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Old
11-16-2012, 08:57 PM
  #76
Zippy316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
In Vancouver he'd be our third pairing defenseman though. We know how much flak Ballard gets, and he doesn't make that much more than Tallinder. Ideally I think Vancouver would need a cheap reliable 3rd pairing defenseman to possibly replace Ballard in the event of a cap crunch, but Tallinder isn't really the best fit, I think.

EDIT: Although I think I misread capgeek, I originally thought he was making 3.75 mil. My bad.
To Vancouver, he is overpaid for the role he would play. However, his role on most teams is a second pairing guy, and he's not overpaid for what he brings in terms of that.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:24 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeslerKrony View Post
Kovalchuk returned Bergfors, Oduya, Cormier and a 1st for Atlanta.

Even with Bergfors hype at the time, Schneider and Kassian is a similar package (I don't mind throwing in a good pick as well if it's "close" for NJ fans)

Plus, Zajac is an impending UFA and there have been reports (albeit not confirmed) that he may not sign. His value is probably lower than it should be.
That was a rental, and Lou is not Don Waddell. Nobody is going to take him to the cleaners.

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Originally Posted by Devils Trap View Post
You have to massively overpay to get Kovy from NJ
I note that nobody has taken Kovy's contract clauses into account either. He has a full NMC for a good portion of the deal. Unless he wants to be traded, he's not leaving the Devils.

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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
Okay, fair enough. But who do you think replaces Brodeur down the road though? Wedgewood or Frazee? I'm not really sure how comfortable I would be with that if that were my team.
Lou says he is confident in the abilities of our goalie prospects. That's good enough for Devils fans.

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Old
11-17-2012, 12:24 AM
  #78
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no thank you. it's basically kesler, schneider, and kassian for kovalchuk (a terrible contract). i'm not counting zajac because he's a ufa and won't sign in van

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Old
11-17-2012, 02:39 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
no thank you. it's basically kesler, schneider, and kassian for kovalchuk (a terrible contract). i'm not counting zajac because he's a ufa and won't sign in van
we all know that kovalchuck is not just a terrible contract, he's also the best player on this list AINEC

also Zajac does hold value, especially to NJ, upcoming ufa's aren't worthless they are just worth less than before

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Old
11-17-2012, 03:33 AM
  #80
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Kovalchuk's contract is great. 6.7 for one of the top players in the league is awesome as you don't have to worry about losing him to free agency. Luongo is the definition of a terrible contract... and NJ would never do this. Maybe if it was for Kesler, Edler and a first rounder.

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11-17-2012, 03:58 AM
  #81
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No interest in trading Kesler and while I doubt NJ wants to trade Kovalchuk. I'd certainly listen to that Edler+ demand.

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11-17-2012, 08:38 AM
  #82
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Kovalchuk's contract is not terrible. Unless you also believe Luongo's contract is terrible. A $6.7 M cap hit for the rest of the career of an elite sniper who is fitting into the Devils' game more and more every day, is an excellent deal.

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11-17-2012, 09:42 AM
  #83
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Kovalchuk's typical front-loaded contract. It is wonderful for teams spending to the salary-cap ceiling. It is terrible for lower limit teams.

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11-17-2012, 10:59 AM
  #84
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I love how Kovalchuk's contract is just called "awful" by everyone

but they fail to mention that he is a top 10 player in the league signed to a REASONABLE cap hit. how is that "awful" exactly?

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Old
11-17-2012, 11:32 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
no thank you. it's basically kesler, schneider, and kassian for kovalchuk (a terrible contract). i'm not counting zajac because he's a ufa and won't sign in van
you sound exactly like a Leaf fan trying to downplay Luongo... kovalchuk is one of the best players in the world.

I wouldnt do this trade but it's not because kovalchuk has a "terrible contract". Not even close.

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11-17-2012, 12:10 PM
  #86
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Old
11-18-2012, 11:43 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeslerKrony View Post
Kovalchuk returned Bergfors, Oduya, Cormier and a 1st for Atlanta.

Even with Bergfors hype at the time, Schneider and Kassian is a similar package (I don't mind throwing in a good pick as well if it's "close" for NJ fans)

Plus, Zajac is an impending UFA and there have been reports (albeit not confirmed) that he may not sign. His value is probably lower than it should be.
Kovy on a lifetime contract >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rental Kovy, value wise.

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Old
11-19-2012, 12:09 AM
  #88
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kovalchuk is overrated as hell, great talent but does not play both ends of the rink.

guys like henrique is what the devils should build around not kovalchuk.


I wouldn't trade schneider alone for kovalchuk.

Canucks have enough star players that don't elevate their games, ie sedins, we don't need more.

And his contract......

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Old
11-19-2012, 12:20 AM
  #89
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Kovalchuk's contract is only a minute factor in this. Any Canucks fan who thinks otherwise is a hippocrite, as well as wrong.

The OP would probably be close to fair value, but New Jersey needs more wingers, trading their franchise winger is the last thing they would do.

I would do the OP, as it makes a lot of sense for us. New Jersey...not so much.

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Old
11-19-2012, 01:49 AM
  #90
ahmon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post


Kovalchuk's contract is only a minute factor in this. Any Canucks fan who thinks otherwise is a hippocrite, as well as wrong.

The OP would probably be close to fair value, but New Jersey needs more wingers, trading their franchise winger is the last thing they would do.

