HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

OEL to Edm

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-18-2012, 12:47 AM
  #76
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,059
vCash: 500
I don't think there's a chance that these players hit the block any time soon.

Exit Dose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 04:06 AM
  #77
Phenomenon13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Eberle has tremendous value and I think Eberle has more value than OEL so phx needs to add a bit. Both teams need this deal badly. OEL solves Edmonton's number one dman problem and Eberle becomes PHX franchise offensive player.

Phenomenon13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 04:39 AM
  #78
SniperHF
Global Moderator
Desert Ranger
 
SniperHF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Country: United States
Posts: 14,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenon13 View Post
Both teams need this deal badly.
I don't think so from the Phoenix side especially. The Coyotes have made the playoffs and gone pretty deep without a prototypical franchise forward.

Sure it would be great to have one but I think in the short to medium term the swap of OEL for a forward would actually be a detriment to the Coyotes in the standings. The Coyotes system is pretty finely tuned at this point and mobile highly skilled offensive defensemen are a huge part of that. Basically you are taking a clear strength (the Coyotes D Corps) and turning it into an above average squad, while only marginally improving their forward scoring. They become more mediocre as a group not excelling in any one area.

I'd rather have outstanding D and Goaltending with mediocre forwards than middle of the road forwards and D with outstanding goaltending.

SniperHF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 07:48 AM
  #79
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,059
vCash: 500
OEL is the guy in that D-pool to build around. He's their Doughty, Pietrangelo, etc. It shouldn't come down to a value consideration.

Exit Dose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 10:48 AM
  #80
cobra427
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,380
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenon13 View Post
Eberle has tremendous value and I think Eberle has more value than OEL so phx needs to add a bit. Both teams need this deal badly. OEL solves Edmonton's number one dman problem and Eberle becomes PHX franchise offensive player.
If you asked 29 GM's if they would trade OEL straight up for Eberle, the answer would be no. GMDM, who is an excellent talent evaluator, thinks OEL is a Norris candidate. You don't trade Norris candidates, that have one full year in the NHL, and were the best player(on there team) with the most defenseman minutes in the playoffs, and went to the WCF, for a winger. A winger is the easiest hole to fill, look at Ray W the last 2 years.

cobra427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 11:05 AM
  #81
Avs44
Registered User
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 7,587
vCash: 3319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenon13 View Post
Eberle has tremendous value and I think Eberle has more value than OEL so phx needs to add a bit. Both teams need this deal badly. OEL solves Edmonton's number one dman problem and Eberle becomes PHX franchise offensive player.
Really? What's your basis for stating Eberle is worth more? I think a potential #1 franchise D with Norris capability, would have more value than a potential franchise winger. I would easily take OEL over Eberle

Avs44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 11:11 AM
  #82
hbk
Registered User
 
hbk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra427 View Post
If you asked 29 GM's if they would trade OEL straight up for Eberle, the answer would be no. GMDM, who is an excellent talent evaluator, thinks OEL is a Norris candidate. You don't trade Norris candidates, that have one full year in the NHL, and were the best player(on there team) with the most defenseman minutes in the playoffs, and went to the WCF, for a winger. A winger is the easiest hole to fill, look at Ray W the last 2 years.
I agree with your assessment with OEL. He's simply an outstanding talent that will be the cornerstone of the Coyote franchise for the next decade. I honestly feel its ridiculous to even bring his name up in potential trade discussions; just as I feel it's ridiculous to talk about Eberle, Yakupov, Hall, RNH.

Let's have a frank discussion about what is available from Phoenix. It's not OEL. It won't be unless OEL decides he doesn't want to play in Phoenix. The franchise is committed to building around him and are already setting the table for a lengthy extension.

Yandle makes more sense because his game is not as well rounded as OEL. Yandle is guilty of trying to force things offensively at times which leads to chances against. In a Dave Tippett team this can be detrimental. It's why you heard the rumors of his availability this summer. Regardless though Yandle is a major talent. He was a legitimate Norris candidate two seasons ago. Had Yandle not hit a wall around the 70 game mark he likely would have been a finalist. As it is, he finished 5th in voting.

