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General UFC/MMA/boxing discussion - Bute vs. Pascal?

View Poll Results: Who wins a fight between Lucian Bute and Jean Pascal ?
Lucian Bute 9 36.00%
Jean Pascal 15 60.00%
Draw 1 4.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-18-2012, 05:51 PM
  #226
PhysicX
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
My decision is simple. Silva has better striking in every sense of the word, faster, more powerful, more accurate. He is bigger than GSP, likewise for his reach, he is dangerous both on top and on the bottom when on the ground.
How can something so simple be so hard to understand for some people?

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11-18-2012, 05:55 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Oh right, it's Lutter that gassed, otherwise he'd have won.
And then it's Sonnen that made a mistake, otherwise he'd have won.

Sure, it's their fault, Silva had nothing to do with it of course. Lutter just gassed out by himself and Sonnen just gave his arm to Silva and asked him to submit him.

As for the rest, really..? Not even going to address that.


As for Hughes, he fought at a time where his competition wasn't really amazing.
He lost to BJ, then fought guys like Verrissimo, a green GSP, Joe freaking Riggs...I mean come on..I'm supposed to be impressed?
I never said Lutter would have won, but he was in control of the fight for the most part.

Sonnen got caught, it happens, its mma...But he got caught against Anderson Silva, not some nobody.

When it comes to Hughes, I actually don't like the guy, but come on.

- 2nd all time in WW title defences.
- Has never lost to a fighter with a losing record.
- Fight record includes: GSPx3, Menne, Hallmanx2, Gono, Doerkson, Newtonx2, Sakurai, Sherk, Triggx2, Pennx3, Alves, Lytle, Gracie, Almeida, Serra, Koscheck.
- When he fought Verissimo, Verissimo was an undefeated fighter, not saying he was some great, but was still undefeated.

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11-18-2012, 06:00 PM
  #228
ChoseLa
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Actualy GSP said that Silva can change his weight very easily. While GSP can't. He also said that between weight day and fight day Silva could gain back a lot of weight, something GSP can't do.

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Old
11-18-2012, 08:16 PM
  #229
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Old
11-18-2012, 09:54 PM
  #230
Montreal Impact FC
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If anything its silva that should try to fight gsp and try to reach his weight not try to meet in the middle.. gsp is 5'11 vs 6'2 evenif gsp is as talented or very close those stats will always put him in a disadvantage.

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Old
11-18-2012, 10:08 PM
  #231
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
I never said Lutter would have won, but he was in control of the fight for the most part.

Sonnen got caught, it happens, its mma...But he got caught against Anderson Silva, not some nobody.

When it comes to Hughes, I actually don't like the guy, but come on.

- 2nd all time in WW title defences.
- Has never lost to a fighter with a losing record.
- Fight record includes: GSPx3, Menne, Hallmanx2, Gono, Doerkson, Newtonx2, Sakurai, Sherk, Triggx2, Pennx3, Alves, Lytle, Gracie, Almeida, Serra, Koscheck.
- When he fought Verissimo, Verissimo was an undefeated fighter, not saying he was some great, but was still undefeated.
Lutter was in control of the fight? You mean what? He won the first round and then lost in the 2nd??

Sonnen didn't just get caught, he also got KOd in the rematch. Did Sonnen dominate because he was too much for Silva?? If that were the case, I don't see how he could do so poorly in a rematch.
I think Silva wanted to fight on the ground at some point and wanted to find a submission, which is why he barely defended the takedowns and didn't try to get up all that much.
Surely, if it only was a dumb mistake by Sonnen, he'd come back to dominate again. That didn't happen though.

As for Hughes, I'm not saying he was a crappy fighter. I'm saying he was overrated. Some guys were calling him one of the most dominant Champs of all time, including White (marketing of course..). He fought some good fighters, but I don't think his division was that challenging.

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Old
11-18-2012, 10:14 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
I find those elbows to the side of the head VERY dangerous.

The pterion on the side of the skull is probably one of the most fragile parts of our body. If it breaks, there is an artery (middle meningeal artery) that could rupture and lead to a cerebral hemorrhage.

Just my 2 cents on that, nobody would even realize that is happening until the fighter, which in this case is Condit, has passed out due to lowered blood pressure.

Apart from that, sick fight.

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Old
11-18-2012, 10:25 PM
  #233
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Montreal Impact FC View Post
If anything its silva that should try to fight gsp and try to reach his weight not try to meet in the middle.. gsp is 5'11 vs 6'2 evenif gsp is as talented or very close those stats will always put him in a disadvantage.
Silva can't drop to 170. That's too much of a drop.

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11-18-2012, 10:50 PM
  #234
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Listen, I love GSP, he stands a puncher's chance against Anderson, and that's it. Anderson is far superior on the ground, striking, kicks, size, reach... it's a bad matchup all the way around.
Anderson Silva is simply not superior, much less far superior on the ground to GSP. "The ground" is a lot more than BJJ, and even in that respect, I don't think A. Silva is superior to GSP. Furthermore, GSP could be training with guys like Jon Danaher, Renzo Gracie, and Braulio Estima for the ground game.

