HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Which trade was worse, Kessel to TOR or Carter to CLB?

View Poll Results: Which trade was worse?
Phil Kessel to Toronto 183 57.19%
Jeff Carter to Columbus 125 39.06%
Both are equally bad and I can't choose just one 12 3.75%
Voters: 320. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-19-2012, 11:40 AM
  #1
MapleLeafsFan4Ever
Go Leafs Go
 
MapleLeafsFan4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,575
vCash: 500
Which trade was worse, Kessel to TOR or Carter to CLB?

When it comes to recent trades a lot of people like to say one of the worst ones was the Phil Kessel trade to Toronto based on what Boston ended up getting. However I'm wondering is that trade actually worse then Jeff Carter to Columbus trade?

We all know Boston traded Phil Kessel to Toronto for a 2010 1st round pick, (Tyler Seguin) 2010 2nd round pick (Jared Knight) and a 2011 1st round pick (Dougie Hamilton). However from the Maple Leafs side no one can doubt Kessel hasn't played great because his points have gone up each of his first three years in Toronto.

However Columbus aquired Jeff Carter from Philadelphia for a 2011 1st round pick (Sean Couturier) 2011 3rd round pick (Nick Cousins) and Jakub Voracek. Plus it was basically known that Carter was not happy with the trade and eventually during the 2011-2012 season he was then traded to Los Angeles and only played 39 games for Columbus.

So based on all of that which trade do you think was worse?

MapleLeafsFan4Ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 11:49 AM
  #2
Mctopchowda
Registered User
 
Mctopchowda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,944
vCash: 500
Kessel by a good margin. CLB mitigated some of the damages when they traded him to LA.

Ofcourse noone could have predicted TML lost out on Seguin and Hamiliton, the same argument can be made about Courtier

Seguin>Coutier
Hamilton>> Voracek
knight=cousins? not to familiar

Of course Kessel is better than Carter, but what they have up to get him is by far more than what it took to get Carter

Mctopchowda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 11:49 AM
  #3
Vankiller Whale
Fire Benning
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,250
vCash: 1815
It depends on who Columbus picks with LA's 1st.

Vankiller Whale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 11:52 AM
  #4
MapleLeafsFan4Ever
Go Leafs Go
 
MapleLeafsFan4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
It depends on who Columbus picks with LA's 1st.
Chances are it will be between 20th-30th overall, so it won't be as high profile.

However forgetting what Columbus got for Carter can we just focus on the two trades I mentioned.

MapleLeafsFan4Ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 11:58 AM
  #5
Crisp Breakout
Registered User
 
Crisp Breakout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 5,205
vCash: 500
I don't think this will even be a close call in a few years.

Crisp Breakout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 11:59 AM
  #6
Mctopchowda
Registered User
 
Mctopchowda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,944
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Chances are it will be between 20th-30th overall, so it won't be as high profile.

However forgetting what Columbus got for Carter can we just focus on the two trades I mentioned.
Isnt that sort of relevant to the trade tho, CBJ getting peices for Carter. Maybe its not asked in the OP but say Kessel was traded for Getzlaf and Fowler then TML would say they lost Seguin and Hamilton for Getzlaf and Fowler

Mctopchowda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:02 PM
  #7
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Carter to Columbus. If they did not make that trade but still traded Nash for depth, assuming (unrealistically, sure) that everything else was constant, their lineup today would be pretty nice.

Prospal-Johanson-Voracek
Dubinsky-Brassard-Umberger
Foligno-Anisimov-Atkinson
Mackenzie-Couturier-Dorsett

Murray-Wiz
Tin-Tin
Moore-Acouin
Savard

Just need a goalie and that`s a playoff team.

StringerBell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:05 PM
  #8
Tim Vezina Thomas
Dougie Time
 
Tim Vezina Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,960
vCash: 500
Depends really. Leafs got a great player, but the Bruins got two cornerstones of their future in the deal. One is already a 20 year old 67 point scorer, and one of if not the best D prospect in the game. Plus I'm very confident Knight will be a solid bottom six contributor (dont see him being any more than that tho).

