HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Alec Martinez

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-18-2012, 05:04 PM
  #26
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
I think you are confusing "ready for a look" with being an NHL regular. Just because the Kings have some defensemen in the pipeline, doesnt mean they are NHL worthy.
Well if you give the 4 that are ready a 15 game trial that equals the season pretty much if there is a season that is. Imo 15 game is a fair look at what they can do. Worse case senerio they don't make it. Finding a 6th defenseman at the tradedeadline wouldnt be that hard to find. Best case we find another defenseman at a cheaper rate thus giving us money to go get something if/when we need it. Hicky and muzzin don't have anything left to prove they need to get games this year.

KingCanadain1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 05:09 PM
  #27
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
 
Frolov 6'3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 8,899
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
Well if you give the 4 that are ready a 15 game trial that equals the season pretty much if there is a season that is. Imo 15 game is a fair look at what they can do. Worse case senerio they don't make it. Finding a 6th defenseman at the tradedeadline wouldnt be that hard to find. Best case we find another defenseman at a cheaper rate thus giving us money to go get something if/when we need it. Hicky and muzzin don't have anything left to prove they need to get games this year.
If you dont mind, I rather stick to Doughty-Voynov-Martinez-Mitchell-Scuds-Greene because i know what I can get from them. Not interested in possible rookie mistakes and bad defensive coverage for 75 games long with 4 different players who apparantely have nothing left to prove.

Frolov 6'3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 05:22 PM
  #28
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
If you dont mind, I rather stick to Doughty-Voynov-Martinez-Mitchell-Scuds-Greene because i know what I can get from them. Not interested in possible rookie mistakes and bad defensive coverage for 75 games long with 4 different players who apparantely have nothing left to prove.
Well that is ur choice and theres nothing wrong with that. This is a thread for the value of alec. The point was raised that there is no reason to trade alec and i respond to a reason as to why he would be traded. This is of course comes down to what Dean and his staff thinks If he thinks Hickey /Muzzin are ready my thinking would be right. If he doesnt then he ll stick with the same defense. Imo im ok with giving them the 12-15mins a night to see what they can do. The have invested alot of time in Hickey and most people are calling him a bust right now which i think we should at least give him a shot before giving up on him. The kings system has developed alot of players. Its time we start giving them a chance and not letting them rot in the ahl. Imo if we start giving our kids shots we will be competing for cups for years but they need to get nhl games in to see what they can do should we need them *(injures)

KingCanadain1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 05:59 PM
  #29
Dr Quincy
Registered User
 
Dr Quincy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I do value your opinion on the kings defense and i ll agree with muzzin proberly the best of them coming but untill they get a look in the nhl no one knows on how good they would be or not. There has been defenseman that something just clicks when they get into nhl action. My point being if they never get a game you will never know. Bodnarchuk right now is the best most consistant defenseman on the monarchs. He is the hitting defenseman that the kings lack ( theres some kings fans thinking we need this not me thou ) I ve watched him play this year and hes hitting players with good soild hits and playing soild defensive play.

I disagree with ur value on martinez. He is the kings most underrated defenseman. As i stated above he has the best instint on when to join the rush on the kings. He rarely makes mistakes on the defensive end He is also only 25 he will get better. He will develop into a 2nd pairing defenseman if giving the chance to play it. Right now hes stuck on the 3rd pairing due to slava and drew playing ahead of him not because he doesn't have the ability. I would rather see him playing the power play then slava. The was a while this year he was the only defenseman on the pp that was hitting the net consistently. If the kings payed a 2nd for brad richardson then martinez is easily worth that plus a b prospect on his own.
Oh I'm not saying that Martinez is a bad player at all. He's fine. But every year you have 2 bottom line dmen win Stanley Cups. It means they are good enough to play bottom pairing minutes on a really good team, but it doesn't mean they can be more than bottom pairing dmen on most other teams.

I think sometimes think "If this guy is worth x and this guy is worth x then if we package them together we'll get something worth 2x." But it doesn't necessarily work that way. I'd put his value at a 2nd or 3rd like has already been stated.

Also, I don't think Bodnarchuk's future is as a "hitting" dman. He hits for his size, but I don't think he's as physical as a guy like Bouillion, a similarly undersized dman. I've seen him a lot between his days in Providence and now Manchester. I saw him in a couple B's training camps. He's just not an NHL dman. Martinez is. Keep him.

Dr Quincy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 06:31 PM
  #30
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Oh I'm not saying that Martinez is a bad player at all. He's fine. But every year you have 2 bottom line dmen win Stanley Cups. It means they are good enough to play bottom pairing minutes on a really good team, but it doesn't mean they can be more than bottom pairing dmen on most other teams.

I think sometimes think "If this guy is worth x and this guy is worth x then if we package them together we'll get something worth 2x." But it doesn't necessarily work that way. I'd put his value at a 2nd or 3rd like has already been stated.