There has already been talk of a Gagner, MPS for Yandle move (Phoenix turned this down). It was a good quantity offer and it may get looked at again depending on how things play out when the season does finally start (injuries, development of numerous Coyote d prospects, etc.) but Phoenix is going to have plenty of options (Philli most notably) for teams looking for an impact defenseman. Phoenix strong preference is to find a true legitimate top line offensive center with size. Wingers they have (especially bottom 6 physical wingers) and their depth in goal (Visentin, Lee, Domingue) and Defense (Gormely, Rundblad, Stone, Summers, Murphy, etc.) is absolutely outstanding. It's top line center or bust for Maloney.


Last edited by hbk: 11-18-2012 at 11:17 AM.
hbk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 04:16 PM
  #83
rockinghockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,402
vCash: 500
Fans don't want to see either player leave their team.

What would it take to get Gormley I think he would be the perfect fit in EDM as he could play with Schultz and develop with the team?

What does PHX want for Gormley?

rockinghockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 04:29 PM
  #84
SDig14
Registered User
 
SDig14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Edmonton, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
Fans don't want to see either player leave their team.

What would it take to get Gormley I think he would be the perfect fit in EDM as he could play with Schultz and develop with the team?

What does PHX want for Gormley?
I've asked this before, and the price seemed to be too high.

They have Rundblad, OEL, Gormely, and Yandle, so they definitely have depth if the 2 not in the NHL develop half as well as the other 2, but we couldn't agree on the value of Gormely very well last time.

SDig14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 05:22 PM
  #85
Anchor Town
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,367
vCash: 500
OEL easily has more value than Eberle

Anchor Town is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 05:29 PM
  #86
KidLine93
Registered User
 
KidLine93's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Didn't read the thread yet, but it would take 1 of the Big 4 + (excluding RNH because thats suicide down the middle on Edmonton's Part) . no way either team would do it

KidLine93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 05:34 PM
  #87
Prairie Habs
Registered User
 
Prairie Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
I've asked this before, and the price seemed to be too high.

They have Rundblad, OEL, Gormely, and Yandle, so they definitely have depth if the 2 not in the NHL develop half as well as the other 2, but we couldn't agree on the value of Gormely very well last time.
The problem with Gormley is he doesn't have as much value as one of the big four but he has more value than anything else Edmonton can offer. Edmonton fans don't want a package of lesser pieces for one of the big four and Pheonix fans don't want a package of lesser pieces for Gormley. I don't see a deal to be made/

Prairie Habs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 07:43 PM
  #88
mercurium
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 23
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the banks View Post
OEL easily has more value than Eberle
This, I wonder if Phoenix fans would go for Eberle+Hall for OEL, I'm not sure I would

mercurium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 07:55 PM
  #89
ducky
Registered User
 
ducky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Home of Kokanee Beer
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercurium View Post
This, I wonder if Phoenix fans would go for Eberle+Hall for OEL, I'm not sure I would
As much as I think OEL can be a #1 for the next 10+ years that would be near impossible to turn down.

Edmonton would not offer that much though.

ducky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 07:57 PM
  #90
franfrey*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercurium View Post
This, I wonder if Phoenix fans would go for Eberle+Hall for OEL, I'm not sure I would
OK, OEL definitely has more value than Eberle (or Hall for that matter) but... Seriously?!


franfrey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 11:41 PM
  #91
KidLine93
Registered User
 
KidLine93's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercurium View Post
This, I wonder if Phoenix fans would go for Eberle+Hall for OEL, I'm not sure I would
OMG......Oilers wouldn't trade Hall straight across for OEL...never mind Hall+Eberle

KidLine93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 11:49 PM
  #92
XX
... Waiting
 
XX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 48th State
Country: United States
Posts: 27,237
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
I've asked this before, and the price seemed to be too high.

