HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

The new All Purpose Lu Thread (MOD Warning in OP)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-18-2012, 04:55 PM
  #51
Numbers
Registered User
 
Numbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
i gotta wonder how the UFA goalie market will inpact lou's value? if the season gets wiped out TT, jimmy Howard, mike simth, backstrom and others are set to be UFA supply could outweigh demand
Is the league cutting some teams? Because if not, all those teams losing goalies will be looking a new one. If Jimmy Howard leaves Detroit I think they become a big Luongo suitor.

Numbers is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 04:55 PM
  #52
WonderTwinsUnite
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: North Delta, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,362
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
We'll keep our 2nd best player from the past season who has developed great chemistry with Kessel.
Then have fun with Reimer and placing bottom-10.

WonderTwinsUnite is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 04:57 PM
  #53
Numbers
Registered User
 
Numbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Lombardi
Kadri/Colborne
Percy/Franson
1st in 2014

for

Raymond
Luongo
Finn instead of Percy/franson and 2013 protected 1st(deferred to 2014 if top 10)


Numbers is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 04:58 PM
  #54
marty111
Registered User
 
marty111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,419
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Why swap draft picks? With Luongo on the leafs the picks could be just 10 spots a part and I do not see the canucks adding a pick to get a pick. For me the picks are nearly a wash.

Lupul and Lambardi are UFA after this year
Swapping picks I think it better value in perspective. Non-protected is a gamble but VAN likely gets the best prospect out of any deal this way, one of which they get to choose. Also, what do you think would be the price on draft day to move from say 25 to 16? More than a second I would guess.

Lupul could be contingent of being resigned (as I've said) and Lombardi being a UFA in one year is a good thing.

marty111 is online now  
Old
11-18-2012, 04:59 PM
  #55
WonderTwinsUnite
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: North Delta, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,362
vCash: 500
Lombardi is BRUTAL for a main piece. Someone like MacArthur is much better.

WonderTwinsUnite is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 05:03 PM
  #56
racerjoe
Registered User
 
racerjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I would be interested in a proposal under the "current" cap that outlines that Vancouver can IMPROVE it's roster within it's current cap space, which is my point. Future challenges can only be speculated about, however they can be substantiated with educated guesses from everything we expect to happen.



Again, I have stated facts and supported valid speculation with those facts using various sources and examples. My opinion currently is valid and I challenge other posters [if they disagree] to support their opinion with something other than "anything can happen".
You are getting better, but I would argue for any team that has won two PT's is going to be hard pressed to improve.

Just as your opinion is valid so is everyone elses, as it is just that an opinion. You make some leaps, and some bounds as you also need to look at the other side.

The two things you need to ask are:

Can the Canucks keep him for the foreseeable future? Answer yes, it is probably best to trade him, but part of that includes what we get back.

What does getting a goalie mean to other teams? This is harder to answer. One could make a very strong case the leafs absolutely need to upgrade their goalie position, one could make an argument that Burkes job could be on the line with or without it. There is also at least a few teams interested. So how much each team wants him can change between teams.

racerjoe is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 05:12 PM
  #57
mstad101
Registered User
 
mstad101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,862
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
i gotta wonder how the UFA goalie market will inpact lou's value? if the season gets wiped out TT, jimmy Howard, mike simth, backstrom and others are set to be UFA supply could outweigh demand
Well considering the fact that 3 out of those 4 goalies are highly likely to re-sign in their respective cities and the 4th is a 38 year old who decided not to play hockey at all this season in any league.
Howard won't be leaving Detroit unless for some unknown reason the Wings don't bother offering a contract. Only way I see this happening is if Wings sign Perry first and go with no goalie again
Backstrom has been in Minny since became across the pond and is at the age where winning is important, a team who just acquired the two top Free Agents this last summer offers a desirable location and is in a division where only 1 team has been great at the othe 4 mediocre at best. Offering a higher chance to be in the playoffs than any but the South East as a possibility.
And Smith isn't leaving PHX. I don't care what people say about ownership crap, obviously guys like playing there, especially when you get a Vezina nomination, a Western Final appearance and a hugely statistical improvement with a new goaltending coach, I doubt Smith leaves for anyone but Philly, depending on if Bryz doesn't wanna come back. Since they'd be the only other true playoff contender to be looking for a goalie.


