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Old
11-18-2012, 03:13 PM
  #26
Blackhawkswincup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Tallon may have thought Crawford was a nice prospect and he didn't need to worry about goalies. Not that he used those picks wisely in other areas lol


But seriously - I'll be more than happy to take a Niemi-type signing by Stan.
Bowman has stocked the system well at LW and C

We shall see what becomes of his D/G prospects but all are too early to call

Guys like Danault/McNeill/Saad/etc are much closer to NHL (And were forecast as much closer)

Just saying the scorn for Bowman in relation to G depth in system is nonsense

His guys are still in Jr's/NCAA or are getting feet wet in ECHL

If we look back in 5 years and not a single of his G prospects works out then yes feel free to rage ,, But to do so when all the projects are light years away from NHL is absurd

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Old
11-18-2012, 03:17 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Bowman has stocked the system well at LW and C

We shall see what becomes of his D/G prospects but all are too early to call

Guys like Danault/McNeill/Saad/etc are much closer to NHL (And were forecast as much closer)

Just saying the scorn for Bowman in relation to G depth in system is nonsense

His guys are still in Jr's/NCAA or are getting feet wet in ECHL

If we look back in 5 years and not a single of his G prospects works out then yes feel free to rage ,, But to do so when all the projects are light years away from NHL is absurd
Bowman has had about 6 years worth of drafts in his 3 years - thanks to selling off the Stanley cup team. He should have a stocked system.

But I'm not raging at all towards him. I'm just saying I hope he finds a goaltender like Dale did. I am not confident the Hawks can win a cup again without an upgrade from Crawford.

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11-18-2012, 03:28 PM
  #28
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Just to note, Bowman gets five years to be judged but Shea is a bust the second he's drafted.

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Old
11-18-2012, 03:39 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Ya, right after Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook retire, one of them should be ready.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Yeah i agree with this. The draft a goalie late thing hasn't been working.
It hasn't been done in the past. Bowman started this way. I hope they keep up with this. Do it every year. Throw **** on the wall and see what sticks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
Just to note, Bowman gets five years to be judged but Shea is a bust the second he's drafted.
saw that and thought the same

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Old
11-18-2012, 04:00 PM
  #30
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Kent Simpson (Just left Jr's and is in ECHL)
Mac Carruth (Still in Jr's)
Johan Mattson (Playing in USHL due to OHL Euro restrictions)
Brandon Whitney (Playing in QMJHL)
Matt Tomkins (Playing in AJHL)

There is nothing to judge

Simpson , Carruth and Mattson are just 20 yrs old
Whitney/Tomkins are 18

He drafted goalies and they have to develop

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Old
11-18-2012, 04:11 PM
  #31
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Goalies have always been a crapshoot. For every Fleury and Barasso drafted in the first round there is a Dipietro. Hell even look at the World Juniors. Sure Lololongo and Price have starred in the tournament and went on to great NHL careers. Then you have your Trevor Kidds...Jamie Storrs, Justin Pogge and your Jimmy Waites.

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Old
11-18-2012, 04:12 PM
  #32
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People must remember that this is also the team that spends 25 minutes in the box every game. I'm not sure if the data is out there to find their ES SV%...

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Old
11-18-2012, 04:43 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Tallon may have thought Crawford was a nice prospect and he didn't need to worry about goalies. Not that he used those picks wisely in other areas lol


But seriously - I'll be more than happy to take a Niemi-type signing by Stan.
Parker Milner and Benjamin Conz are both high-profile undrafted free agents.

Just saying.

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Old
11-18-2012, 05:28 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
just draft a goalie every year in the 6th or 7th round and at some point, one of them will end up as NHL goalie.
1. There is no guarantee to that.

2. We don't need an NHL goalie, Crawford and Emery are NHL goalies, the Hawks need a legit #1 top 15 goalie who can help them win a Cup, not just an NHL goalie.

3. Even if it does pan out when? Like Hawkaholic said by the time one of those goalies is ready the Hawks could be a last place team after all the current roster is gone, hell some of us might be dead by the time a 6-7th rounder goalie pick finally becomes ready.

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Old
11-18-2012, 05:37 PM
  #35
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The Hawks need to hire a goalie specific scout or a new goalie coach or both because think to when the last time the Hawks drafted a goalie and he worked out well for the Hawks?

Seriously, the last 2 Hawks goalies to make a difference where Niemi, undrafted, Belfour, undrafted and their best draft pick, Hasek was traded. So who was the last Hawks goalie picked to make a difference for the Hawks?

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11-18-2012, 07:19 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
The Hawks need to hire a goalie specific scout or a new goalie coach or both because think to when the last time the Hawks drafted a goalie and he worked out well for the Hawks?

Seriously, the last 2 Hawks goalies to make a difference where Niemi, undrafted, Belfour, undrafted and their best draft pick, Hasek was traded. So who was the last Hawks goalie picked to make a difference for the Hawks?
Michael Leigthon ,, Guy was an MVP for Hawks in finals

Craig Anderson became a quality #1 in NHL ,, Hawks gave up on him too early (Who wouldn't look awful playing behind 03-04 and 05-06 Hawks?)

