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Thread (V): Argos embarass Eskimos; Changes need to be made. Nichols seriously hurt.

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Old
11-17-2012, 10:35 PM
  #651
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An interesting article by Terry Jones: http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/11/1...ack-5-10-years

I think we all knew Reed was not supportive of the trade at the time, despite what that ******* was saying, but it is good to hear it from him. The book won't completely close until the Esks find a new high-caliber QB (please be Nichols!), but this is a start anyway...

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11-17-2012, 10:56 PM
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At this point in time, I don't have a preference what position the guy played as long as he can figure out how to count to 12.

BTW, as far as former QB's in the OC position are concerned, Dave Dickenson in Calgary seems to be doing okay. Scott Milanovich runs the Toronto offence. Marcus Brady, the OC of the Als is a former QB, and they have a nicely balanced offence.
I still think Calgary's offense is too pass-heavy. I've seen the Stamps blow more than one game (last year's playoff game in Edmonton to name one) because they only gave Cornish the ball 10 times. A back like that would be getting 20+ carries a game if it were up to me.

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11-17-2012, 11:02 PM
  #653
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An interesting article by Terry Jones: http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/11/1...ack-5-10-years

I think we all knew Reed was not supportive of the trade at the time, despite what that ******* was saying, but it is good to hear it from him. The book won't completely close until the Esks find a new high-caliber QB (please be Nichols!), but this is a start anyway...
Kavis Reed felt it was appropriate to start Joseph over Nichols in the playoffs. I don't want to hear one word out of him regarding poor choices with regards to QBs. Really discouraging that it's being speculated he could be coach, GM, or both going forward. Giving Kavis the keys to the kingdom, now THAT is something that would set the franchise back 5-10 years.

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11-18-2012, 12:28 AM
  #654
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Kavis Reed felt it was appropriate to start Joseph over Nichols in the playoffs. I don't want to hear one word out of him regarding poor choices with regards to QBs. Really discouraging that it's being speculated he could be coach, GM, or both going forward. Giving Kavis the keys to the kingdom, now THAT is something that would set the franchise back 5-10 years.
Yeah, seriously. What self serving bs. Kavis Reed now months after the fact telling us "oh its a misktake, here's what I said all along"

Sure boss, that and a $1.50 gets you a coffee. Especially since Kavis, if this was his feeling did literally nothing at the time about the move.
A Coach who then proceeded to single out Joseph, Jyles, Nichols as his QB's who then benched Nichols for nearly the entire season, benched Jyles for half of it, and went with his guy Joseph.

This being the coach talking about wanting to retain RR. I don't buy it.

I don't buy the angle that Ricky buys it either. look at the picture. Kavis Reed hugging RR and Ray looking off in the distance not even acknowledging Reed. The classic "you're dead to me now" stance. I saw that in the picture last week, I still see it.
Want some more pictures? Go back in this thread to some of the linked articles with pictures of Kavis Reed and Eric Tillman all smiles and laughing with each other. Yeah, again I don't buy this bs for a second. Reed was in agreement with this.

In addition to being a hopeless coach he's now a lying bag of ****.


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11-18-2012, 09:37 AM
  #655
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I still think Calgary's offense is too pass-heavy. I've seen the Stamps blow more than one game (last year's playoff game in Edmonton to name one) because they only gave Cornish the ball 10 times. A back like that would be getting 20+ carries a game if it were up to me.

We can all split hairs for any OC. I think you might be a little picky on this. Montreal has used former QB's as their OC's and they've done quite well. Milanovich is one of the brightest OC's out there. Last year, the Stamps played from behind nearly the entire playoff game last year, so going more heavily on the pass makes sense. I just want best man for the job.

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11-18-2012, 09:38 AM
  #656
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Yeah, seriously. What self serving bs. Kavis Reed now months after the fact telling us "oh its a misktake, here's what I said all along"

Sure boss, that and a $1.50 gets you a coffee. Especially since Kavis, if this was his feeling did literally nothing at the time about the move.
A Coach who then proceeded to single out Joseph, Jyles, Nichols as his QB's who then benched Nichols for nearly the entire season, benched Jyles for half of it, and went with his guy Joseph.

This being the coach talking about wanting to retain RR. I don't buy it.