Columbus ultimately traded Voracek, Courtier and a 3rd for Jack Johnson and a 1st, which is slightly in the Flyers favor IMO.

I dunno, I think both the Blue Jackets and Leafs would have been better off holding onto their picks, so I'm gonna say not sure.

Tim Vezina Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:09 PM
  #9
Pay Carl
don't lose touch
 
Pay Carl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vermont
Country: United States
Posts: 10,490
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Chances are it will be between 20th-30th overall, so it won't be as high profile.

However forgetting what Columbus got for Carter can we just focus on the two trades I mentioned.
not necessarily if there is a lockout, maybe the hockey Gods will spare Columbus

Pay Carl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:10 PM
  #10
oilersfan11
Registered User
 
oilersfan11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 12,103
vCash: 50
Toronto ,AINEC!





Kessel

for

Two franchise players


Yikes!

oilersfan11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:16 PM
  #11
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Toronto ,AINEC!





Kessel

for

Two franchise players


Yikes!
Is Dougie Hamilton already a franchise player?

StringerBell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:24 PM
  #12
Kezia
egg
 
Kezia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Kingston
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,863
vCash: 50
Seguin > kessel
Seguin, Hamilton, Knight >> Kessel

Kezia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:25 PM
  #13
MapleLeafsFan4Ever
Go Leafs Go
 
MapleLeafsFan4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Toronto ,AINEC!





Kessel

for

Two franchise players


Yikes!
Since Dougie Hamilton hasn't played 1 NHL game isn't it early to call him a franchise player? Top prospect and best Defensman not play yet in the NHL is fine. However saying Hamilton is a franchise player is pushing it and yet others say Leafs fans overhype our prospects.

MapleLeafsFan4Ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:26 PM
  #14
Kyle Doobas*
#groovystats
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,689
vCash: 159
Yes! Another 34-page debate about the Kessel trade!

Kyle Doobas* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:43 PM
  #15
MapleLeafsFan4Ever
Go Leafs Go
 
MapleLeafsFan4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wKetch22 View Post
not necessarily if there is a lockout, maybe the hockey Gods will spare Columbus
The NHL would then look at the Kings record from the 2011-2012 season if the lockout effects the 2013 Draft. Since the Kings won the Stanley Cup that year chances are it would give Columbus the 30th overall pick in the 2013 Draft.

During the 2005 Draft Lottery Tampa Bay was given the 30th pick overall coming off their 2004 Stanley Cup.

MapleLeafsFan4Ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:46 PM
  #16
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,905
vCash: 50
Personally, I think it was the Carter trade. Kessel is at least an elite player. Carter is not. Man, if Columbus hadn't made the Carter trade they could have a future 1-2 center punch of Johansen and Couturier, and then that awesome young d-corps of Murray, Erixon, Nikitin, Savard, Moore, etc.

Atkinson-Johansen-Voracek
Dubinsky-Couturier-Anisimov
Foligno-Brassard-Umberger
4th line

Murray-Erixon
Tyutin-Nikitin
Wiz-one of the other kids

And that's a nice young group of players.

TheJuxtaposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:56 PM
  #17
I Hate Chris Butler
Backlund Fan Club
 
I Hate Chris Butler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Saskatchewan
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,204
vCash: 150
Couturier is already a contributing player on the Flyers and is CRUCIAL to their special teams; I'd go as far as to say he'd be the #1 centre in Columbus right now. Voracek is Voracek.

Columbus doesn't even have Carter any more, and instead they have Jack Johnson when they already signed one physical, offensive defenseman in Wisniewski.

EDIT: LOL @ the Kessel trade having the most votes. Only one player in that trade has made the NHL for Boston, and Kessel is the best player in the trade AINEC.

I Hate Chris Butler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:56 PM
  #18
Pay Carl
don't lose touch
 
Pay Carl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vermont
Country: United States
Posts: 10,490
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
The NHL would then look at the Kings record from the 2011-2012 season if the lockout effects the 2013 Draft. Since the Kings won the Stanley Cup that year chances are it would give Columbus the 30th overall pick in the 2013 Draft.

