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General UFC/MMA/boxing discussion - Bute vs. Pascal?

View Poll Results: Who wins a fight between Lucian Bute and Jean Pascal ?
Lucian Bute 9 33.33%
Jean Pascal 17 62.96%
Draw 1 3.70%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-18-2012, 12:27 PM
  #201
ChoseLa
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Losing muscle takes time, a lot of time. You can lose some strength rather quickly (couple of weeks), but that's if you become inactive, which is not something you do when you train for a fight.
Anderson Silva does not go down to the limit of water weight loss before his weigh ins at 185. He doesn't even look ripped. He could lose an extra 6lbs I'm pretty sure of it.
Even if he doesn't look ripped it doesn't mean he didn't went to his limits, everybody's metabolism is different, and to dominate like he does he has to comit to everything and i'm pretty sure he does that. But it's true that he could loose a bit more just by lowering his fat % or go even further in desyadration, could, we don't know.

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11-18-2012, 12:39 PM
  #202
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Great fight, but I really don't want to see GSP fight Anderson... I see no way he can win.

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11-18-2012, 12:47 PM
  #203
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No he wouldn't. You're talking about 6 lbs less than his regular weight class. He would lose water weight, that's it.
I don't think you understand how the fighters operate. If Silva is fighting at 185 he's already shedding a ton of water weight for weigh ins. By the time he actually fights he's easily over 190.


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GSP got caught versus Hughes in his early career, then Serra, his face has taken beatings before from various opponents, yesterday he got caught by Condit.
Yes... GSP got caught 8 years ago against Hughes, 5 years ago against Serra and then once in a fight he dominated last night...

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Comparing Condit's striking to Silva's is quite insulting. Silva is the most accurate striker in the game. He has devastating KO power from his hands, kicks, knees, and throws kicks/moves that are unique to his style and unpredictable. Jones is the only fighter that comes close to being comparable, but he has more to prove before being put on the same level as Silva.
I never compared Condit's striking to Silva's...

To simply state "Silva is the most accurate striker in the game" while conveniently ignoring the fact that GSP has the best take downs in the game and the argument could definitely be made the best wrestling in the game is foolishness. Lets focus on one guys strengths and ignore the other guys strengths...

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GSP would obviously want to wrestle Silva down and keep him there, but that's easier said then done.
GSP loses that fight. He only had 1 way to win this fight, flawless wrestling. So, I wouldn't bet on GSP at all.
Trying to knock out a guy that can take you down at will is a lot easier said than done too.

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Maybe him ''showboating'' doesn't make him better, but it sure makes him more impressive, and I'm sure, more intimidating to his opponents.
No it doesn't, it makes him look like a moron.

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11-18-2012, 01:51 PM
  #204
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Silva won't have any weight advantage... they always fight at the same weight. You'd have to assume GSP gaining more muscle for a fight would result in him being stronger than Silva losing muscle to lose weight. The reach Silva would clearly have but GSP is in a class of his own wrestling wise and Sonnen handed Silva his ass with his wrestling. GSP could most definitely beat Silva using his wrestling.. no fighter in the world has been able to even remotely hindered GSP taking them down... Silva would be no different.
1st - they don't fight at the same weight, the weigh-in at the same weight, Silva would without a doubt be the heavier guy on fight night. Plus when someone is fighting in a more natural weight, they are less likely to give up strength, speed or any other variable from simply making weight.

2nd - Sonnen is a world class wrestler. It's doubtful GSP is a better wrestler, Sonnen just isn't good at much else.

3rd - Sonnen was on the juice for the first fight and silva was fighting hurt

4th - the rematch, Silva made Sonnen look silly

5th - GSP would have no chance at beating Silva.

The underrating of the best fighter in the world has gotten crazy around certain parts.


Last edited by habsfanatics: 11-18-2012 at 01:59 PM.
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Old
11-18-2012, 01:55 PM
  #205
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Yea? And how exactly do you know those hidden fighters would actually be better? You don't. Maybe there are some better fighters, but we have no clue of that's actually true. So I won't spend much time talking about them.





I still don't understand how people would bet against Silva so easily. The guy dominates his opponents so easily, and does things never done before. I mean, the guy will purposely back up onto the cage, drop his gloves, and practice avoiding punches, once he gets bored from that, he comes forward and knocks out his opponent with a body shot. This in a weight class above his versus a guy that had never been knocked down and who we know is very resistant.
Not to mention how he destroyed all his opponents in his weight class.

Jones hasn't impressed me in his last two fights. Going to distance versus Evans, and 4 rounds against Belfort, a guy Silva KOd with a front kick.

