to see next is GSP stay in his weight division and fight a guy like Hendricks, who has insane knock-out power and is a great wrestler. Next guy in the weight class for GSP. I fear Anderson Silva would be too much for GSP.
Silva won't have any weight advantage... they always fight at the same weight. You'd have to assume GSP gaining more muscle for a fight would result in him being stronger than Silva losing muscle to lose weight. The reach Silva would clearly have but GSP is in a class of his own wrestling wise and Sonnen handed Silva his ass with his wrestling. GSP could most definitely beat Silva using his wrestling.. no fighter in the world has been able to even remotely hindered GSP taking them down... Silva would be no different.

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11-18-2012, 09:20 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
It seems a lot of people now say Silva will be too much for GSP. Is it because he almost lost tonight? Were these same people saying the same thing 2 years ago? Don't forget that GSP just came back from a serious injury. That cannot be repeated enough. And right away, he got to fight the best of the division -- he had no preparation fight. Has that ever been done before? He looked totally spent at the end of the fight but still pretty much dominated the fight. From here, he will only get better. So I think it's a stretch to say Silva is too much for GSP.
I hardly think GSP almost lost the fight. He won the 3rd round even though he got knocked on his ass. If anything I think that bodes well for GSP, because that would certainly happen to him against silva and its good to see he can get back up and rebound. But GSP would most certainly lose against silva. He's too big. If they met at 179 pounds, GSP wouldn't be as fast since he'd be carrying more weight. His speed is his greatest asset and if that changed, he'd be done for. The only reason he'd take that fight is to please the fans and get the money.

What an incredible fight! Condit is a beast though. He didn't give george very much on the ground.

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11-18-2012, 09:37 AM
  #193
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I hardly think GSP almost lost the fight. He won the 3rd round even though he got knocked on his ass. If anything I think that bodes well for GSP, because that would certainly happen to him against silva and its good to see he can get back up and rebound. But GSP would most certainly lose against silva. He's too big. If they met at 179 pounds, GSP wouldn't be as fast since he'd be carrying more weight. His speed is his greatest asset and if that changed, he'd be done for. The only reason he'd take that fight is to please the fans and get the money.

What an incredible fight! Condit is a beast though. He didn't give george very much on the ground.
GSP gaining 9 pounds isn't going to suddenly make him slow... the guy is an animal and knows how to add weight properly. Not to mention he is 170 at weigh in... that isn't necessarily his fight weight.

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11-18-2012, 10:03 AM
  #194
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Agreed!

I do think that JDS would make quik work of Overeem as there is a huge gap in skill between the two fighters.
Agreed, but I still want to see this fight! Man crush on Overeem's hugeness.

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11-18-2012, 10:29 AM
  #195
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Not in the world buddy. Most well trained martial artists dont use their training to beat up other men. Many don't feel the need to show off what they can do inside a cage like a barbarian.
Yea? And how exactly do you know those hidden fighters would actually be better? You don't. Maybe there are some better fighters, but we have no clue of that's actually true. So I won't spend much time talking about them.

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I would put my money on bones jones if he fought Silva. C'mon Dana make it happen!
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While I agree that Silva is just too big for GSP I would put money on Jones to beat Silva any day. GSP is to Silva what Silva is to Jones.
I still don't understand how people would bet against Silva so easily. The guy dominates his opponents so easily, and does things never done before. I mean, the guy will purposely back up onto the cage, drop his gloves, and practice avoiding punches, once he gets bored from that, he comes forward and knocks out his opponent with a body shot. This in a weight class above his versus a guy that had never been knocked down and who we know is very resistant.
Not to mention how he destroyed all his opponents in his weight class.

Jones hasn't impressed me in his last two fights. Going to distance versus Evans, and 4 rounds against Belfort, a guy Silva KOd with a front kick.

To count out Silva would be quite foolish. He's proven he can dominate any kind of fighter, even in higher weight class. So to say you'd bet against him every day of the week if it'd be versus Jones, as if it's a sure bet, is foolish imo. At the very least, it's 50-50, but I'd put money on Silva.

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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Silva won't have any weight advantage... they always fight at the same weight. You'd have to assume GSP gaining more muscle for a fight would result in him being stronger than Silva losing muscle to lose weight. The reach Silva would clearly have but GSP is in a class of his own wrestling wise and Sonnen handed Silva his ass with his wrestling. GSP could most definitely beat Silva using his wrestling.. no fighter in the world has been able to even remotely hindered GSP taking them down... Silva would be no different.
Silva would not lose muscle. Silva would cut his weight, mostly water, before the weigh ins, and then put it back on.
Sonnen took Silva down, but never hurt him, and yet he still got submitted. In the rematch, Sonnen got beat up.
People look at Silva's fight versus Sonnen and say ''ahh, he almost lost, his wrestling ain't good'', I look at it and think this guy is unbeatable. Despite being on his back for most of his fight, he waits to the last second to pull out a submission. Many people think Silva was toying a bit with Sonnen, just like he does standing up and lets fighters punch him in the face. Never know with him.
But if it really was all dominance by Sonnen and nothing more than a simple mistake, then you'd figure he'll dominate again in rematch and won't make the same mistake. Nope, he gets his ass KOd.
GSP could get Silva down, I'm sure of it, but going through Silva's pin point punches would hurt him and probably KO him.
No doubt Silva would win. None.