I don't buy the angle that Ricky buys it either. look at the picture. Kavis Reed hugging RR and Ray looking off in the distance not even acknowledging Reed. The classic "you're dead to me now" stance. I saw that in the picture last week, I still see it.
Want some more pictures? Go back in this thread to some of the linked articles with pictures of Kavis Reed and Eric Tillman all smiles and laughing with each other. Yeah, again I don't buy this bs for a second. Reed was in agreement with this.

In addition to being a hopeless coach he's now a lying bag of ****.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, that one is worth 10,000. Ray hardly acknowledged Reed, and Reed looked a bit pathetic, grabbing on to the only lifeline he's ever had.

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11-18-2012, 10:30 AM
  #657
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Yeah, seriously. What self serving bs. Kavis Reed now months after the fact telling us "oh its a misktake, here's what I said all along"

Sure boss, that and a $1.50 gets you a coffee. Especially since Kavis, if this was his feeling did literally nothing at the time about the move.
A Coach who then proceeded to single out Joseph, Jyles, Nichols as his QB's who then benched Nichols for nearly the entire season, benched Jyles for half of it, and went with his guy Joseph.

This being the coach talking about wanting to retain RR. I don't buy it.

I don't buy the angle that Ricky buys it either. look at the picture. Kavis Reed hugging RR and Ray looking off in the distance not even acknowledging Reed. The classic "you're dead to me now" stance. I saw that in the picture last week, I still see it.
Want some more pictures? Go back in this thread to some of the linked articles with pictures of Kavis Reed and Eric Tillman all smiles and laughing with each other. Yeah, again I don't buy this bs for a second. Reed was in agreement with this.

In addition to being a hopeless coach he's now a lying bag of ****.
Of course it will be months after the fact when he says it was a mistake. When else is he suppose to do it? You can't undermine your GM, you smile and say his **** smells great. This is obvious...and it isn't the coaches job to "do something about the move".

There had been rumblings all along that Kavis was not happy at the move and that him and Tillman did not get along that well. Pictures in this newspaper mean nothing, especially when it is an un-emotional person like Ray in it, and with a head coach he only had for 1 year. This isn't like Peyton and Dungy or something... I also like how you think Reed has no character, despite everything we know about him. Reed is the last guy to lie in order to throw other people under the bus. If he says he did not like the move, I believe him.

Next wow, not only is Reed lying, but Ray is as well. When Ray says he thought Reed sounded like it wasn't his decision and he didn't agree with it, Ray was lying too! Oh ok, that sounds much more plausible than the truth. Like the moonlanding was just lies too.

All of a sudden you are blaming Reed for not playing Nichols most of the season? He is a young QB and they wanted to use guys with more experience, and you agreed with him almost all year. Weren't you the last guy on here to want to see Nichols? Not playing Nichols the last game was a clear mistake in judgement, but up until that point you could easily argue he handled the QB decently. Some would have wanted Nichols in during the playoff push, but for the first 2 games after saying Joseph was the starter, he played great.

You cheerleaded Jyles and Joseph, and now you are throwing Reed under the bus.

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11-18-2012, 11:09 AM
  #658
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Of course it will be months after the fact when he says it was a mistake. When else is he suppose to do it? You can't undermine your GM, you smile and say his **** smells great. This is obvious...and it isn't the coaches job to "do something about the move".

There had been rumblings all along that Kavis was not happy at the move and that him and Tillman did not get along that well. Pictures in this newspaper mean nothing, especially when it is an un-emotional person like Ray in it, and with a head coach he only had for 1 year. This isn't like Peyton and Dungy or something... I also like how you think Reed has no character, despite everything we know about him. Reed is the last guy to lie in order to throw other people under the bus. If he says he did not like the move, I believe him.

Next wow, not only is Reed lying, but Ray is as well. When Ray says he thought Reed sounded like it wasn't his decision and he didn't agree with it, Ray was lying too! Oh ok, that sounds much more plausible than the truth. Like the moonlanding was just lies too.

All of a sudden you are blaming Reed for not playing Nichols most of the season? He is a young QB and they wanted to use guys with more experience, and you agreed with him almost all year. Weren't you the last guy on here to want to see Nichols? Not playing Nichols the last game was a clear mistake in judgement, but up until that point you could easily argue he handled the QB decently. Some would have wanted Nichols in during the playoff push, but for the first 2 games after saying Joseph was the starter, he played great.

You cheerleaded Jyles and Joseph, and now you are throwing Reed under the bus.
Not sure what you're rambling about here. TJ has no direct quote from RR, makes it seem that way, and likely hasn't spoken to RR since the trade. As for Reed to say something like this several months after the trade is interesting at best. Looks like Rhodes/Reed could've used some balls.

