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Old
11-18-2012, 06:43 PM
  #76
WonderTwinsUnite
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Lupul
MacArthur

for

Luongo
Raymond
4th

No giving up prospects or 1sts. Sign another forward to offset lost offense.

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Old
11-18-2012, 06:43 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Players that are deemed expendable from the Leafs POV hold even less value to a deeper Canucks team.

The players the Canucks want the most like Kulemin/Kadri are for depth on the 2/3rd lines or prospect pool. I'd say that Luongo fills a much bigger need than any roster player on the Leafs except for Phaneuf or Kessel.

Most Canucks fans want a package of 3-4 parts which isn't doable from the Leafs POV because they can't afford to give up that many "high" value pieces.

Another big problem arises when every single Leafs piece is considered untouchable. Players like Frattin, Finn, Kulemin are very much secondary pieces in comparison to a player like Luongo.

I've always been in the camp that Gillis should get only impact player for Luongo, for example Grabovski. Packages of Kulemin (good tweener) or Bozak (#3C) can be easily acquired for picks at the TDL (like Higgins or Lappy).
Ok Luongo for Grabovski, done deal.

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Old
11-18-2012, 06:47 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
Not arguing, just pointing out why its so hard for both sides to come to an agreement. Though I do believe both would be thrilled to be on a contender and signing them may not be much of a problem. I give you permission to call them and negotiate new deals before we make the trade
The reason both sides cannot come to agreement is due to some Leaf fans not wanting to give up quality. The players you just offered do not come close in value to an all-star goalie. Even using the contract argument, does not justify this. In fact the way CBA negotiations have progressed it looks as though no one but the Canucks will be affected by the length of the contract.

Core pieces like Lupul, Kulemin, 1st are starting points to base deal around.

Then you need 1 or 2 (depending on core piece) secondary pieces like Bozak, Colbourne, Kadri, Frattin

If you need value balancers (negative/positive) you then have pieces like Lombardi, Connolly, Blacker, Macarthur, 2nd

This type of structure works at creating an agreement that helps Vancouver now or in the future. I understand Toronto fans not wanting to give up some pieces, but keep in mind what you will be getting in return and how much of an impact it will to be your team.


Last edited by Numbers: 11-18-2012 at 07:19 PM.
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Old
11-18-2012, 06:50 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
Ok Luongo for Grabovski, done deal.
I doubt there are many other Leaf fans who go for this. To me, Grabo is the most appealing piece you guys have. I would do the deal straight up.

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11-18-2012, 06:52 PM
  #80
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I would ask for a minor piece like a second, along with Grabo just for the sake of it, but I think Lupul is a lot more expendable than Grabo from the Leafs POV, unless maybe you had another deal in place for Getzlaf or something.

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11-18-2012, 06:53 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
Ok Luongo for Grabovski, done deal.
Best offer in 30+ threads. I'd do it.

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Old
11-18-2012, 06:54 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I would ask for a minor piece like a second, along with Grabo just for the sake of it.
Hell get them to throw in a 3rd or a 4th and we'll pick up another Higgins/Pahlsson/Lappy for the playoffs.

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11-18-2012, 06:56 PM
  #83
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He is our best center, but the drop from him to Connolly is eclipsed by the rise from Riemer to Luongo. Grabovski is also a bit expensive so I would do this deal. The other pieces Canuck fans talk about our fill in piece is usually a big drop. We have nothing to replace Kuleman and Kadri taking Lupul's spot is a huge drop (assuming he stays in form). I can't speak for most of our fans, and heck most of them are crazy anyway, but I do believe Burke would do this . The money works out pretty well too.

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Old
11-18-2012, 06:57 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Hell get them to throw in a 3rd or a 4th and we'll pick up another Higgins/Pahlsson/Lappy for the playoffs.
Fine, Grabo and a 3rd but that's it

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Old
11-18-2012, 07:00 PM
  #85
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So...

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Kassian
Higgins-Grabovski-Hansen
Raymond-Malhotra/Laperre-Lapierre/Weise

As a forward group is pretty sweet. Awesome depth, although I would want to acquire a quality fourth liner from somewhere, which shouldn't be too hard.

Kind of weird that our 3C would be making half a million more than our 2C, though.

Grabovski + 2nd should do it, at least from my POV.