They have Rundblad, OEL, Gormely, and Yandle, so they definitely have depth if the 2 not in the NHL develop half as well as the other 2, but we couldn't agree on the value of Gormely very well last time.
Gormley has just as much hype around him as OEL within the Phoenix organization. He 'made' the roster straight from the draft, no small feat, but the Coyotes can afford to stash him away for awhile. No need to rush him. He is one of the best D prospects (guys who have never played an NHL game) out there right now. It wouldn't make sense for Edmonton to trade for him, given that they'd have to give up a proven asset when Gormley hasn't played an NHL game yet.

Rundblad may never play on a Tippett coached team, and a guy like Stone who is NHL ready may be used as trade bait because there's no room. He was a +7 in 13 games as a rookie. Very impressive. I could see a deal for those two for an offensive piece. The Coyotes could also use some salary (3m or so), depending on how the floor works out.

XX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:10 AM
  #93
Phenomenon13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperHF View Post
I don't think so from the Phoenix side especially. The Coyotes have made the playoffs and gone pretty deep without a prototypical franchise forward.

Sure it would be great to have one but I think in the short to medium term the swap of OEL for a forward would actually be a detriment to the Coyotes in the standings. The Coyotes system is pretty finely tuned at this point and mobile highly skilled offensive defensemen are a huge part of that. Basically you are taking a clear strength (the Coyotes D Corps) and turning it into an above average squad, while only marginally improving their forward scoring. They become more mediocre as a group not excelling in any one area.

I'd rather have outstanding D and Goaltending with mediocre forwards than middle of the road forwards and D with outstanding goaltending.
I see where you are coming from. I just thought it'd be nice since both are filling in a potential weakness and giving up some of their strenth to do it. this way its easier to swallow the loss of such a key player.

Phenomenon13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:57 AM
  #94
Phenomenon13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra427 View Post
If you asked 29 GM's if they would trade OEL straight up for Eberle, the answer would be no. GMDM, who is an excellent talent evaluator, thinks OEL is a Norris candidate. You don't trade Norris candidates, that have one full year in the NHL, and were the best player(on there team) with the most defenseman minutes in the playoffs, and went to the WCF, for a winger. A winger is the easiest hole to fill, look at Ray W the last 2 years.
Perhaps I am undervaluing OEL here and i apologize for that. Looking deeper into his numbers do suggest he is a better player than i thought he was. The reasoning for my agreement for the trade was because PHoenix already has a number one in Yandle that they could potentially deal for a gamebreaker in the front. Both teams can deal from a position of strength to solve their respective weaknesses. Another potential reason could be that many of PHoenix's top 6 players are aging and perhaps some more youth could help.

However, I do not like some of your reasoning for why OEL is better. OEL has the potential to be a norris but that doesn't give him norris defenseman value. May I have the source of your information where you got that information regarding gmdm believing OEL is a norris candidate. By your logic, Eberle could be a potential rocket richard winner, hart trophy winner, etc... However, both are unliekly to win these awards due to superior competition. I personally view OEL a tier below Chara, Karlsson, Doughty, Weber, Pietrangelo (The Norris Defensemen) just as i view eberle below the generational talents such as crosby, ovechkin, malkin, etc...

I do agree with the statement that wingers are easier to find but that shouldn't neccessarily give them more value. The better player should have the more value and in my opinion Eberle is currently the better player but that can change in the future, something i cannot predict.

Phenomenon13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 01:43 AM
  #95
Phenomenon13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Really? What's your basis for stating Eberle is worth more? I think a potential #1 franchise D with Norris capability, would have more value than a potential franchise winger. I would easily take OEL over Eberle
I feel that Eberle's credentials make him the better player which gives him the higher value. He has shown to be a point per game player against the other team's top checkers. Proven himself internationally. Eberle is also signed under contract for the next 5 years compared to OEL going in to RFA if there is no season. Both will be elite players and they dont grow on trees but you should not base their values solely on the position they play. For example, A franchise goalie is more difficult to acquire than a franchise defenseman. Therefore Bernier or Markstrom > OEL.