During the 2005 Draft Lottery Tampa Bay was given the 30th pick overall coming off their 2004 Stanley Cup.
I dont think so

Pretty sure Kings could een have their pick go first overall since if its a full lockout supposedly every team can go first overall

Pay Carl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:57 PM
  #19
MapleLeafsFan4Ever
Go Leafs Go
 
MapleLeafsFan4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wKetch22 View Post
I dont think so

Pretty sure Kings could een have their pick go first overall since if its a full lockout supposedly every team can go first overall
The odds of that happening is very slim because they would still go by the Kings record and not the Blue Jackets.

MapleLeafsFan4Ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 01:01 PM
  #20
PayItForward
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
The NHL would then look at the Kings record from the 2011-2012 season if the lockout effects the 2013 Draft. Since the Kings won the Stanley Cup that year chances are it would give Columbus the 30th overall pick in the 2013 Draft.

During the 2005 Draft Lottery Tampa Bay was given the 30th pick overall coming off their 2004 Stanley Cup.
Unless you believe in conspiracies, the NHL didn't give Tampa Bay the 30th pick, that's just where their ball wound up being chosen. The Kings pick could be anywhere from 1st to 30th if there's a lottery. The only thing the NHL controls are how many balls each team has.

They don't go by record, they go by playoff appearances (not Stanley Cups) and 1st overall picks.

The Kings would have just as good of a chance to win the lottery as the Oilers.

PayItForward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 01:02 PM
  #21
Pay Carl
don't lose touch
 
Pay Carl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vermont
Country: United States
Posts: 10,490
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
The odds of that happening is very slim because they would still go by the Kings record and not the Blue Jackets.
Unless im mistaken the Kings would have the same chance as a lot of teams ie: Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Pitts, etc

I dont remember who exactly has how many chances, but some teams like Toronto and Columbus have the best chances with 3 balls in the lottery, where as Kings, Bruins, etc only get 1

Pay Carl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 01:05 PM
  #22
MapleLeafsFan4Ever
Go Leafs Go
 
MapleLeafsFan4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
Unless you believe in conspiracies, the NHL didn't give Tampa Bay the 30th pick, that's just where their ball wound up being chosen. The Kings pick could be anywhere from 1st to 30th if there's a lottery. The only thing the NHL controls are how many balls each team has.

They don't go by record, they go by playoff appearances (not Stanley Cups) and 1st overall picks.

The Kings would have just as good of a chance to win the lottery as the Oilers.
The Kings would only get 1 ball. If it's based on recent Playoff apperances the Kings made them in 2010, 2011 and 2012. Assuming they use the same rules as the 2005 Draft Lottery and the NHL doesn't have anything else to go on.

MapleLeafsFan4Ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 01:05 PM
  #23
Hammer Time
Registered User
 
Hammer Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,910
vCash: 500
In Kessel the Leafs at least got a point-per-game player.

In Carter the Blue Jackets got an unhappy player who was gone within 4 months.

So essentially the Jackets dropped Voracek and Couturier for Jack Johnson. That has to be worse.

Hammer Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 01:06 PM
  #24
MapleLeafsFan4Ever
Go Leafs Go
 
MapleLeafsFan4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wKetch22 View Post
Unless im mistaken the Kings would have the same chance as a lot of teams ie: Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Pitts, etc

I dont remember who exactly has how many chances, but some teams like Toronto and Columbus have the best chances with 3 balls in the lottery, where as Kings, Bruins, etc only get 1
Yes that is correct.

MapleLeafsFan4Ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 01:08 PM
  #25
PayItForward
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
The Kings would only get 1 ball. If it's based on recent Playoff games the Kings made them in 2010, 2011 and 2012. Assuming they use the same rules as the 2005 Draft Lottery and the NHL doesn't have anything else to go on.
... that's what I said? The Kings would have 1 ball but that ball could be chosen at any time. It could be first, it could be last, it could anywhere in between.

And Edmonton would have 1 ball due to their 3 consecutive 1st overalls, if that's what your referring to.

The team with the best chance to be 1st overall is actually Columbus. They'll technically have 5 balls, 3 of their own, New York Ranger's ball and LA's ball.

PayItForward is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.