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11-18-2012, 10:34 AM
  #196
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Silva would not lose muscle. Silva would cut his weight, mostly water, before the weigh ins, and then put it back on.
He would have to lose muscle... he's a big middleweight. He's gone up to 205 several times. In order to get to 179 he'd have to lose some muscle.

Quote:
Sonnen took Silva down, but never hurt him, and yet he still got submitted. In the rematch, Sonnen got beat up.
People look at Silva's fight versus Sonnen and say ''ahh, he almost lost, his wrestling ain't good'', I look at it and think this guy is unbeatable. Despite being on his back for most of his fight, he waits to the last second to pull out a submission. Many people think Silva was toying a bit with Sonnen, just like he does standing up and lets fighters punch him in the face. Never know with him.
But if it really was all dominance by Sonnen and nothing more than a simple mistake, then you'd figure he'll dominate again in rematch and won't make the same mistake. Nope, he gets his ass KOd.
GSP could get Silva down, I'm sure of it, but going through Silva's pin point punches would hurt him and probably KO him.
No doubt Silva would win. None.
But that's the point... GSP never would have got caught like Sonnen did in the first fight and there's no doubt in my mind GSP can do that to Silva. Silva's show boating doesn't mean he's suddenly a better fighter than he is and you know he'd never do that to GSP.

I agree that Silva could knock GSP out for sure, but I look at the Condit fight and with Condit being a great stand up fighter GSP still controlled the stand up thoroughly and only got caught by a kick that he admittedly couldn't even see due to blurred vision in that eye. If he gets caught like that against Silva he'd be done but I don't think he even bothers standing up against Silva.

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11-18-2012, 11:07 AM
  #197
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Saying that Silva wouldn't loose muscle is incorrect, especialy if the argument is "he'll loose water in order to do the weight" All fighters loose an awful amount of water in the two days before they have to make the weight, they all weight a lot more than their weight division. So i dont know how Silva will do to loose more water than a guy already going to the limits, and assuming that Silva is already doing this to get to his 185, he'll have to loose muscles.

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11-18-2012, 11:11 AM
  #198
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I personally think GSP would lose handily against Silva. Its a good in dream fight but I think Silva's punching power, size and elusiveness wouldnt make it close. Silva has no ill effects from dropping to his current weight, thats damn clear with the results. I wager he has zero problems, nor lose any power dropping another 6 pounds for simply weigh in purposes.

No matter what, GSP would likely enter with his true weight close to the catch weight while Silva likely enter the octagon well above it.

I would also add into the punching power differences of going up another class and having a life time of taking those type of punches.

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11-18-2012, 11:15 AM
  #199
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He would have to lose muscle... he's a big middleweight. He's gone up to 205 several times. In order to get to 179 he'd have to lose some muscle.
No he wouldn't. You're talking about 6 lbs less than his regular weight class. He would lose water weight, that's it.

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But that's the point... GSP never would have got caught like Sonnen did in the first fight and there's no doubt in my mind GSP can do that to Silva. Silva's show boating doesn't mean he's suddenly a better fighter than he is and you know he'd never do that to GSP.

I agree that Silva could knock GSP out for sure, but I look at the Condit fight and with Condit being a great stand up fighter GSP still controlled the stand up thoroughly and only got caught by a kick that he admittedly couldn't even see due to blurred vision in that eye. If he gets caught like that against Silva he'd be done but I don't think he even bothers standing up against Silva.
GSP got caught versus Hughes in his early career, then Serra, his face has taken beatings before from various opponents, yesterday he got caught by Condit.
Comparing Condit's striking to Silva's is quite insulting. Silva is the most accurate striker in the game. He has devastating KO power from his hands, kicks, knees, and throws kicks/moves that are unique to his style and unpredictable. Jones is the only fighter that comes close to being comparable, but he has more to prove before being put on the same level as Silva.
GSP would obviously want to wrestle Silva down and keep him there, but that's easier said then done.
GSP loses that fight. He only had 1 way to win this fight, flawless wrestling. So, I wouldn't bet on GSP at all.

Maybe him ''showboating'' doesn't make him better, but it sure makes him more impressive, and I'm sure, more intimidating to his opponents.

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11-18-2012, 11:22 AM
  #200
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Saying that Silva wouldn't loose muscle is incorrect, especialy if the argument is "he'll loose water in order to do the weight" All fighters loose an awful amount of water in the two days before they have to make the weight, they all weight a lot more than their weight division. So i dont know how Silva will do to loose more water than a guy already going to the limits, and assuming that Silva is already doing this to get to his 185, he'll have to loose muscles.
Losing muscle takes time, a lot of time. You can lose some strength rather quickly (couple of weeks), but that's if you become inactive, which is not something you do when you train for a fight.
Anderson Silva does not go down to the limit of water weight loss before his weigh ins at 185. He doesn't even look ripped. He could lose an extra 6lbs I'm pretty sure of it.

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