To count out Silva would be quite foolish. He's proven he can dominate any kind of fighter, even in higher weight class. So to say you'd bet against him every day of the week if it'd be versus Jones, as if it's a sure bet, is foolish imo. At the very least, it's 50-50, but I'd put money on Silva.



Silva would not lose muscle. Silva would cut his weight, mostly water, before the weigh ins, and then put it back on.
Sonnen took Silva down, but never hurt him, and yet he still got submitted. In the rematch, Sonnen got beat up.
People look at Silva's fight versus Sonnen and say ''ahh, he almost lost, his wrestling ain't good'', I look at it and think this guy is unbeatable. Despite being on his back for most of his fight, he waits to the last second to pull out a submission. Many people think Silva was toying a bit with Sonnen, just like he does standing up and lets fighters punch him in the face. Never know with him.
But if it really was all dominance by Sonnen and nothing more than a simple mistake, then you'd figure he'll dominate again in rematch and won't make the same mistake. Nope, he gets his ass KOd.
GSP could get Silva down, I'm sure of it, but going through Silva's pin point punches would hurt him and probably KO him.
No doubt Silva would win. None.

Your knowledge of mma is great kriss. I know what we had a little debate earlier about dana white ect, but you know what you're talking about.

I would take that bet of Silva vs Jones and my money would be on AS too.

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Old
11-18-2012, 02:09 PM
  #206
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I don't think you understand how the fighters operate. If Silva is fighting at 185 he's already shedding a ton of water weight for weigh ins. By the time he actually fights he's easily over 190.
Actually I do know how they operate. I also know how the body operates as I'm a fitness coach. Anderson Silva would not lose muscles. Stop trying to argue this point, it simply isn't correct.
And stop pretending to know just how much weight A.Silva is shedding for his regular fights. Every fighter is naturally heavier than when they come weigh in, how much heavier isn't known really.
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Yes... GSP got caught 8 years ago against Hughes, 5 years ago against Serra and then once in a fight he dominated last night...
Not to mention the beatings his face has taken in multiple other fights. If those guys were able to damage GSP's face (without knocking him out), then I don't see why A.Silva wouldn't get to land his punches. His punches are more precise and lethal though, so ya GSP would have a much harder time.

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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
I never compared Condit's striking to Silva's...

To simply state "Silva is the most accurate striker in the game" while conveniently ignoring the fact that GSP has the best take downs in the game and the argument could definitely be made the best wrestling in the game is foolishness. Lets focus on one guys strengths and ignore the other guys strengths...
You said Condit is a great stand up fighter and despite this GSP was still able to control the fight standing up. That seems like you're trying to hint that GSP would be able to hold his own versus Silva standing up because Condit was (and so, compare Condit to Silva). That's ridiculous.

Who cares if GSP has the best take downs? You still have to work to get your opponent down, and you will still be fighting standing up, and while on the floor, you can get submitted.

Really, I don't know what you're arguing about. GSP has one way to win, that's it. Silva has a lot more options to him.

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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Trying to knock out a guy that can take you down at will is a lot easier said than done too.
You don't need to knock him down. You just have to inflict enough damage so that he starts shooting less and becomes more hesitant, which leads to frustration and can make you lose focus.
GSP also comes in as a huge WW. We've never seen how he'd do versus bigger opponents. Silva on the other hand, we know can dominate bigger opponents, so I'm pretty darn sure he could do the same with smaller guys.
This would be a very bad match up for GSP. It's very one sided.
Let him fight Hendricks instead. Silva can go beat Jones.

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No it doesn't, it makes him look like a moron.
Not to me. Even according to Dana White, A.Silva is the best fighter in the world, all sports combined (and possibly of all time). If he wants to show boat, he earned the right to do so. I don't think he looks like a moron at all. Cocky perhaps, but not moronic. His record speaks for itself anyways.

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Old
11-18-2012, 02:28 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Actually I do know how they operate. I also know how the body operates as I'm a fitness coach. Anderson Silva would not lose muscles. Stop trying to argue this point, it simply isn't correct.
And stop pretending to know just how much weight A.Silva is shedding for his regular fights. Every fighter is naturally heavier than when they come weigh in, how much heavier isn't known really.
I'm not pretending to know anything. It is fact that Silva is a huge middleweight and that he walks around over 205 which is why he moves up to LHW with ease.

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Not to mention the beatings his face has taken in multiple other fights. If those guys were able to damage GSP's face (without knocking him out), then I don't see why A.Silva wouldn't get to land his punches. His punches are more precise and lethal though, so ya GSP would have a much harder time.
The beatings his face has taken? I recall his eye being scratched against Shields and Condit doing damage... that's about it since his last loss 5 years ago. I agree GSP would have a much harder time.. that much is obvious. The entire point of this fight is giving these guys something to actual worry about.

