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Lockout Thread: I told myself I wouldn't do this| Part IV

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Old
11-17-2012, 02:05 PM
  #101
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http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/11/16...elColor=sports

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Weeks after what should have been the kickoff to the official NHL season, many fans have said ‘good riddance’ to the league that captivates millions through the winter.

In a Calgary Sun poll this week 88% of 2,900 respondents said they don’t miss NHL hockey, with reasons varying from there’s other things to watch to they’re bitter at players and officials for not settling on a deal by now to they just don’t care.
This is just so funny.

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11-17-2012, 04:29 PM
  #102
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The last couple of lines has it right. When it's cold outside on a Saturday night, there's nothing like Hockey Night in Canada.

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11-17-2012, 06:59 PM
  #103
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The last couple of lines has it right. When it's cold outside on a Saturday night, there's nothing like Hockey Night in Canada.
Not sure much south of the border.

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11-17-2012, 08:07 PM
  #104
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meeting again monday night,small group of players and some owners...

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11-17-2012, 08:33 PM
  #105
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meeting again monday night,small group of players and some owners...
Let's hope these owners aren't standing around with collection trays in their hands ready to pass down the pew.

Invite some successful teams like the Canadiens, Leafs, Flyers and Rangers for some balance.

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11-17-2012, 10:11 PM
  #106
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The last couple of lines has it right. When it's cold outside on a Saturday night, there's nothing like Hockey Night in Canada.
There is nothing like HNIC. Period.

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11-17-2012, 10:40 PM
  #107
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There is nothing like HNIC. Period.
Unless you get the Canuck Broadcasting Crew.

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11-18-2012, 08:52 AM
  #108
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Ian White lashes out at Gary Bettman

"I gotta be honest: I personally think he's an idiot," White told USA Today on Friday. "Since he's come in, I think he's done nothing but damage the game."

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/86...-bettman-idiot

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11-18-2012, 09:15 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
Ian White lashes out at Gary Bettman

"I gotta be honest: I personally think he's an idiot," White told USA Today on Friday. "Since he's come in, I think he's done nothing but damage the game."

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/86...-bettman-idiot
These players should get gag orders from Fehr. Sometimes it's better to just be quiet. Hope no Leafs players embarrass our organization.

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11-18-2012, 09:41 AM
  #110
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These players should get gag orders from Fehr. Sometimes it's better to just be quiet. Hope no Leafs players embarrass our organization.
While White's words crossed a line of respect, however players sounding out against the Owners and Bettman may actually be indirectly responsible for moving these talks along and the sides meeting again tomorrow.

Remember Bettman wanted a 2 week vacation (moratorium) from bargaining, which is what drew White's ire (and many other players) speaking out, trying to understand how getting a deal done is best accomplished by not talking.

Perhaps the Owners realized while they themselves are under a gag order the players aren't, and White's public comments only being a small example of what would be the expected coming storm of verbal attacks in the media against themselves.. If the talks went into hiatus like Bettman wanted, it would only make the players (& the Fans) more frustrated and angry by the NHL's refusal to negotiate, and clearly showing to everyone they have no real desire to reach a deal as the season is getting flushed away slowly..It would also get more and more fans understanding which side wants hockey back on the ice and which side is holding the hockey world hostage.

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11-18-2012, 09:49 AM
  #111
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While White's words crossed a line of respect, however players sounding out against the Owners and Bettman may actually be indirectly responsible for moving these talks along and the sides meeting again tomorrow.

Remember Bettman wanted a 2 week vacation (moratorium) from bargaining, which is what drew White's ire (and many other players) speaking out, trying to understand how getting a deal done is best accomplished by not talking.

Perhaps the Owners realized while they themselves are under a gag order the players aren't, and White's public comments only being a small example of what would be the expected coming storm of verbal attacks in the media against themselves.. If the talks went into hiatus like Bettman wanted, it would only make the players more frustrated and angry by the NHL's refusal to negotiate, and clearly show to everyone they have no real desire to reach a deal as the season is getting flushed away slowly..It would also get more and more fans understanding which side wants hockey back on the ice and which side is holding the hockey world hostage.
The NHL came with their offers, the NHLPA returned with offers that aren't close or anything related. The NHL said 'Let's take a 2 week break' which made sense since there weren't even close (what's new). The meeting on Monday is going to be 'led' by the PA. If they return with more 'delinked' deals, the season is probably finished, in my opinion.