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11-18-2012, 07:01 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
Fine, Grabo and a 3rd but that's it
Excellent.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Higgins
Raymond - Grabovski - Hansen
Manny - Lappy - Weise
(Kassian/Schroeder in AHL)

Edler - Garrison
Hamhuis - Bieksa
Ballard - Tanev
Joslin

Schneider
Lack

Pick up another 3rd line tweener at the TDL with the Leafs 3rd.

Looks to be a contender with enough C depth to match LA/BOS/PIT. Finally we get more secondary scoring as Grabovski is very good at creating scoring chances even while played in a shut down role.

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11-18-2012, 07:04 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So...

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Kassian
Higgins-Grabovski-Hansen
Raymond-Malhotra/Laperre-Lapierre/Weise

As a forward group is pretty sweet. Awesome depth, although I would want to acquire a quality fourth liner from somewhere, which shouldn't be too hard.

Kind of weird that our 3C would be making half a million more than our 2C, though.

Grabovski + 2nd should do it, at least from my POV.
I would like to see Grabo at 2 C, and move Kes to the wing (addresses our need for a legit top-6 winger) albeit by acquiring a top-6 center.

I would really be into somethin like

Luongo + mid-late pick
For
Grabovski + Kadri

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Old
11-18-2012, 07:05 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So...

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Kassian
Higgins-Grabovski-Hansen
Raymond-Malhotra/Laperre-Lapierre/Weise

As a forward group is pretty sweet. Awesome depth, although I would want to acquire a quality fourth liner from somewhere, which shouldn't be too hard.

Kind of weird that our 3C would be making half a million more than our 2C, though.

Grabovski + 2nd should do it, at least from my POV.
Anaheim needs a second line center badly. It would make a lot more sense to flip Grabovski + 1st for Perry or Ryan.

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Old
11-18-2012, 07:06 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I would like to see Grabo at 2 C, and move Kes to the wing (addresses our need for a legit top-6 winger) albeit by acquiring a top-6 center.

I would really be into somethin like

Luongo + mid-late pick
For
Grabovski + Kadri
Kesler is a selke winning center I don't moving him to wing makes sense.

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Old
11-18-2012, 07:09 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Kesler is a selke winning center I don't moving him to wing makes sense.
Hes looked good at wing in the past.

Having a 5.5 million Grabo at 3C is a waste.

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Old
11-18-2012, 07:10 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Anaheim needs a second line center badly. It would make a lot more sense to flip Grabovski + 1st for Perry or Ryan.
That would make sense.

Maybe even

Luongo to Leafs
Grabo + Kadri to Ducks
Ryan to Van

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Old
11-18-2012, 07:11 PM
  #92
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Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Grabovski - Kesler
Higgins - Lappy - Hansen
Volpatti - Manny - Kassian
Ebbet
(Schroeder in AHL)

Edler - Garrison
Hamhuis - Bieksa
Ballard - Tanev
Alberts/Joslin

Schneider
Lack

Pick up our biggest need at the TDL with the Leafs 3rd plus other picks

I think it'd be great to move Kesler to RW, I think his play style over the last 2 seasons is more of a winger but I'd still play him as a Center obviously on the PK and PP on his strong side. Lappy can play 3C no problem.

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Old
11-18-2012, 07:13 PM
  #93
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
That would make sense.

Maybe even

Luongo to Leafs
Grabo + Kadri to Ducks
Ryan to Van
If we can get Perry re-signed I'd prefer him to Ryan. A better player, and more likely to be expendable from Anaheim.

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Old
11-18-2012, 07:13 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Hes looked good at wing in the past.

Having a 5.5 million Grabo at 3C is a waste.
Ya you are right. How bout keep Kesler at 2C. Anaheim needs a second line center badly. So flip Grabovski and send a 1st for Perry or Ryan. By the Leafs do not trade Grabovski, it is terrible asset management. I cannot believe BlueBaron would rather trade Grabovski over Lupul. Center is a major need, wingers is position of strength. At any rate I might take the deal and as I say flip Grabovski for a player which would fit much better.

Edit: I see you comment about my proposal sorry for the repeat.

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11-18-2012, 07:13 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
He is our best center, but the drop from him to Connolly is eclipsed by the rise from Riemer to Luongo. Grabovski is also a bit expensive so I would do this deal. The other pieces Canuck fans talk about our fill in piece is usually a big drop. We have nothing to replace Kuleman and Kadri taking Lupul's spot is a huge drop (assuming he stays in form). I can't speak for most of our fans, and heck most of them are crazy anyway, but I do believe Burke would do this . The money works out pretty well too.
You are already without a 1C and you want to trade away your 2C as well? If your goal is to win anything in the next 5 years you will need Grabovski. In about a dozen games that I saw the Leafs play last year, Connolly was terrible. Aside from that you have Lombardi, who was completely useless and then Bozak who did a serviceable job.