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You said Condit is a great stand up fighter and despite this GSP was still able to control the fight standing up. That seems like you're trying to hint that GSP would be able to hold his own versus Silva standing up because Condit was (and so, compare Condit to Silva). That's ridiculous.
I wasn't hinting at anything.. you chose to believe I was saying something I never said. In the same sentence I said clearly GSP wouldn't want to stand with Silva.

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Who cares if GSP has the best take downs? You still have to work to get your opponent down, and you will still be fighting standing up, and while on the floor, you can get submitted.
Lol who cares? Are you kidding me? If GSP is able to take Silva down with the same ease he has taken everyone else down Silva has 0 chance. Absolutely no chance. That's what makes the fight intriguing.

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Really, I don't know what you're arguing about. GSP has one way to win, that's it. Silva has a lot more options to him.
Not true at all. If anything Silva has 1 way to win... knockout. He isn't going to beat GSP in any aspect on the ground.

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You don't need to knock him down. You just have to inflict enough damage so that he starts shooting less and becomes more hesitant, which leads to frustration and can make you lose focus.
GSP also comes in as a huge WW. We've never seen how he'd do versus bigger opponents. Silva on the other hand, we know can dominate bigger opponents, so I'm pretty darn sure he could do the same with smaller guys.
This leads back to how easily GSP can take Silva down. If he's struggling to take him down he isn't going to win. It's that simple.

As for GSP being big.. yes he is big. Condit had several inches on him though so we have in fact seen him fight bigger opponents and he still man handled him.

We haven't seen Silva had to deal with anyone like GSP. Sonnen is the closest comparison and he damn near beat Silva despite being a weaker (albeit still very good) wrestler than GSP.

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This would be a very bad match up for GSP. It's very one sided.
Let him fight Hendricks instead. Silva can go beat Jones.
Disagree entirely. Based on how you've displayed your feelings on MMA as a whole it doesn't surprise me you'd think the flashy guy is far better than the guy who is technical though.

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Not to me. Even according to Dana White, A.Silva is the best fighter in the world, all sports combined (and possibly of all time). If he wants to show boat, he earned the right to do so. I don't think he looks like a moron at all. Cocky perhaps, but not moronic. His record speaks for itself anyways.
Yeah... and that would change if he lost to GSP. So far neither of them have had any real competition at their respective weight divisions for years now.

Nobody has the right to show boat. Joe Montana never show boated. Wayne Gretzky never show boated. Micheal Jordan learned this. Show boating goes against everything the sport of MMA represents. It's disgusting really. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he's a great fighter.. it changes nothing whether he's 20-0 or 0-20. It's all the same.

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Old
11-18-2012, 03:20 PM
  #208
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considering silvas age i dont think we will ever know whether or not he is or was the greatest fighter of any sport of all time. i mean some of the old boxers had over 170 wins and 100 knock outs and fought for over 20 years.. i dont think you can put him in the same class as louis, ali, and robinson (boxers) for that reason.

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11-18-2012, 03:21 PM
  #209
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
I'm not pretending to know anything. It is fact that Silva is a huge middleweight and that he walks around over 205 which is why he moves up to LHW with ease.
Actually A.S used to walk around 225, at least that's pre-Irvin fight. Now who knows exactly, but if the can shed down to 185, he can drop a few more pounds.
Going to 170 would be impossible imo.
Bottom line is, if A.S were to lose muscle, he wouldn't go through with the cut. Cutting weight is not about losing muscles, that would be counterproductive.
If he agrees to 179, then that'll be water loss, not muscles. Case closed.

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The beatings his face has taken? I recall his eye being scratched against Shields and Condit doing damage... that's about it since his last loss 5 years ago. I agree GSP would have a much harder time.. that much is obvious. The entire point of this fight is giving these guys something to actual worry about.
Ya, and BJ Penn also, point is, the guy can get hit, and often. Not something you want when you're facing A.Silva.

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I wasn't hinting at anything.. you chose to believe I was saying something I never said. In the same sentence I said clearly GSP wouldn't want to stand with Silva.
Right, you said he won't bother standing up with A.Silva, not that he wouldn't want too. Not quite the same, but irrelevant anyways.
GSP's defense has never really impressed me when he goes for takedowns, and his stand up isn't very good. He relies on his speed when he fights standing up, but Silva's quicker, has a bigger reach and is more precise.
Shooting for the takedowns won't be a given. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get stuffed, and more hesitant.