However, the most important aspect in MMA, happens to be the transition game: not striking, and not ground. If you decide where the fight happens, your chances of winning increase drastically. GSP is clearly superior to Anderson in the transition game.

And lastly, you're double-charging for things Silva is superior in. Kicking is striking. Size implies reach. When you boil it down, Silva's better at striking(by a big margin), and he's bigger.

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...and please, that Sonnen moment where he was winning the fight... that didn't end well in that matchup, and did you see how Anderson adjusted for the rematch? Sonnen wasn't even in it...
Nor did things end up well for Henderson, or Marquardt. The fact of the matter is though, that these last two, especially, were the only ones who were able to win a round off A.Silva in a long time. They both used the same strategy, a strategy that GSP can do better.

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If it was the final fight for GSP, I would understand it, make a massive amount of cash and hang it up.. but ... playing the angle that it's a 'Good Matchup' is just silly, because it isn't .. nor will it ever will be.
When did I say that it was a good match up? Silva isn't a good matchup for anyone. I said it was possible for GSP to beat him, and not only is it possible, the strategy is already there for him to exploit.

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Old
11-18-2012, 11:33 PM
  #235
NotProkofievian
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Silva can't drop to 170. That's too much of a drop.
I can't remember exactly, but UFC title fights are not able to be contested at an agreed upon catch weight, correct?

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Old
11-19-2012, 12:16 AM
  #236
ChoseLa
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Silva competed at 168 a couple of years ago.

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11-19-2012, 01:39 AM
  #237
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Yes silva is incredibly good... But 4 years ago Silva was fighting guys like Patrick Coté while GSP was fighting Hughes, Serra and Penn.

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11-19-2012, 01:56 AM
  #238
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Silva's last legit loss. The man is not invincible and some people seem to think he is. Also a reminder that even if GSP is smaller it's not the end of the world for him.

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Old
11-19-2012, 05:58 AM
  #239
IceDaddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
I can't remember exactly, but UFC title fights are not able to be contested at an agreed upon catch weight, correct?

That is correct. It would be 170 or 185 for one of the titles. Any catch weight fight would not be for the titles....

IMO the only way for GSP to win is to use his wrestling and keep it against the cage and then grind him on the ground for 25 minutes.

Silva size and reach is just too much to handle....

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Old
11-19-2012, 07:47 AM
  #240
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Yes silva is incredibly good... But 4 years ago Silva was fighting guys like Patrick Coté while GSP was fighting Hughes, Serra and Penn.
Is that supposed to be an argument?

I'm starting to wonder if some people actually understand what is being done when those guys fight.

I don't see how anybody would give the advantage to GSP. It really makes no sense at all.

You're also being dishonest. Silva wasn't just fighting Coté, he also was going up against guys like Henderson, Franklin, and making jumps to fight guys like Irvin and Griffin.
And Matt Serra is not a name that is impressive, GSP losing to him was embarrassing. BJ Penn in his first fight also messed up GSP, many thought BJ should have won that fight.
Not to take anything away from GSP, he owned every opponent after that fight.
But Silva would be a clear favorite if that fight were to happen.

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Old
11-19-2012, 07:52 AM
  #241
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
Silva competed at 168 a couple of years ago.
A couple of years ago? No, you mean more than a decade ago.

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Old
11-19-2012, 10:50 AM
  #242
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This thread is hilarious.

Take off your homer goggles please, it's pretty apparent that even GSP wants no piece of Silva unless Anderson is willing to drain himself to 170 (which would be absolutely retarded for guy who's 37 years old).

Bottom line is, GSP's has always been considered as one of the best wrestler in the game because he was bigger and stronger than every single one of his opponent. Against Silva he would be much smaller and wouldn't have this advantage. Unless GSP comes up with the perfect fight, he would most likely get knocked out.

It's great that a local guy is one of the best UFC fighter in history, but we need to stop being dellusionnal. Anderson Silva belongs with Ray Robinson and Ali.

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11-19-2012, 11:57 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Anderson Silva is simply not superior, much less far superior on the ground to GSP. "The ground" is a lot more than BJJ, and even in that respect, I don't think A. Silva is superior to GSP. Furthermore, GSP could be training with guys like Jon Danaher, Renzo Gracie, and Braulio Estima for the ground game.
Unless we share a remote assessment on Anderson's ground game, this is dead end argument.

Quote:
However, the most important aspect in MMA, happens to be the transition game: not striking, and not ground. If you decide where the fight happens, your chances of winning increase drastically. GSP is clearly superior to Anderson in the transition game.
Anderson will dictate where this fight goes, as he always does. You think GSP is going to do the same takedowns on Anderson he does against the smaller WW? He'll get a face full of feet and fists.

Quote:
And lastly, you're double-charging for things Silva is superior in. Kicking is striking. Size implies reach. When you boil it down, Silva's better at striking(by a big margin), and he's bigger.
Anderson is a better fighter in every aspect, besides.. say.. wrestling. His BJJ is some of the best, his striking is top notch.. and he would have an enormous reach advantage.