Value maybe fair from both sides but you would then have next to nonexistent center depth.

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11-18-2012, 07:14 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Hes looked good at wing in the past.

Having a 5.5 million Grabo at 3C is a waste.
Salary is irrelevant, Grabovski at 3C gives us the ability to roll 3 lines including 2 shutdown lines who can score.

How many teams can match up? LA and maybe STL. 3 solid lines > 2 very good lines (Kes at wing). Either way AV gets to mix and match and we get secondary scoring.

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11-18-2012, 07:14 PM
  #97
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Kesler is a selke winning center I don't moving him to wing makes sense.
If we were acquiring a guy like Sundin again I'd have no problem moving Kesler to the wing. But acquiring a guy who is a quality centre but more of an offensive threat than a defensive selke centre like Kes, than keeping Grabo on the 3rd line, which is more of a 2B when you factor in the offensive potential between those three.
Higgins was great last year even with missing some time, and Hansen has really found a niche in a playmaking defensive forward, kid may not score a lot of goals, but he's got decent vision and is perfect for board play when you have two better shooters with him. Which Grabo and Higs are.

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Old
11-18-2012, 07:22 PM
  #98
BlueBaron
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
You are already without a 1C and you want to trade away your 2C as well? If your goal is to win anything in the next 5 years you will need Grabovski. In about a dozen games that I saw the Leafs play last year, Connolly was terrible. Aside from that you have Lombardi, who was completely useless and then Bozak who did a serviceable job.

Value maybe fair from both sides but you would then have next to nonexistent center depth.
Bozak
Connolly
Lombardi (ends up a bottom 6 winger)
McClement
Steckel

I know many might disagree but I could live with it , especially breaking even on the cap. I really don't think the drop in offense would be that huge. The loss of character at forward would hurt more than his actual offense.

This also ignores we have three prospects that all could potentially be 2nd line centers.

Colborne, McKegg and Kadri (more likely a winger)

We would have to resign Bozak (if one of the kids had not stolen his job) and next summer get a good center for sure when Connolly came off the books.


Last edited by BlueBaron: 11-18-2012 at 07:29 PM.
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Old
11-18-2012, 07:29 PM
  #99
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I think a better trade for Toronto is keep Grabovski, because he is your best center, a position of need.

Trade Kulemin, Bozak, Colbourne, 1st protected(if top 10 deferred to 2014)

For Luongo, Raymond

Kulemin is replaced by Raymond, a small downgrade

Leafs just signed Mclement and have Steckel, Connolly and can call up Kadri to fill out top 9C positions. Again trading Bozak is a small downgrade is this area, but who knows maybe Kadri is as good as Leafs fans say and makes it an upgrade. In the offseason it is too hard to predict, but having goaltending and defence filled out looks a lot more promising to future UFA, dare I say Getzlaf.

Colbourne and 1st will not affect roster, but are necessary value added.

Net affect: No top players traded from last season. Addition of all-star goalie. Leafs make playoffs. Brian Burke keeps his job. More attractive location for pending UFAs.

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Old
11-18-2012, 07:35 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
I think a better trade for Toronto is keep Grabovski, because he is your best center, a position of need.

Trade Kulemin, Bozak, Colbourne, 1st protected(if top 10 deferred to 2014)

For Luongo, Raymond

Kulemin is replaced by Raymond, a small downgrade

Leafs just signed Mclement and have Steckel, Connolly and can call up Kadri to fill out top 9C positions. Again trading Bozak is a small downgrade is this area, but who knows maybe Kadri is as good as Leafs fans say and makes it an upgrade. In the offseason it is too hard to predict, but having goaltending and defence filled out looks a lot more promising to future UFA, dare I say Getzlaf.

Colbourne and 1st will not affect roster, but are necessary value added.

Net affect: No top players traded from last season. Addition of all-star goalie. Leafs make playoffs. Brian Burke keeps his job.
I would get rid of both kuli and raymond and just forget this protected first garbage, the main reason the leafs dont want to move our first is we have been burned recently by doing such a thing, add that to 2013 being a really good draft, add a 2nd and a later pick.

So:
Bozak
Colborne
2nd
4th

your play!

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