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Lol who cares? Are you kidding me? If GSP is able to take Silva down with the same ease he has taken everyone else down Silva has 0 chance. Absolutely no chance. That's what makes the fight intriguing.
What in god's name are you talking about. Even off his back, Silva can submit opponents. Oh but right, you're just relying on GSP not making a mistake...great point I must say.
GSP has to be flawless in order to win. It's not just about taking Silva down. It's about taking him down and keeping him there, and not getting caught. If he can't keep him on the ground, it's bad news for GSP.

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Not true at all. If anything Silva has 1 way to win... knockout. He isn't going to beat GSP in any aspect on the ground.
Seriously, it's becoming clearer and clearer that you don't know much about A.Silva.
Either that or you don't understand the sport all that well, maybe a new fan of it.
I don't know anybody who knows this sport well that would say that.
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This leads back to how easily GSP can take Silva down. If he's struggling to take him down he isn't going to win. It's that simple.

As for GSP being big.. yes he is big. Condit had several inches on him though so we have in fact seen him fight bigger opponents and he still man handled him.

We haven't seen Silva had to deal with anyone like GSP. Sonnen is the closest comparison and he damn near beat Silva despite being a weaker (albeit still very good) wrestler than GSP.
No it's not that simple. Seriously dude...Give it a rest.
Heck, you even said it, Sonnen took Silva down all the time, and yet he still lost. If that's not a big enough sign for you to understand that it's not just about taking him down, then I don't know what is.

Silva can win in any position. On his feet, on the ground on top or on the bottom. You never count him out and you never say ''Silva has 0''. That's just ridiculous.
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Disagree entirely. Based on how you've displayed your feelings on MMA as a whole it doesn't surprise me you'd think the flashy guy is far better than the guy who is technical though.
Euhhh, you clearly don't know anything about my stand on MMA.

Find it rather offensive actually seeing how I've been following the sport practically since UFC 1.
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Yeah... and that would change if he lost to GSP. So far neither of them have had any real competition at their respective weight divisions for years now.

Nobody has the right to show boat. Joe Montana never show boated. Wayne Gretzky never show boated. Micheal Jordan learned this. Show boating goes against everything the sport of MMA represents. It's disgusting really. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he's a great fighter.. it changes nothing whether he's 20-0 or 0-20. It's all the same.
You think Joe Montana or Wayne Gretzky never talked trash on the ice or field?
Who cares about show boating. But yes, if you show boat when you're 0-20, you're an idiot. If you do it at 20-0, you're cocky. Difference.
In any event, really, you need to relax if you get upset over show boating. The guy easily destroys his opponents (unlike GSP btw), if he wants a little more challenge during a fight so it can spark him up, so be it.
As I said in a previous post, his record speaks for itself anyways.

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11-18-2012, 03:27 PM
  #210
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Your knowledge of mma is great kriss. I know what we had a little debate earlier about dana white ect, but you know what you're talking about.

I would take that bet of Silva vs Jones and my money would be on AS too.
Thanks buddy! And yea, that would be a smart bet

Not that I don't think Jones has a chance, he does, but he's not as proven and as I said, I wasn't overly impressed with his previous two fights.

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considering silvas age i dont think we will ever know whether or not he is or was the greatest fighter of any sport of all time. i mean some of the old boxers had over 170 wins and 100 knock outs and fought for over 20 years.. i dont think you can put him in the same class as louis, ali, and robinson (boxers) for that reason.
Well, I don't think you can compare them, just like you can't compare Maurice Richard to Mario Lemieux.
MMA is also a different sport entirely, but the dominance A.Silva has over his opponents is quite remarkable.

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11-18-2012, 03:31 PM
  #211
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Great fight, but I really don't want to see GSP fight Anderson... I see no way he can win.
The only time Silva has lost a round in the past few years has been against wrestlers. Henderson, Sonnen, Marquart all had workable strategies against Silva, but simply couldn't execute beyond one round. They all made one mistake, and that was that.

Where GSP can win is by the fact that he's proven he's capable of a perfect fight. If there's one person who can use his wrestling to control Silva, while avoiding getting picked apart on the feet, it's GSP.

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11-18-2012, 03:40 PM
  #212
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The only time Silva has lost a round in the past few years has been against wrestlers. Henderson, Sonnen, Marquart all had workable strategies against Silva, but simply couldn't execute beyond one round. They all made one mistake, and that was that.

Where GSP can win is by the fact that he's proven he's capable of a perfect fight. If there's one person who can use his wrestling to control Silva, while avoiding getting picked apart on the feet, it's GSP.
Not so sure. GSP has made mistakes in the past, just that his opponents couldn't capitalize on them. He won't have that luxury versus Silva.
He also never dealt with guys that are as big as A.Silva. GSP got picked apart on his feet by BJ Penn, and he didn't really improve in that domain all that much. He'll have a very tough time getting through Silva's punches in order to go for a shoot.
I'm sure he'll be able to take him though, but I don't think he'll have the easy time many seem to think he'll have. I also don't think he'll easily keep him on the ground, nor does it make him free of danger.