Quote:
Nor did things end up well for Henderson, or Marquardt. The fact of the matter is though, that these last two, especially, were the only ones who were able to win a round off A.Silva in a long time. They both used the same strategy, a strategy that GSP can do better.
GSP isn't going to anything better on the ground than Dan Henderson, I hate to break it to you.

Quote:
I said it was possible for GSP to beat him, and not only is it possible, the strategy is already there for him to exploit.
... and I said Georges has a punchers chance. George couldn't even submit Dan Hardy, he couldn't lock in the stupid arm-bar. You think he's going to GNP Anderson to a decision?

Why isn't Anderson moving up to fight Jones, someone his own size? Wouldn't that make more sense?

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11-19-2012, 02:33 PM
  #244
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After seeing the gsp doc on radio-canada & all the interviews after the condit fight I have the feeling he doesn't want to fight Silva and we can't really blame him.

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11-19-2012, 02:44 PM
  #245
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Why isn't Anderson moving up to fight Jones, someone his own size? Wouldn't that make more sense?
He just might. He changed his opinion and said he'd be open to it. He's waiting on Dana White to tell him what he prefers, Jones or GSP.

Personally, I think we'd have a much more entertaining fight in Silva vs Jones, with Silva still coming out as the victor.
GSP vs Silva isn't such a great match up, GSP has very little chance to come out of it on top. Not quite fair.

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11-19-2012, 02:47 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
After seeing the gsp doc on radio-canada & all the interviews after the condit fight I have the feeling he doesn't want to fight Silva and we can't really blame him.
He never seemed enthused by the idea, and that's because he knows he has very little chance of winning such a fight. Most people (outside blinded fans, no offense to them) know this, Dana White knows it, so I'm sure GSP and his entourage also know it.


Last edited by Kriss E: 11-19-2012 at 03:13 PM.
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Old
11-19-2012, 02:49 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
He never seemed enthused by the idea, and that's because he knows he has very little chance of winning such a fight. Most people (outside blinding fans, no offense to them) know this, Dana White knows it, so I'm sure GSP and his entourage also know it.
This and he want to go out on top (he already his) and it could be sooner than we think!

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Old
11-19-2012, 02:58 PM
  #248
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I can't believe that on a hockey board people don't see that sometimes things are more than the sum of their parts. These are 2 Goliath's of the sport going at it and yes Silva has the size and reach advantage but GSP is only 4 cm's smaller then Silva in reach even if Silva's over 4 inches taller. Also how can anyone say Silva is faster? I find he moves around a lot more but that doesn't mean he's fast, its just his style, GSP is lightning quick and when it comes to strength I wouldn't give either the advantage. I think Silva is a better striker and GSP the better wrestler and better at take downs but they are both good at both so IMO it would come down to who has the better strategy and can dictate the fight.

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11-19-2012, 03:28 PM
  #249
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GSP would need a long term strategic plan to get to 185 or any catch weight there about. If he does it, he's not going to jump weight for one fight, it'd be a permanent change to his game. One I don't think he wants to make. At best this fight is a year or two away. I don't see it being in GSP's interest at all. Nothing against GSP, he's outstanding, but there isn't a chance he'd go into this fight with a 50-50 chance or being a favorite. Having said that, I guess anything is possible, but the deck would be heavily stacked against him.

Sonnen is way bigger and a better wrestler. Sonnen doesn't have the skills GSP has in other areas though, but the idea that GSP would maul Silva because a much bigger and superior wrestler did so is wishful thinking. Sonnen is as elite a wrestler as there is, the problem with Sonnen is that he takes unnecessary risks that GSP wouldn't take, but in the end GSP wouldn't throw Silva around like he does WW's, no chance.

He had top position against Condit all night long, but was unable to inflict any major damage aside from the short elbow early. From a damage standpoint Condit held his own imo. Now damage isn't a scoring criteria and GSP definitely owned control of the fight, but he was unable to impose himself on Condit, I don't think he would have a chance against Silva, but anything is possible. He would have to work for take downs like he's never worked before, and would most likely endure plenty of damage of his own just to get to the ground.

This is a match up nightmare for GSP as it is for anyone fighting Silva, but the size difference compounds this for GSP. Silva would have a tougher time against lesser skilled MW's imo.

Anybody with a serious understanding of the sport would not favour GSP in this matchup, sorry.

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Old
11-19-2012, 03:35 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
He just might. He changed his opinion and said he'd be open to it. He's waiting on Dana White to tell him what he prefers, Jones or GSP.

Personally, I think we'd have a much more entertaining fight in Silva vs Jones, with Silva still coming out as the victor.
GSP vs Silva isn't such a great match up, GSP has very little chance to come out of it on top. Not quite fair.
If Dana gives him the option between both hes easily gonna pick GSP,hes buddy's are contenders to fight Jones ATM hes not gonna take that away from them plus he knows GSP would be a easier opponent and much bigger fight ( marketing wise ) its time to cashout he doesnt have much longer but personally i would be really surprised if St-Pierre takes that fight right now.....Goerge will be fighting Johny Hendricks

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