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11-18-2012, 10:12 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
The NHL came with their offers, the NHLPA returned with offers that aren't close or anything related. The NHL said 'Let's take a 2 week break' which made sense since there weren't even close (what's new). The meeting on Monday is going to be 'led' by the PA. If they return with more 'delinked' deals, the season is probably finished, in my opinion.
A true negotiation process intent on meeting in the middle where both sides agree is the path to a successful completed deal, and is not done by one side making take it or leave it offers, demanding all things related fall in their favour, and then not interested in hearing what the other side has to say.

If its "my way or the highway" bullying tactics into submission and then threatening "no talks" if you don't like it, is only going to get worse. If one sides wants ALL-TAKE, and the other side is expected to accept ALL-GIVE then its understandable why there is a stalemate in getting a deal done.

Fehr allowing the players freedom of speech in a free society, seems to be accomplishing the desired effect of getting the Owners back to the table, now if only they would start negotiating rather than continuing their strong arm tactics we could really be getting somewhere.

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11-18-2012, 10:24 AM
  #113
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A true negotiation process intent on meeting in the middle where both sides agree is the path to a successful completed deal, and is not done by one side making take it or leave it offers, demanding all things related fall in their favour, and then not interested in hearing what the other side has to say.

If its "my way or the highway" bullying tactics into submission and then threatening "no talks" if you don't like it, is only going to get worse. If one sides wants ALL-TAKE, and the other side is expected to accept ALL-GIVE then its understandable why there is a stalemate in getting a deal done.

Fehr allowing the players freedom of speech in a free society, seems to be accomplishing the desired effect of getting the Owners back to the table, now if only they would start negotiating rather than continuing their strong arm tactics we could really be getting somewhere.
With players earning 57% of HRR and revenues increasing for the league year over year, they're the ones who will have to give. If they're not willing to give, there will (most likely) be no season. Are the players willing to lose a whole season? That is in their hands. Sure they have the freedom to say what they want but Ian White's remarks do nothing except fester ill feelings. As I said earlier, sometimes it's better for players to say nothing at all and put their head to negotiate instead of spouting off in media. I believe it was ULF who posted that 88% of people polled in for an article could care less about the NHL right now. This affects everyone, players AND owners. If revenue goes down, guess what? Players will get paid less.

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11-18-2012, 11:29 AM
  #114
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These players should get gag orders from Fehr. Sometimes it's better to just be quiet. Hope no Leafs players embarrass our organization.
Lupul already has, going the way of Bryan "we'll never play under a salary cap" McCabe.

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11-18-2012, 12:05 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
While White's words crossed a line of respect, however players sounding out against the Owners and Bettman may actually be indirectly responsible for moving these talks along and the sides meeting again tomorrow.

Remember Bettman wanted a 2 week vacation (moratorium) from bargaining, which is what drew White's ire (and many other players) speaking out, trying to understand how getting a deal done is best accomplished by not talking.

Perhaps the Owners realized while they themselves are under a gag order the players aren't, and White's public comments only being a small example of what would be the expected coming storm of verbal attacks in the media against themselves.. If the talks went into hiatus like Bettman wanted, it would only make the players (& the Fans) more frustrated and angry by the NHL's refusal to negotiate, and clearly showing to everyone they have no real desire to reach a deal as the season is getting flushed away slowly..It would also get more and more fans understanding which side wants hockey back on the ice and which side is holding the hockey world hostage.
Well the cattle does have to moo.

Molson's has come out and expressed their opinion on how things are being done. There is an owner having a 3rd. party do his talking.