But the Leafs can continue to hold out hope guys like Timmy T can pull them outta the gutter.

mstad101 is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 05:34 PM
  #58
LEAFANFORLIFE23
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,619
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
Then have fun with Reimer and placing bottom-10.
or we could sign a goalie

LEAFANFORLIFE23 is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 05:36 PM
  #59
racerjoe
Registered User
 
racerjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
or we could sign a goalie
I feel we are going in circles even faster as the poster above you is talking about that, and showing why most likely one will not be available.

racerjoe is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 05:38 PM
  #60
Nuck This
Registered User
 
Nuck This's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Iran
Posts: 2,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Lombardi
Kadri/Colborne
Percy/Franson
1st in 2014

for

Raymond
Luongo
Canucks have no need for Lombardi. Kadri doesn't sit well with me. If Hodgson had trouble staying on AVs good side I can't imagine AV trusting Kadri. I like his skill but it's his play away from the puck that has me concerned. So neither of those two

This is what fits for the Canucks (obviously some pieces Torotno wouldn't give, but just from Vancouvers perspective)

Kessel, Lupul, Grabovski, Kulemin, JVR, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Franson, Rielly, Finn, Percy, Biggs and the 2013 first. Figure out your package from that and what would be going along with Luongo.


Last edited by Nuck This: 11-18-2012 at 05:47 PM.
Nuck This is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 05:43 PM
  #61
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,759
vCash: 5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
Canucks have no need for Lombardi. Kadri doesn't sit well with me. If Hodgson had trouble staying on AVs good side I can't imagine AV trusting Kadri. I like his skill but it's his play away from the puck that has me concerned. So neither of those two

This is what fits for the Canucks (obviously some pieces Torotno wouldn't give, but just from Vancouvers perspective)

Kessel, Lupul, Grabovski, Kulemin, JVR, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Franson, Rielly, Finn, Percy, Biggs and the 2014 first. Figure out your package from that and what would be going along with Luongo.
I wouldn't mind Kadri as a piece coming back, the main reason why Hodgson left town was because of a misunderstanding/miscommunication about his back injury.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 05:45 PM
  #62
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
Then have fun with Reimer and placing bottom-10.
So Reimer is terrible and has no future?

RogerRoeper* is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 05:46 PM
  #63
Nuck This
Registered User
 
Nuck This's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Iran
Posts: 2,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I wouldn't mind Kadri as a piece coming back, the main reason why Hodgson left town was because of a misunderstanding/miscommunication about his back injury.
I think it had something to do with who was ahead of him on the depth chart. No way was he gonna beat out Henrik or Kesler until one of them retired. Hodgson wan;ts his cake now. I wouldn't be mad if we got Kadri...I just don't think AV would be willing to let him play.

Nuck This is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 05:56 PM
  #64
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,759
vCash: 5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
I think it had something to do with who was ahead of him on the depth chart. No way was he gonna beat out Henrik or Kesler until one of them retired. Hodgson wan;ts his cake now. I wouldn't be mad if we got Kadri...I just don't think AV would be willing to let him play.
Kadri also plays wing, that's where a lot of people see him finding his niche at the NHL level.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 06:05 PM
  #65
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Kadri is looking great right now. I don't want to see him go. He's very underrated as a prospect.

RogerRoeper* is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 06:07 PM
  #66
racerjoe
Registered User
 
racerjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
So Reimer is terrible and has no future?
Chances are much slimmer that he will be a legit #1. Not that they are zero.

racerjoe is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 06:11 PM
  #67
Intense Rage
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 794
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
So Reimer is terrible and has no future?
Exactly. He was terrible last year and hence he will continue to suck. Your only choice is Luongo, so you better bend over and take it.

Sadly that is the opinion of some that continue to post on here. They refuse to acknowledge that teams have the option of going in with the same goaltending as the previous year. Hence you get the "If you don't want Luongo, have fun getting sucky goaltending forever".

Intense Rage is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 06:13 PM
  #68
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Chances are much slimmer that he will be a legit #1. Not that they are zero.
He had a dissaapointing year after getting a concussion.

RogerRoeper* is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 06:13 PM
  #69
BlueBaron
Registered User
 
BlueBaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,265
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
Lombardi is BRUTAL for a main piece. Someone like MacArthur is much better.
He is also one of the most logical players for us to move who isn't an obvious dump though many Canuck fans don't seem interested (I am if the belief he is holding Kadri's spot). I also think Bozak works for both sides.