Crawford the jury is still out on ,, If he bounces back then Hawks will be in good spot (If he doesn't then he never will)

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Old
11-19-2012, 06:31 AM
  #37
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They just need to bring in enough goalies and in many cases, goalies just need a chance to make it in the NHL. There are good goalies in europe that never even got the chance to play in the NHL, those guys are good too

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Old
11-19-2012, 10:11 AM
  #38
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We need a top goalie prospect in the system, not 6th or 7th rounders. The chances you get lucky with them are far less than with a top goalie prospect. I'm sick of waiting, get someone with potential in here.

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Old
11-19-2012, 11:36 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
We need a top goalie prospect in the system, not 6th or 7th rounders. The chances you get lucky with them are far less than with a top goalie prospect. I'm sick of waiting, get someone with potential in here.
whitney was projected much higher than where we got him. and there's not always an obvious "top prospect" - there are guys that are ranked high but have problems. look at fucale - his save % isn't the greatest and he doesn't have impressive size. ... but he'll be ranked high.

i would NOT be happy if we drafted a goalie first round this year (ignoring the lockout out issues and just assuming we'd pick mid/late 1st).

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:12 AM
  #40
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we need a goalie prospect that looks like it has a chance to become a NHL #1 goalie, I agree.

We don't need to waste high picks (1st) to get them. Chances to get something out of a 1st round forward are much much higher than a goalie

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:49 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
whitney was projected much higher than where we got him. and there's not always an obvious "top prospect" - there are guys that are ranked high but have problems. look at fucale - his save % isn't the greatest and he doesn't have impressive size. ... but he'll be ranked high.

i would NOT be happy if we drafted a goalie first round this year (ignoring the lockout out issues and just assuming we'd pick mid/late 1st).
If I recall people on the draft day thread were hoping Stan would pick up Whitney with the 2nd rounder. Im glad he waited.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:18 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
we need a goalie prospect that looks like it has a chance to become a NHL #1 goalie, I agree.

We don't need to waste high picks (1st) to get them. Chances to get something out of a 1st round forward are much much higher than a goalie
We don't need a goalie who projects as a #1, we need a goalie who projects as an elite #1. With the way the team is being built, an avg goalie like Niemi won't do.

..and for those that are praising Whitney, he has been TERRIBLE this season in the Q. He isn't much better than Simpson or Carruth at this point.

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Old
11-20-2012, 01:28 PM
  #43
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There are of course other ways than drafting--trades,free agents --BUT there is a clear philosophical difference between the Hawks and many other NHL teams in WHEN during a draft the Hawks risk on taking a goalie---obviously they do not believe in risking in the first round when USUALLY the "consensus" best goalies of the draft crop are to be plucked. There are no guarantess and yes you can get lucky and draft a gem goalie in later rounds--BUT some other NHL teams do think that grabbing what they and the overall consensus thinks is an "A"" goalie prospect EARLY--that is in round one --before another team takes him off the board -is a good and proper stategy IF goaltending depth in their system is to be top -notch.

THUS we see right away in the HF feature articles on the main page about certain teams system pipelines that say with BOS --the goaltending depth is considered their top strength.

I think if you polled a consensus of the HF staff or other hovkey experts--GOALTENDING would be considered the weakest part of the Hawks pipeline currently...Nobody we have in the system is considered the hawks "goalie of the future' or is seen as a top-notch goalie candidate. Yes they may still develop--but except for Carruth nobody is postiong those .925% or better save %'s that appear in the lists of top goalie leaders for a league..
AS for Carruth--I do not think so much that it is that he's an older goalie dominating youngsters in the Dub--but that he is playing on a stacked Portland team and doesn't face many shots against per night on average..he's only faced 24.3 shots a game in the 10 games he's played in ..Even ERIC COMRIEwho turns 18 only in June and is the best first time draft eligible goalie from the Dub this draft faces 28.695 shots a game in the 23 games he's played so far...Some think he willbe the first goalie taken in the draft (his record so far :23GP 14-7-2 2.38GAA .920 save%

THE goalie I like from the O is JAKE PATTERSON (London Knights) --he was passed over last year in his first eligible draft --I have seen him several times over the past 2 seasons and thought in fact we should have drafted him last year-certainly above Whitney who has never lived up to his hype and whose save%'s suggest more sieve that any ability to stop pucks.. PATTERSON is 8-1-1 2.25GAA and .925 save% in the 10 Games he's played in so far...Last year he was 2-2-0 with a .929 save % in the 6GP he got into last year (I guess in 2 games he wasn't given credit for wins or losses) -but I liked what i saw of him in that limited action last year and so far i love what i see in his play this season do far..The few shots that get passedhim seem to be only change of direction deflections--he is square to shoters on clear shots and I've also seen atheletic highway robbery saves on dekes and moves at the crease-I just like the way he plays and his alertness...