All in all, he will lose.

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11-18-2012, 03:41 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Actually A.S used to walk around 225, at least that's pre-Irvin fight. Now who knows exactly, but if the can shed down to 185, he can drop a few more pounds.
Going to 170 would be impossible imo.
Bottom line is, if A.S were to lose muscle, he wouldn't go through with the cut. Cutting weight is not about losing muscles, that would be counterproductive.
If he agrees to 179, then that'll be water loss, not muscles. Case closed.
Lol how much water do you think is in Silva's body? If he cuts to 185 as is how can he possibly lost even more water weight? He has to drop actual weight and there isn't enough fat on him to do it without losing muscle mass.

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Ya, and BJ Penn also, point is, the guy can get hit, and often. Not something you want when you're facing A.Silva.
And yet he has dominated... I'm not even sure the last time GSP has lost a round actually... in every single fight for 5 years.

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Right, you said he won't bother standing up with A.Silva, not that he wouldn't want too. Not quite the same, but irrelevant anyways.
GSP's defense has never really impressed me when he goes for takedowns, and his stand up isn't very good. He relies on his speed when he fights standing up, but Silva's quicker, has a bigger reach and is more precise.
Shooting for the takedowns won't be a given. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get stuffed, and more hesitant.
How can you say with any certainty that Silva is quicker? Generally speaking the lower the weight class the quicker the fighters get and nobody at WW is even close to GSP's speed. GSP doesn't have to be aggressive... he's a tremendous counter attacker.

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What in god's name are you talking about. Even off his back, Silva can submit opponents. Oh but right, you're just relying on GSP not making a mistake...great point I must say.
GSP has to be flawless in order to win. It's not just about taking Silva down. It's about taking him down and keeping him there, and not getting caught. If he can't keep him on the ground, it's bad news for GSP.
GSP is the best in the business on the ground... Silva is not. You can believe that Silva was "toying" with Sonnen in the first fight but the fact is he got lucky that Sonnen left himself vulnerable and shouldn't have won that fight.

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Seriously, it's becoming clearer and clearer that you don't know much about A.Silva.
Either that or you don't understand the sport all that well, maybe a new fan of it.
I don't know anybody who knows this sport well that would say that.
You also believe a fighter taunting other fighters somehow makes them more badass so really your opinion is irrelevant.

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No it's not that simple. Seriously dude...Give it a rest.
Heck, you even said it, Sonnen took Silva down all the time, and yet he still lost. If that's not a big enough sign for you to understand that it's not just about taking him down, then I don't know what is.
Yeah it really is that simple. You want to give all this respect to Silva and flip out when somebody compared Condit to him (even though nobody did) and yet you're sitting there comparing Sonnen to GSP... they aren't even on the same level.

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Silva can win in any position. On his feet, on the ground on top or on the bottom. You never count him out and you never say ''Silva has 0''. That's just ridiculous.
You never say that about GSP either and yet there you are saying it.

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Euhhh, you clearly don't know anything about my stand on MMA.

Find it rather offensive actually seeing how I've been following the sport practically since UFC 1.
Oh it's quite apparent for everyone to see.

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You think Joe Montana or Wayne Gretzky never talked trash on the ice or field?
No, but that's not even comparable. Silva can talk all the trash he wants pre-fight like nearly every other fighter.

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Who cares about show boating. But yes, if you show boat when you're 0-20, you're an idiot. If you do it at 20-0, you're cocky. Difference.
No there's really not. It's retarded any way you do it, regardless of the circumstances.

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In any event, really, you need to relax if you get upset over show boating. The guy easily destroys his opponents (unlike GSP btw), if he wants a little more challenge during a fight so it can spark him up, so be it.
As I said in a previous post, his record speaks for itself anyways.
Not unlike GSP actually. When you win damn near every round (if not every round) for 5 years, you're destroying your opponents.

GSP's record speaks for itself.

It just goes on and on but at the end of the day you're ignoring it for one guy and praising it for the other simply because one is flashy and other isn't.

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11-18-2012, 04:36 PM
  #214
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Not so sure. GSP has made mistakes in the past, just that his opponents couldn't capitalize on them. He won't have that luxury versus Silva.
Of course he has. That's not what I said. I said he has had perfect fights before. And he has.