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11-18-2012, 12:29 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
With players earning 57% of HRR and revenues increasing for the league year over year, they're the ones who will have to give. If they're not willing to give, there will (most likely) be no season. Are the players willing to lose a whole season? That is in their hands. Sure they have the freedom to say what they want but Ian White's remarks do nothing except fester ill feelings. As I said earlier, sometimes it's better for players to say nothing at all and put their head to negotiate instead of spouting off in media. I believe it was ULF who posted that 88% of people polled in for an article could care less about the NHL right now. This affects everyone, players AND owners. If revenue goes down, guess what? Players will get paid less.
White's remarks are just expressing what he's feeling. I doubt he is alone at all in his feelings. If players really opened up we'd hear a lot more.

Players have agreed to reduce their share of HRR-AE, they just want to move there over time and don't want to accept reducing benefits in every aspect of the deal.

Can you tell me one thing the owners have offered in compensation for the players going to 50% of HRR-AE?

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11-18-2012, 02:14 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
White's remarks are just expressing what he's feeling. I doubt he is alone at all in his feelings. If players really opened up we'd hear a lot more.

Players have agreed to reduce their share of HRR-AE, they just want to move there over time and don't want to accept reducing benefits in every aspect of the deal.

Can you tell me one thing the owners have offered in compensation for the players going to 50% of HRR-AE?
Earning the highest average salary of any hockey league in the world?

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11-18-2012, 02:22 PM
  #118
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Earning the highest average salary of any hockey league in the world?
They've been offered their 50/50 deal scaled in over 3 years, no? I don't know what the problem is? That's a massive concession by the players and it's ridiculous that it's not accepted.

Both sides have come in from their original stance, considerably.

And, IMO, Lupul 100% right calling out Bettman for his supposed 2 week hiatus. There is a lot of smaller jobs in business that are being affected much more then the players.

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11-18-2012, 02:27 PM
  #119
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They've been offered their 50/50 deal scaled in over 3 years, no? I don't know what the problem is? That's a massive concession by the players and it's ridiculous that it's not accepted.

Both sides have come in from their original stance, considerably.

And, IMO, Lupul 100% right calling out Bettman for his supposed 2 week hiatus. There is a lot of smaller jobs in business that are being affected much more then the players.
The owners will NOT accept ANY deal where it is de-linked. If Fehr is hardnosed enough to come back on Monday and still have a de-linked offer, the player can say bye bye to many more paydays (3 missed already).

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11-18-2012, 03:57 PM
  #120
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They've been offered their 50/50 deal scaled in over 3 years, no? I don't know what the problem is? That's a massive concession by the players and it's ridiculous that it's not accepted.

Both sides have come in from their original stance, considerably.

And, IMO, Lupul 100% right calling out Bettman for his supposed 2 week hiatus. There is a lot of smaller jobs in business that are being affected much more then the players.
Whether he's right or not, does he have the same righteous tweets towards his leader for waiting until August to negotiate? For throwing out BS proposals written on napkins. For constantly showing up hours late for meetings? For taking 15 minutes to pour a glass of water? For excusing himself because he "forgot" his notes?

Lupul has been doing this since the lockout began. I remember one tweet that was something along the lines of "What is this lockout number 3 for Gary?" Well, how many work stoppages has your leader been involved in Joffrey?

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11-18-2012, 05:26 PM
  #121
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I would be happy watching AHL right now if stupid Rogers would put it on LIVE on Leafs TV.

I called and complained they gave me $50. Think if enough of us do it they'll listen?

It just blows me away they own the franchise and have 7 channels at their disposal. And all I get is a replay of a game that has already finished.

I know I'll be back so I'm not going to cry about leaving the game, but really I've discovered a couple of good series on TV. Started following NFL closer.

I miss it but no where near as much as I did last time.

Bettman has really laid an egg this time. There will be no bump in revenue upon return if we lose another season.

There is no Ovechkin and Crosby to be the young face of the league to lead the marketing and get people excited.

Times are different. People are worried about their jobs and if they can make mortgage payments. There are no sub-prime mortagages and refinacing of housing equity giving people disposable income for something as frivolous as hockey.

Even if there is a 28game regular season where its just a home and home v. teams in your conference, they have to do it. To lose another full year with no playoffs will just lose even more fans than they have already.