I just watched SPENCER MARTIN considered early (Mississauga Steelheads) considered as the best first time eligible goalie from the O this year -he got off to a great start with gaudy save % stats and GAA and wins--but when I finally sat down to watch last Friday night him he let in 4 goals in just 17 shots before being yanked in a 7-2 Guelph win over Mississauga...could have been 1 bad game sure--BUT: I DID NOT LIKE THE STYLE I SAW FROM HIM--on all 4 goals he droped to his knees early and was beaten on a clear shot-he just looked very weak and with a lousy glove hand -I can't understand how he could be posting such good stats prior to this --maybe his team covers for him defensively most nights-or maybe I caight him on a rael off night... I will try to look at him a couple more times to be certain ,but my hunch STILL is that JAKE PATTERSON is the best "pick to click" we could take--though I have not seen COMRIE play yet (I did not stay up for his half a game stint in the last game of the series where he only let in 1 goal on 18 shots)

--however RIGHT NOW I'm thinking the top 2 NA goalie candidates for first round consideration SHOULD BE PATTERSON and COMRIE --though in what order I'm not sure except I'm very sure PATTERSON will be a great selection.I like the way he pays net --COMRIE,I'm going by what I read about him and his stats so far..


THE hyped "saviour" for Canadian goalies was supposed to be ZACH FUCALE from the Q--but so far his stats for his team are not good .. but then OVERALL the goalie stats in te ENTIRE Q league are really not that good..Not impressd ..

Too early to get a consensus picture on the eurogoalie candidates or if any could be risked on as early as round one..

Anyway-if I'm the Hawks scouts-I'd be watching PATTERSON and COMRIE very closely the rest of the season ..

In 3rd place in my NA goalie evaluation ,I did see EAMON MCADAM (Waterloo,USHL) who backstopped USA to Gold at the World JR A Challenge (2.18 GAA and .927 save % in 4GP) and i liked his style too --I think he will at least go in round 2 but may rise into a late round one selection if he continues to shine throughout the rest of this season.

So to me there are at least 3 worthy NA goalie candidates to focus the radar on for possible round one consideration ..At least at this stage of the season.

It is suposed to be a deep crop of Finnish goalies for the draft 4-5 good ones --but whether any merit first rounder consideration at this point is doubtful... The russians showed us IGOR USTINSKY who had a good game in his victory over the o in game 3--but the 18 year old (June'94 birth) was another '94 passed over last year and his other problem is that he is only 5'11 --probaly takes him out as a first round risk ...
They do have some intriguing BIG goalies attracting attention:

IVAN NALIMOV 6'3 190 SKA 1946 St. Petersberg (MHL) 25GP 2/34 GAA .927 save%
(he played 20 games for them last season with a 2.24 GAA and .920 save%) --he too was passed over in last year's draft 2 good seasons in a row may attract more attention from scouts now..compare him to USTINSKY who has a 2.63GAA .914 save% in 26 games so far for his MHL team (Stalnie Lisi Magnitogorsk) and who was 2.41 .926 for a different MHL team last season in 25GP...


ANDREI FILONENKO 6'5 220 --just 17--(May 5,1995) 2.75 .911 in 10GP for his MHL team CSKA Moscow and as a 16 year old last year he was 1.79 gAA and .932 in 29 GP and 3.21 .908 in 16 playoff games for them...
Unless they pick him for their U-18 squad for the World U-18's and if so unless he shines there,he probably won't be risked in the erly rounds..

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Old
11-20-2012, 02:08 PM
  #44
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We've got the big goalies covered, next couple we get need to be really athletic.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:45 AM
  #45
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Quote:
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We've got the big goalies covered, next couple we get need to be really athletic.
Wasn't everybody ******** their pants over how Whitney was the best of both worlds?

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Old
11-21-2012, 06:21 AM
  #46
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we need luck... with goalies it's always about luck and chances and playing time

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11-21-2012, 07:11 AM
  #47
Sir Psycho T
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
we need luck... with goalies it's always about luck and chances and playing time
No it's not just luck. How come in Montreal they have always been able to find and develope top goalies? Plante, Dryden, Roy, Theodore (laugh but he won a Hart Trophy), Price. Hell our best goalie ever started his career where?

Meanwhile in Chicago their last goalie drafted to do anything was Hasek? Anderson maybe. The Hawks need to be able to get scouts, coaches or both who specialize in goalies so for the first time since, Belfour, the Hawks can draft or develop a top level NHL goalie and not anymore also rans.

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11-21-2012, 09:57 AM
  #48
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Wasn't everybody ******** their pants over how Whitney was the best of both worlds?
Well, I do believe that Whitney is that guy, yes, but he is raw and will take time. I am pretty high on him but I don't think we should stop now. As much as I like him, who the hell knows if he will become a good NHL starter or not.

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:11 AM
  #49
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Whitney won;t be ready for another 5+ years, more than likely. By then, Hossa, Sharp, Keith and likely Seabrook will be all well past their prime.

We need a top goalie prospect who is ready to jump in in the next 2 or so years. Whether that's a trade, or finding one overseas, it needs to be done.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:36 PM
  #50
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we don't need a quality prospect in this case or to what you are referring. We NEED a proven Starter that can play right now and for the next 5 years

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