If Reed felt really strongly about this he wouldve and could've challenged this. Just like Sather did with the Gretzky trade. Sather told Gretz he'd nix the deal if Wayne wanted. In the end Wayne didn't want to stay after what transpired.

Its specious timing for Reed to now say he was against the Ray trade all along.

I wasn't against the Ray trade, ever, I'll take my lumps with that.

As for Nichols I wasn't initially impressed with his play in his first game against Calgary. I wasn't that impressed with him in TC. I wasn't familiar with his game tbh and he wasn't showing me anything first hand.

My tune changed and I acknowledged as much as soon as Nichols started clicking. The only thing I recommended after that is that he not start the games but instead get to watch the 1st quarter then come in.

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11-18-2012, 11:16 AM
  #659
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Not sure what you're rambling about here. TJ has no direct quote from RR, makes it seem that way, and likely hasn't spoken to RR since the trade. As for Reed to say something like this several months after the trade is interesting at best. Looks like Rhodes/Reed could've used some balls.

If Reed felt really strongly about this he wouldve and could've challenged this. Just like Sather did with the Gretzky trade. Sather told Gretz he'd nix the deal if Wayne wanted. In the end Wayne didn't want to stay after what transpired.

Its specious timing for Reed to now say he was against the Ray trade all along.

I wasn't against the Ray trade, ever, I'll take my lumps with that.

As for Nichols I wasn't initially impressed with his play in his first game against Calgary. I wasn't that impressed with him in TC. I wasn't familiar with his game tbh and he wasn't showing me anything first hand.

My tune changed and I acknowledged as much as soon as Nichols started clicking. The only thing I recommended after that is that he not start the games but instead get to watch the 1st quarter then come in.
From the article:

Saturday Ray said he always kind of believed that was probably the way it went down.

“When I got the call from him, he did say something like ‘It wasn’t really my call.’ He didn’t say a lot, but I knew.”

Is Ray lying here?

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11-18-2012, 11:25 AM
  #660
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From the article:

Saturday Ray said he always kind of believed that was probably the way it went down.

When I got the call from him, he did say something like ‘It wasn’t really my call.’ He didn’t say a lot, but I knew.”

Is Ray lying here?
Ray stated "He (Reed) said something like" There isn't a direct exact quote in the whole piece which makes me think its revisionist in memory, and slant.

What is this saying other than nothing. Ray knew? Knew what? How did he know when Reed didn't say much?

Even if you're going to pretend this is something pay attention to the words quoted.

"it wasn't really my call" Which is different than saying something like "It wasn't my call" or Theres no way that was my call" etc. Trust me when you hear somebody say "It wasn't really my call" you can wonder what they did have to do with it. If that is Reeds actual quote its part acknowledgement, its hedging bets, its a carefully worded statement that means nothing.

Johnny stated: I didn't really want to kick my sister" Which means what?

Even if we're to believe the quote, or that TJ is quoting accurately its not saying much. Which RR actually acknowledges.

This must be slow news days for TJ. What a load of nothing.


Last edited by Replacement: 11-18-2012 at 11:37 AM.
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11-18-2012, 11:32 AM
  #661
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This is just Kavis covering his a$$ & quite frankly it stinks

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11-18-2012, 11:36 AM
  #662
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This is just Kavis covering his a$$ & quite frankly it stinks
Absolutely. Convenient now that Tillman is gone that Kavis is singing a different tune then he did all year about the QB position. Kavis Reed maintained all year the team would be fine, would still be competitive and was still expecting a winning team without Ray. Now we're to believe he was ardently stating it would set the Esks back 5-10 years?

He's lying one way or the other depending on what one wants to believe, At this point I'll defer to dismissing his statements from this point forward.

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11-18-2012, 11:39 AM
  #663
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Ray stated "He said something like" There isn't a direct exact quote in the whole piece which makes me think its revisionist in memory, and slant.

What is this saying other than nothing. Ray knew? Knew what? How did he know when Reed didn't say much?

Even if you're going to pretend this is something pay attention to the words quoted.

"it wasn't really my call" Which is different than saying something like "It wasn't my call" or Theres no way that was my call" etc. Trust me when you hear somebody say "It wasn't really my call" you can wonder what they did have to do with it. If that is Reeds actual quote its part acknowledgement, its hedging bets, its a carefully worded statement that means nothing.