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11-18-2012, 11:50 PM
  #122
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Whether he's right or not, does he have the same righteous tweets towards his leader for waiting until August to negotiate? For throwing out BS proposals written on napkins. For constantly showing up hours late for meetings? For taking 15 minutes to pour a glass of water? For excusing himself because he "forgot" his notes?

Lupul has been doing this since the lockout began. I remember one tweet that was something along the lines of "What is this lockout number 3 for Gary?" Well, how many work stoppages has your leader been involved in Joffrey?
And he's right again. So what. It seems like your just looking to be mad at a player. I don't blame them or Fehr. Working down to 50/50 over a few years is quite fair. That's a lot of money to give back to them.

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11-19-2012, 07:09 AM
  #123
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And he's right again. So what. It seems like your just looking to be mad at a player. I don't blame them or Fehr. Working down to 50/50 over a few years is quite fair. That's a lot of money to give back to them.
He's not right though, especially when he should look at his own side as well. It would be the equivalent of a player getting suspended for elbowing and Matt Cooke tweeting "how many times is this guy going to do this?"

I'm not looking to be mad at the player. I liked Lupul but guys like him and Toews are acting like idiots. The PA hires guys like Goodenow and Fehr,and then act indignant about being locked out.

And as Hurt pointed out, it's not a real 50/50 that the PA offered. If they offer the same thing today (and I'll be surprised if they don't) this thing will continue and we'll get more tweets from players acting innocent saying that they just want to play hockey but the big, bad, evil owners won't let them.

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11-19-2012, 07:52 AM
  #124
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He's not right though, especially when he should look at his own side as well. It would be the equivalent of a player getting suspended for elbowing and Matt Cooke tweeting "how many times is this guy going to do this?"

I'm not looking to be mad at the player. I liked Lupul but guys like him and Toews are acting like idiots. The PA hires guys like Goodenow and Fehr,and then act indignant about being locked out.

And as Hurt pointed out, it's not a real 50/50 that the PA offered. If they offer the same thing today (and I'll be surprised if they don't) this thing will continue and we'll get more tweets from players acting innocent saying that they just want to play hockey but the big, bad, evil owners won't let them.
Well the owners enforced a cap, enforced a 24% rollback, signed contracts under the terms of the CBA they dictated and now have no intention of honouring their contracts and won't negotiate a deal.

Oh, and why do you think players should not have the right to speak their minds?

But you do have it right in that the lock-out is all about the owners. There is no NHL right now because of the owners. That is the truth and you can't spin it any other way.

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11-19-2012, 09:35 AM
  #125
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Well the owners enforced a cap, enforced a 24% rollback, signed contracts under the terms of the CBA they dictated and now have no intention of honouring their contracts and won't negotiate a deal.

Oh, and why do you think players should not have the right to speak their minds?

But you do have it right in that the lock-out is all about the owners. There is no NHL right now because of the owners. That is the truth and you can't spin it any other way.
Welcome to Socialism in the NHL !!!.

The players are simply cattle, and a means for the Owners to pad their billions$$, with limited rights to those that actually allow them to earn them, or concern for those that actually pay them both.

Last CBA the Owners locked out the players and cried that they needed cost certainty and a hard cap system in order to make money, that they claimed would solve all their problems. They agreed to 57% player costs stating that would allow that, and in trade-off to a hard cap players got greater individual rights like earlier free agent status for cost certainty for their partners.

Now 7 years later with a fully functioning cap system, the Owners are crying "poor me" again as greed seems to have gotten the better of them. So again lets lock out the cattle and cut into their share, and claw back their rights, and lets do it and hold the hockey world hostage again until they get what they want.

The Owners apparently have no intention of honouring contracts they signed nor previous CBA terms they agreed to in order to get their salary cap originally.

So Donald Fehr should tell Bettman that if he wants all player rights to go back to pre-cap era then lets take the hard salary cap off the table in exchange. Bettman can then allow his Owners to pay as much or as little as they want on entertainment costs to guarantee they all make profits, and the big rich teams spending more can be luxuary taxed to revenue share with his small market poorer teams. Hockey is back on the ice and everyone is happy. You know something like Baseball's CBA which Fehr successfully negotiated in the past.


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