Trade values are also based on team needs/wants. I believe that Phoenix does not have an game breaker forward in the pipeline. Edmonton has recently acquired a few promosing defensemen to try and satisfy their need for a defensemn which lowers the want on OEL. However, none of these dman are on OEL's level. I see Phoenix wanting to pull the trigger more if they wish to win the cup before Doan retires. As a result they solve their weakness on offense. Phoenix also plays a strong defensive system that can survive without OEL. Phoenix also has a huge wealth of promising young defenseman coming up that can fill in OEL's shoes in the near future. For ex. Gourmley. This might make it easier to swallow for Phoenix.

Phenomenon13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 02:01 AM
  #96
Anchor Town
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenon13 View Post
For example, A franchise goalie is more difficult to acquire than a franchise defenseman. Therefore Bernier or Markstrom > OEL.
Disagree

Anchor Town is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 02:11 AM
  #97
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenon13 View Post
I feel that Eberle's credentials make him the better player which gives him the higher value. He has shown to be a point per game player against the other team's top checkers. Proven himself internationally. Eberle is also signed under contract for the next 5 years compared to OEL going in to RFA if there is no season. Both will be elite players and they dont grow on trees but you should not base their values solely on the position they play. For example, A franchise goalie is more difficult to acquire than a franchise defenseman. Therefore Bernier or Markstrom > OEL.

Trade values are also based on team needs/wants. I believe that Phoenix does not have an game breaker forward in the pipeline. Edmonton has recently acquired a few promosing defensemen to try and satisfy their need for a defensemn which lowers the want on OEL. However, none of these dman are on OEL's level. I see Phoenix wanting to pull the trigger more if they wish to win the cup before Doan retires. As a result they solve their weakness on offense. Phoenix also plays a strong defensive system that can survive without OEL. Phoenix also has a huge wealth of promising young defenseman coming up that can fill in OEL's shoes in the near future. For ex. Gourmley. This might make it easier to swallow for Phoenix.
Phoenix wouldn't be turning this down because of value. They would turn it down because OEL is a foundational defenseman. As talented as Yandle is, he doesn't provide a bit of everything in the way OEL does.

Yandle is to their blue line group what Eberle is to Edmonton's forward group. Whereas OEL is to their blue line group what RNH is to Edmonton's group of forwards. He's the guy you would anchor a team to on the backend, in the same way that RNH is who you would anchor your forward group to.

Exit Dose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 02:16 AM
  #98
Phenomenon13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Phoenix wouldn't be turning this down because of value. They would turn it down because OEL is a foundational defenseman. As talented as Yandle is, he doesn't provide a bit of everything in the way OEL does.

Yandle is to their blue line group what Eberle is to Edmonton's forward group. Whereas OEL is to their blue line group what RNH is to Edmonton's group of forwards. He's the guy you would anchor a team to on the backend, in the same way that RNH is who you would anchor your forward group to.
Thank you for clearing that up for me. I don't watch both teams extremely closely however I try to. I never thought of it that way.... If you put it like that I agree then. OEL might be too more important to trade but i believe in the motto that if the price is right you should trade him. I mean no GM in their right mind should become emotionally attached to a player and not trade them for the better of the organization. There are exception to my "rule" such as Joe Sakic

Phenomenon13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 02:17 AM
  #99
Phenomenon13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the banks View Post
Disagree
Can you pelase elaborate?

Phenomenon13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 02:38 AM
  #100
XX
... Waiting
 
XX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 48th State
Country: United States
Posts: 27,237
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenon13 View Post
For example, A franchise goalie is more difficult to acquire than a franchise defenseman. Therefore Bernier or Markstrom > OEL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenon13 View Post
Can you pelase elaborate?


Homegrown goalies are rare. You are also overlooking the simple fact that you don't need a 'franchise' goalie to win. See Smith, Mike. OEL was a huge part of the Coyotes run and I think most GMs in the league would sit on him unless you offered some kind of crazy package. A straight-across trade doesn't do anything for the Coyotes. It arguably makes them worse, given OEL's role.

Surefire #1 Dmen are worth a lot. Ones as young as OEL? Even more.

XX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:16 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.