I would do the OP, as it makes a lot of sense for us. New Jersey...not so much.

do you even know what hippocrite means?

If NJ takes schneider in the OP, they win that trade easily.

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Old
11-19-2012, 02:19 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
If NJ takes schneider in the OP, they win that trade easily.
Thanks for the laugh.

Cheers

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Old
11-19-2012, 02:27 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Yuri the Fury View Post
Thanks for the laugh.

Cheers
no problem. keep your 1-dimensional kovalchuk, don't want him in vancouver.

Suprised of all teams NJ fans don't understand the importance of quality goaltending.

you guys got it for like 2 decades.

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Old
11-19-2012, 08:05 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
kovalchuk is overrated as hell, great talent but does not play both ends of the rink.

guys like henrique is what the devils should build around not kovalchuk.


I wouldn't trade schneider alone for kovalchuk.

Canucks have enough star players that don't elevate their games, ie sedins, we don't need more.

And his contract......
so Kovalchuk doesnt elevate his game? he had 19 points in 23 playoff games while playing on half a back.

please get this uninformed drivel out of here. this is NOT the Kovalchuk from Atlanta. he is a different player now.

he is also a PPG player signed at $6.67 per year. that is a bargain compared to what some of these guys are getting nowadays.

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11-19-2012, 08:26 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
kovalchuk is overrated as hell, great talent but does not play both ends of the rink.

guys like henrique is what the devils should build around not kovalchuk.
You haven't watched Kovy play in NJ, have you? He's no Selke winner, but his defensive game has improved by leaps and bounds. He backchecks regularly, he comes low to help with the breakout instead of flying the zone to cherry pick immediately, and he commits to playing positional defence instead of floating. All of these things are dramatic improvements over Atlanta Kovy.

He even plays a regular shift on the PK now, and he was a big part of the Devils' modern record setting PK last season. The Devils scored more shorthanded goals when he was on the ice, than they had PP goals scored against them during the same amount of ice time. So over a full season, he was a plus player in terms of goal difference on the PK. That's impressive.

And the Devils are planning to build around guys like Henrique, they've been doing that for 25 years with Lou at the helm. But having guys who can score is important too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
no problem. keep your 1-dimensional kovalchuk, don't want him in vancouver.

Suprised of all teams NJ fans don't understand the importance of quality goaltending.

you guys got it for like 2 decades.
Kovalchuk is no longer a one dimensional player, as I explained above.

We do understand the importance of quality goaltending. We are also aware that we have a good tandem locked up with NTCs for the next two years. There is no place for us to put Schneider unless we force Moose to retire. Why trade a franchise winger for a package featuring a goalie that we're going to stuff in the AHL for another two years?

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11-19-2012, 02:41 PM
  #95
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I'm not even going to bother with the one-dimensional Kovalchuk stuff. Just foolish and stupid talk. I can understand if someone says his defensive game is questionable, but one-dimensional just makes people look like absolute morons.

Saugus, don't forget that Kovalchuk had a POSITIVE goal differential on the PK while playing regularly.

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Old
11-19-2012, 02:44 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post


Kovalchuk's contract is only a minute factor in this. Any Canucks fan who thinks otherwise is a hippocrite, as well as wrong.

The OP would probably be close to fair value, but New Jersey needs more wingers, trading their franchise winger is the last thing they would do.

I would do the OP, as it makes a lot of sense for us. New Jersey...not so much.
In a market where there is a lot of money, the only thing that matters is the cap hit. For a team like Vancouver, they are getting a PPG player who controls the game when he's on the ice for 6.66 million, it's an absolute steal. The 11 million is irrelevant for a market like Vancouver, for the Devils, it's a bit of different story with the conflicting reports on ownership troubles and money issues. Whether it's actually bad or how bad it is, we will likely never know.

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Old
11-19-2012, 02:46 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
Kovy on a lifetime contract >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rental Kovy, value wise.
Can you come into a Luongo thread some time and show it's not just Canucks fans that think this way?

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Old
11-19-2012, 02:49 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
In a market where there is a lot of money, the only thing that matters is the cap hit. For a team like Vancouver, they are getting a PPG player who controls the game when he's on the ice for 6.66 million, it's an absolute steal. The 11 million is irrelevant for a market like Vancouver, for the Devils, it's a bit of different story with the conflicting reports on ownership troubles and money issues. Whether it's actually bad or how bad it is, we will likely never know.
What about the CBA clause to transfer part of the salary to teams (something like a max of 3 million)? Then we could send someone back and pay part of the salary for the duration of some of our "cap dump" players as an inclusion (ie Ballard for 1.2 million....he seems a lot better for that).

Focusing on that, what happened to Edler+Schneider for Kovy? Was that shot down due to both Brodeur and Hedberg (I'd gladly take Hedberg back....NTC though), or what?

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Old
11-19-2012, 02:49 PM
  #99
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Wouldn't let Kovy go at all. He led us to the SCF last year operating at 75% at his healthiest in the playoffs.

Zajac I would dump if he turned down a contract extension.

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11-19-2012, 02:51 PM
  #100
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Wouldn't let Kovy go at all. He led us to the SCF last year operating at 75% at his healthiest in the playoffs.

Zajac I would dump if he turned down a contract extension.
We wouldn't be looking at Zajac for Kesler if he was to explore free agency.

Assuming he did turn down a contract extention...what would the asking price on Zajac be?

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