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He also never dealt with guys that are as big as A.Silva. GSP got picked apart on his feet by BJ Penn, and he didn't really improve in that domain all that much. He'll have a very tough time getting through Silva's punches in order to go for a shoot.
"Picked apart" he was not. It's been some time since that fight, but BJ landing a few combos is not being picked apart. By the end of that fight, GSP was parrying BJ's jab with a shot.

Also, even if Silva is bigger, I would put money on GSP being considerably stronger.

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I'm sure he'll be able to take him though, but I don't think he'll have the easy time many seem to think he'll have. I also don't think he'll easily keep him on the ground, nor does it make him free of danger.
Nowhere did I say that he'd have an easy time, but if there's someone who can take Silva down, keep him there, and not get triangled in the process, it is GSP.

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All in all, he will lose.
I wouldn't be surprised if he did. But I've seen all this "x is invincible" crap before in MMA. It's never true. And the person who proves it is always someone who "didn't have a chance," yet had every skill necessary, the drive, and the ability to work a game-plan.

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11-18-2012, 04:38 PM
  #215
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"Lol how much water do you think is in Silva's body?"

not sure if serious?

Silva has 155-165 pounds of water in his body

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11-18-2012, 04:50 PM
  #216
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Honestly I see a lot of fanboys here saying things like they know everything about MMA and oh GSP will never be able to win against Silva, Silva is greatest of all-time and etc. But the way I see things is that Anderson's opponnents vs GSP's opponnents, that GSP has fought some much bigger names and won. And after almost dominating Condit who dominated Diaz I think that there's just no worthy fighters left for GSP to fight except maybe Kampmann.

GSP has already put Matt Hughes KO of course that was 6 years ago, but I believe he is much stronger now plus the experience he gained.

People just see the obvious... oh Silva has put KO all of his 4 last opponents GSP is boring and only wins decisions. But GSP makes almost no mistakes he soundly beats every opponents he fights and avoids being in tough spots. Plus he fights the very best challengers in MMA.

Are the best fighters in light heavyweight or in welterweight? I think welterweight has more mentally talented strikers. And this is why I think GSP stands a good chance to beat Silva.

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11-18-2012, 05:13 PM
  #217
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The only time Silva has lost a round in the past few years has been against wrestlers. Henderson, Sonnen, Marquart all had workable strategies against Silva, but simply couldn't execute beyond one round. They all made one mistake, and that was that.

Where GSP can win is by the fact that he's proven he's capable of a perfect fight. If there's one person who can use his wrestling to control Silva, while avoiding getting picked apart on the feet, it's GSP.
Listen, I love GSP, he stands a puncher's chance against Anderson, and that's it. Anderson is far superior on the ground, striking, kicks, size, reach... it's a bad matchup all the way around.

...and please, that Sonnen moment where he was winning the fight... that didn't end well in that matchup, and did you see how Anderson adjusted for the rematch? Sonnen wasn't even in it...

If it was the final fight for GSP, I would understand it, make a massive amount of cash and hang it up.. but ... playing the angle that it's a 'Good Matchup' is just silly, because it isn't .. nor will it ever will be.

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11-18-2012, 05:23 PM
  #218
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^ Over the course of Anderson's career he's shown he is the weakest against fighters who are good wrestlers, and GSP is supposed to be elite when it comes to that.

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11-18-2012, 05:25 PM
  #219
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Hughes was a submission with 1 second left in the round.

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11-18-2012, 05:46 PM
  #220
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Honestly I see a lot of fanboys here saying things like they know everything about MMA and oh GSP will never be able to win against Silva, Silva is greatest of all-time and etc. But the way I see things is that Anderson's opponnents vs GSP's opponnents, that GSP has fought some much bigger names and won. And after almost dominating Condit who dominated Diaz I think that there's just no worthy fighters left for GSP to fight except maybe Kampmann.

GSP has already put Matt Hughes KO of course that was 6 years ago, but I believe he is much stronger now plus the experience he gained.

People just see the obvious... oh Silva has put KO all of his 4 last opponents GSP is boring and only wins decisions. But GSP makes almost no mistakes he soundly beats every opponents he fights and avoids being in tough spots. Plus he fights the very best challengers in MMA.

Are the best fighters in light heavyweight or in welterweight? I think welterweight has more mentally talented strikers. And this is why I think GSP stands a good chance to beat Silva.
I'm far from being a fan boy, I love both these fighters because of their talent, but I couldn't care who wins. If you think I base my decision because Silva KOs his opponents whereas GSP takes them 5 to rounds, you're greatly mistaken.

My decision is simple. Silva has better striking in every sense of the word, faster, more powerful, more accurate. He is bigger than GSP, likewise for his reach, he is dangerous both on top and on the bottom when on the ground.