Johnny stated: I didn't really want to kick my sister" Which means what?

Even if we're to believe the quote, or that TJ is quoting accurately its not saying much. Which RR actually acknowledges.

This must be slow news days for TJ. What a load of nothing.
???

Reed isn't going to phone up Ray and shout "This is ********!" to him...Reed is respectful of the guy who made the decision, once the decision is made. Obviously Reed hints at it like you are with someone and you don't need to say much to know what they mean, without having to blab your expanded feelings. This is 0% like your "Johnny" example. It simply shows that Ray could tell from their call that this was another one of Tillman's crazy ideas.

Why would Reed, who before joining the Eskimos as head coach made sure Ray was going to be on the team, want him gone a year later??

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11-18-2012, 11:41 AM
  #664
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Absolutely. Convenient now that Tillman is gone that Kavis is singing a different tune then he did all year about the QB position. Kavis Reed maintained all year the team would be fine, would still be competitive and was still expecting a winning team without Ray. Now we're to believe he was ardently stating it would set the Esks back 5-10 years?

He's lying one way or the other depending on what one wants to believe, At this point I'll defer to dismissing his statements from this point forward.
LOL You are seriously using his words during the season against him? Yeah, what you really expect is for the coach to come out and say the current QB's are crap, the team is going nowhere and that they stink.

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11-18-2012, 11:58 AM
  #665
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Plus if Kavis was so upset with the situation the honourable thing would have been to resign

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11-18-2012, 12:15 PM
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Plus if Kavis was so upset with the situation the honourable thing would have been to resign
If your boss at work made a decision you disagreed with, would you quit your job? Most people would suck it up try to move on despite the disagreement. People still need to work...

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11-18-2012, 12:16 PM
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If your boss at work made a decision you disagreed with, would you quit your job? Most people would suck it up try to move on despite the disagreement. People still need to work...
I just did after 5 years with the company

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11-18-2012, 12:18 PM
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Toronto looking like typical Toronto. 2 possession 2 turnovers. :/

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11-18-2012, 12:21 PM
  #669
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I just did after 5 years with the company
Yep sure you did. Regardless, it will take a lot for most people to resign their position in regular life nevermind when you are 1 of 8 head coaches, with a decent chance this chance won't come again for years, if ever.

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11-18-2012, 12:46 PM
  #670
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???

Reed isn't going to phone up Ray and shout "This is ********!" to him...Reed is respectful of the guy who made the decision, once the decision is made. Obviously Reed hints at it like you are with someone and you don't need to say much to know what they mean, without having to blab your expanded feelings. This is 0% like your "Johnny" example. It simply shows that Ray could tell from their call that this was another one of Tillman's crazy ideas.

Why would Reed, who before joining the Eskimos as head coach made sure Ray was going to be on the team, want him gone a year later??
You've made your own interpretation that some quotes that mean next to nothing are clear, concise and that they speak volumes. This is YOUR chosen determination and TJ's that are based on nothing. If you can't see that these quotes mean essentially nothing I won't dissuade you otherwise.

The last part you write seems as made up as the whole TJ piece.

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11-18-2012, 12:54 PM
  #671
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I just did after 5 years with the company
You are a model citizen and clearly your personal experience is directly relevant to the football world.

Kavis isn't going anywhere any time soon.He's got at least one more season on his contract and he will coach it.

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11-18-2012, 12:56 PM
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Argos embarrassing turnover on the 1. Haven't they heard of QB sneak up the middle?

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11-18-2012, 01:01 PM
  #673
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I just did after 5 years with the company
Cool, I did that too with my former employment of two years.

Does it have anything to do with Kavis Reed and football? Not really.

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11-18-2012, 01:02 PM
  #674
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You are a model citizen and clearly your personal experience is directly relevant to the football world.

Kavis isn't going anywhere any time soon.He's got at least one more season on his contract and he will coach it.
He asked I answered I know it has no relevance to this thread

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11-18-2012, 01:29 PM
  #675
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If your boss at work made a decision you disagreed with, would you quit your job? Most people would suck it up try to move on despite the disagreement. People still need to work...
Silly question given I already referenced the Sather situation. Sather, I guess you don't know DID put his job on the line and told Pocklington he would quit if Pock traded Wayne against Wayne Gretzkys will.

Pocklington relented. But at that point Wayne indicated it was too late.

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