The problem is what comes after. Most Canuck fans want our first we want to trade our 2nd. Most Canuck fans want one of our top forward prospects and we want to trade a d because we are deeper there. From what I can tell for the Leaf fans the offer is

CMac (a solid forward who is expendable because of Kadri and our surplus of forward)
Bozak
Blacker (a solid but not great prospect in our deepest prospect position)
2nd (still need the pick but hey, we need a goalie too)

But Canuck fans want

Kuleman (best defensive forward who had a bad year and thus is at low value)
Bozak
Kadri/Coburne (our top forward prospects which is our weakest position)
1rst (the piece we need to get our future number 1 center)

Its a big gap. Our offer reflects our needs and strengths we can trade from. The Canuck offer reflects their need and desire to get the most value possible. This is the basic problem, niether side gives a crap about the needs of the other.

BlueBaron is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 06:18 PM
  #70
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,759
vCash: 5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
He is also one of the most logical players for us to move who isn't an obvious dump though many Canuck fans don't seem interested (I am if the belief he is holding Kadri's spot). I also think Bozak works for both sides.

The problem is what comes after. Most Canuck fans want our first we want to trade our 2nd. Most Canuck fans want one of our top forward prospects and we want to trade a d because we are deeper there. From what I can tell for the Leaf fans the offer is

CMac (a solid forward who is expendable because of Kadri and our surplus of forward)
Bozak
Blacker (a solid but not great prospect in our deepest prospect position)
2nd (still need the pick but hey, we need a goalie too)

But Canuck fans want

Kuleman (best defensive forward who had a bad year and thus is at low value)
Bozak
Kadri/Coburne (our top forward prospects which is our weakest position)
1rst (the piece we need to get our future number 1 center)

Its a big gap. Our offer reflects our needs and strengths we can trade from. The Canuck offer reflects their need and desire to get the most value possible. This is the basic problem, niether side gives a crap about the needs of the other.
That Macarthur and Bozak only have a few months left on their contract doesn't help. Also, Macarthur only plays LW, IIRC, while Kulemin can play right, making him more valuable to us.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 06:20 PM
  #71
racerjoe
Registered User
 
racerjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
He had a dissaapointing year after getting a concussion.
But look at the history of young goalies, more evidence (more young goalies) become that of Jim Carey, or Raycroft, especially if they don't have a high pedigree to begin with. All I am saying is there is better odds, of him flopping than not. He very well could turn out. And if you feel you would rather gamble on him that is fine.

The Canucks are making the same gamble with Shniedes, there are a few differences that would make the odds slightly favor us, his pedigree, and his stats have stayed consistent in his two seasons.

So either way both teams would be gambling, one team is just playing with better odds on that gamble.

racerjoe is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 06:27 PM
  #72
BlueBaron
Registered User
 
BlueBaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,265
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
That Macarthur and Bozak only have a few months left on their contract doesn't help. Also, Macarthur only plays LW, IIRC, while Kulemin can play right, making him more valuable to us.
Not arguing, just pointing out why its so hard for both sides to come to an agreement. Though I do believe both would be thrilled to be on a contender and signing them may not be much of a problem. I give you permission to call them and negotiate new deals before we make the trade

BlueBaron is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 06:35 PM
  #73
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,759
vCash: 5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
Not arguing, just pointing out why its so hard for both sides to come to an agreement. Though I do believe both would be thrilled to be on a contender and signing them may not be much of a problem. I give you permission to call them and negotiate new deals before we make the trade
If it were Lupul, you might be on to something.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 06:40 PM
  #74
BlueBaron
Registered User
 
BlueBaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,265
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
If it were Lupul, you might be on to something.
C'mon now, you know we love our Lupul too much, he is our number 1 LW. Fair value maybe, but it would really hurt our team to do.

BlueBaron is offline  
Old
11-18-2012, 06:40 PM
  #75
kthsn
Registered User
 
kthsn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,499
vCash: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
Its a big gap. Our offer reflects our needs and strengths we can trade from. The Canuck offer reflects their need and desire to get the most value possible. This is the basic problem, niether side gives a crap about the needs of the other.
Players that are deemed expendable from the Leafs POV hold even less value to a deeper Canucks team.

The players the Canucks want the most like Kulemin/Kadri are for depth on the 2/3rd lines or prospect pool. I'd say that Luongo fills a much bigger need than any roster player on the Leafs except for Phaneuf or Kessel.

Most Canucks fans want a package of 3-4 parts which isn't doable from the Leafs POV because they can't afford to give up that many "high" value pieces.

Another big problem arises when every single Leafs piece is considered untouchable. Players like Frattin, Finn, Kulemin are very much secondary pieces in comparison to a player like Luongo.

I've always been in the camp that Gillis should get only impact player for Luongo, for example Grabovski. Packages of Kulemin (good tweener) or Bozak (#3C) can be easily acquired for picks at the TDL (like Higgins or Lappy).

kthsn is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.