I already had discussions about how Matt Hughes was probably one of the most overrated champions in the UFC, as well as Chuck Liddell. Knocking him down means very little. GSP doesn't have KO power.

It's pretty obvious that Silva goes into this fight with the upper hand, by a far margin.

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^ Over the course of Anderson's career he's shown he is the weakest against fighters who are good wrestlers, and GSP is supposed to be elite when it comes to that.
And yet he's beaten them all.

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11-18-2012, 05:51 PM
  #221
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Of course he has. That's not what I said. I said he has had perfect fights before. And he has.
I don't think he has. But that depends on your definition of perfect.

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"Picked apart" he was not. It's been some time since that fight, but BJ landing a few combos is not being picked apart. By the end of that fight, GSP was parrying BJ's jab with a shot.

Also, even if Silva is bigger, I would put money on GSP being considerably stronger.
That's great, when it's BJ. Good luck to GSP if he does the same versus Silva. One punch from Silva=/=1 punch from BJ.

And how exactly do you think GSP is stronger?? Is it all the KOs he's inflicted that make you think that??

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Nowhere did I say that he'd have an easy time, but if there's someone who can take Silva down, keep him there, and not get triangled in the process, it is GSP.
Sure, maybe. Don't bet on it though.
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I wouldn't be surprised if he did. But I've seen all this "x is invincible" crap before in MMA. It's never true. And the person who proves it is always someone who "didn't have a chance," yet had every skill necessary, the drive, and the ability to work a game-plan.
You're talking about two champions that dominate their respective division. They both stand a chance. There's a difference between some marketing BS and A.Silva, I hope you can see it otherwise there's no point in further discussing this.

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11-18-2012, 05:58 PM
  #222
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I'm far from being a fan boy, I love both these fighters because of their talent, but I couldn't care who wins. If you think I base my decision because Silva KOs his opponents whereas GSP takes them 5 to rounds, you're greatly mistaken.

My decision is simple. Silva has better striking in every sense of the word, faster, more powerful, more accurate. He is bigger than GSP, likewise for his reach, he is dangerous both on top and on the bottom when on the ground.

I already had discussions about how Matt Hughes was probably one of the most overrated champions in the UFC, as well as Chuck Liddell. Knocking him down means very little. GSP doesn't have KO power.

It's pretty obvious that Silva goes into this fight with the upper hand, by a far margin.



And yet he's beaten them all.
How do you figure that?



He gets laid and prayed on for 20 minutes by Azerado at 155. (Is supposed to have an incredible bottom game, but couldn't sweep a pretty unknown fighter.)

He got laid on and subbed by Daiju Takase.(Who was 4-7 at the time.)

He got laid on by Lutter for two rounds, too bad Lutter gassed.

Hey got laid on by Sonnen for 5 rounds and almost took away the title.

The only way Silva has been legit beaten (The flying heelhook and the DQ don't count) has been when he's been wrestle******. And GSP is supposed to be the best on the planet at that.

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11-18-2012, 06:19 PM
  #223
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Lol how much water do you think is in Silva's body? If he cuts to 185 as is how can he possibly lost even more water weight? He has to drop actual weight and there isn't enough fat on him to do it without losing muscle mass.
In general, 65% of an adult's bw is composed of water. How much is he walking around at right now is unknown, and his exact body composition is also unknown.
Let's leave it at that.

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And yet he has dominated... I'm not even sure the last time GSP has lost a round actually... in every single fight for 5 years.
Winning unanimously doesn't mean you win every round. I gave one round to Condit yesterday. Versus Shields he lost 2 rounds according to the judges.
So, you don't have to look very far.

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How can you say with any certainty that Silva is quicker? Generally speaking the lower the weight class the quicker the fighters get and nobody at WW is even close to GSP's speed. GSP doesn't have to be aggressive... he's a tremendous counter attacker.
Did you now see Silva's stand up? It's not even a question who's faster.
You don't counterattack Silva. You stay away from his reach, cycle, and hope an opening for a shoot will come sooner rather than later.

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GSP is the best in the business on the ground... Silva is not. You can believe that Silva was "toying" with Sonnen in the first fight but the fact is he got lucky that Sonnen left himself vulnerable and shouldn't have won that fight.
GSP is not the best in the business on the ground. That's absurd. The guy doesn't even submit his opponents, he doesn't even g&p them to a finish point.
He's an amazing wrestler with strong overall skills, but in no way is he the best on the ground. Not even close.
Sure, Silva got ''lucky''. He was so lucky that he got lucky again and KOd him in the 2nd fight.
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You also believe a fighter taunting other fighters somehow makes them more badass so really your opinion is irrelevant.
No I don't. I said he has every right to show boat or taunt or wtv. It's part of the game. He wants to do it, so be it. I think him doing what he does, like drop his hands and have fun avoiding punches, is more remarkable than taunting. You think of him as a dumbass for doing it, ok. Point stands though, if he does that and
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Yeah it really is that simple. You want to give all this respect to Silva and flip out when somebody compared Condit to him (even though nobody did) and yet you're sitting there comparing Sonnen to GSP... they aren't even on the same level.
I explained it to you in a very simple way. If you can't understand, so be it.
As for Sonnen, I didn't compare him to GSP. I said he still lost despite keeping him against his back for most of the fight. Therefore, even if GSP gets him down, he's not guaranteed victory as Silva is still dangerous off his back.
Listen if you can't even be true to yourself about who's got the advantage here, then we can stop discussing this. It's pretty ridiculous actually.

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You never say that about GSP either and yet there you are saying it.
That's because it doesn't apply to GSP. Jesus Christ man.
GSP cannot beat Silva with his strikes, he's very unlikely to beat him in a submission or g&p. His only shot is to take him down, keep him there without making any mistakes. That's it.
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Oh it's quite apparent for everyone to see.
Apparently not for you.
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No, but that's not even comparable. Silva can talk all the trash he wants pre-fight like nearly every other fighter.
He doesn't trash talk at all. His only time was against Sonnen.
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No there's really not. It's retarded any way you do it, regardless of the circumstances.
Sure, for you. Fortunately, there is no right or wrong here, just preferences.

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Not unlike GSP actually. When you win damn near every round (if not every round) for 5 years, you're destroying your opponents.

GSP's record speaks for itself.

It just goes on and on but at the end of the day you're ignoring it for one guy and praising it for the other simply because one is flashy and other isn't.
I'm not ignoring it. It's just that one guy is more dangerous than the other, and it's obvious.
GSP is a great dominant fighter, he's a very smart fighter. But chances are he'd lose versus Silva. It is a bad match up for him because he has little advantage over Silva. Matter of fact, his sole advantage is wrestling, and we all know that despite it being Silva's weakness, it's still not a big one enough that will cause him to lose. That's a fact. Now, perhaps GSP is the best wrestler he'll have faced, you certainly seem to think so, but still, that is in no way a certainty for victory.

I'm ignoring it because one guy is flashy?? Dude, seriously,
If that's what you feel, go right ahead, stop quoting me though and don't engage in a conversation with me about MMA.

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11-18-2012, 06:25 PM
  #224
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How do you figure that?



He gets laid and prayed on for 20 minutes by Azerado at 155. (Is supposed to have an incredible bottom game, but couldn't sweep a pretty unknown fighter.)

He got laid on and subbed by Daiju Takase.(Who was 4-7 at the time.)

He got laid on by Lutter for two rounds, too bad Lutter gassed.

Hey got laid on by Sonnen for 5 rounds and almost took away the title.

The only way Silva has been legit beaten (The flying heelhook and the DQ don't count) has been when he's been wrestle******. And GSP is supposed to be the best on the planet at that.
Oh right, it's Lutter that gassed, otherwise he'd have won.
And then it's Sonnen that made a mistake, otherwise he'd have won.

Sure, it's their fault, Silva had nothing to do with it of course. Lutter just gassed out by himself and Sonnen just gave his arm to Silva and asked him to submit him.

As for the rest, really..? Not even going to address that.


As for Hughes, he fought at a time where his competition wasn't really amazing.
He lost to BJ, then fought guys like Verrissimo, a green GSP, Joe freaking Riggs...I mean come on..I'm supposed to be impressed?

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11-18-2012, 06:25 PM
  #225
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Geoge bulked up too much. You can tell he lost a little speed. Ring rust didn't help either. The first couple times George took Condit down he got some nice elbows in, but after that it looked to me Condit was doing more damage to George laying on his back. Look at Georges face and look at Condit's. Not saying George didn't win the fight, he did. It just wasn't impressive enough.

At that point George was doing a lot of holding and pushing. He should have pounded him in that situation. It would have been nice to see George more active at striking. It's best if George stays away of both Silva and Hendricks. George has that glass jaw that doesn't take a flush shot to hurt him. The kick Condit hurt George with was off balance kicking from far left, and not directly flush. Still hurt him.

All the Champs at some point start to fade away. George looks like he's on that road. You can't be on top forever.How much time he has left I don't know. He looks like he is on the decline and time is running out. Maybe just retire while your on top.If he does fight Silva or Hendricks next it could very well be his last fight. Laying on the canvas seeing tweety birds out cold.

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