Also, I don't think 'Bodnarchuks future is as a "hitting" dman. He hits for his size, but I don't think he's as physical as a guy like Bouillion, a similarly undersized dman. I've seen him a lot between his days in Providence and now Manchester. I saw him in a couple B's training camps. He's just not an NHL dman. Martinez is. Keep him.
Oh ok well to me suggesting a player is worth a 3rd is the same as saying he sucks. I really do like having Martinez despite me saying i would be ok with tradeing him. I willing to say Alec has more talent then any of the last cup winners imo. I was only useing richardson as a base of why i think hes worth a mid 2nd and B prospect.

As for Bodnarchuks furture i'm confortable in saying most of the talk on the kings board and i ve heard from there own annousers are saying hes playing the best all round game on the monarchs roster. This is why i encluded him in players ready for a look. From what i`ve seen frist hand if the kings are needing a hitting defenseman he is the best of what we got in house.

KingCanadain1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 06:56 PM
  #31
stempniaksen
Alright, I'm mad
 
stempniaksen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,647
vCash: 50
Sens will give you a 4th, may be willing to boost it up to a 3rd if Borowiecki, Wiercicoch and Benoit end up sucking the early part of the season (if there is one) away.

stempniaksen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 06:58 PM
  #32
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
Sens will give you a 4th, may be willing to boost it up to a 3rd if Borowiecki, Wiercicoch and Benoit end up sucking the early part of the season (if there is one) away.
No thanks alec is worth alot more then that.

KingCanadain1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 07:58 PM
  #33
Intense Rage
Registered User
 
Intense Rage's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,730
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
No thanks alec is worth alot more then that.
Well then you will not like the responses on this thread.

I think you value him appropriately as a Kings fan and probably expect him to have more trade value. The truth is though you will not see anything in the following posts that will warrant moving Martinez. A 3rd round pick is what will be offered, even a 2nd would be pushing it slightly. He is just not worth that much in a trade.

Intense Rage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 08:24 PM
  #34
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Well then you will not like the responses on this thread.

I think you value him appropriately as a Kings fan and probably expect him to have more trade value. The truth is though you will not see anything in the following posts that will warrant moving Martinez. A 3rd round pick is what will be offered, even a 2nd would be pushing it slightly. He is just not worth that much in a trade.
I think that in the hf forums most people tend to look at stats and not really see each player play and base value off that ( not saying u do or don't) They simply can't see every game of every team This is the case when it comes to alec people simple need to see him play to realize hes got more potential then a 6th defenseman. He is just settleing in a a regualar because over the last couple years the kings been trying to find him a spot to play regually. People also need to take this into consideration.La has alot of great defenseman not his fault he s not getting the mins his talent deserves. This is also a value thread not what he ll get thread big difference between the two.


Last edited by KingCanadain1976: 11-18-2012 at 08:35 PM.
KingCanadain1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 08:44 PM
  #35
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Well then you will not like the responses on this thread.

I think you value him appropriately as a Kings fan and probably expect him to have more trade value. The truth is though you will not see anything in the following posts that will warrant moving Martinez. A 3rd round pick is what will be offered, even a 2nd would be pushing it slightly. He is just not worth that much in a trade.
oh also would like to say there was only two offers in this thread and i wasnt disapointed by the other one of drownie just wasnt the right player fit in la.

KingCanadain1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 10:03 PM
  #36
Rorschach
Fearful Symmetry
 
Rorschach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 6,670
vCash: 500
Kings only need two things and don't have a need to trade any piece of our complete defense corps right now. The first need is a true vet backup goalie for when Bernier is traded, which is a small need and not worth trading our young, full time NHL PMD. The second need is a good, two-way or stay-at-home top 4 defender to replace either Scuds or Mitchell in a year or two.

I'd be willing to package Martinez with our other two decent tradable assets into some kind of package deal for that kind of player.

Rorschach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 11:22 PM
  #37
Legionnaire
Kill! Jeff, Kill!!!
 
Legionnaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: LA-LA Land
Country: United States
Posts: 35,489
vCash: 500
"What would you give for some Latin flava on your team?"

What can brown do for you?

__________________
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Legionnaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2012, 11:57 PM
  #38
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
 
King'sPawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 8,246
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I think that in the hf forums most people tend to look at stats and not really see each player play and base value off that ( not saying u do or don't) They simply can't see every game of every team This is the case when it comes to alec people simple need to see him play to realize hes got more potential then a 6th defenseman. He is just settleing in a a regualar because over the last couple years the kings been trying to find him a spot to play regually. People also need to take this into consideration.La has alot of great defenseman not his fault he s not getting the mins his talent deserves. This is also a value thread not what he ll get thread big difference between the two.
Okay, I've seen Martinez play a lot of games, since I am a Kings fan.

If the Kings did not have Alec Martinez, I'd be irritated if they paid more than a 3rd for him. As would most fans, justifiably so.

King'sPawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:04 AM
  #39
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
Okay, I've seen Martinez play a lot of games, since I am a Kings fan.

If the Kings did not have Alec Martinez, I'd be irritated if they paid more than a 3rd for him. As would most fans, justifiably so.
sorry i may not be reading this right. Are you saying if the kings got more then a 3rd for alec you would be upset as a kings fan ? please explain that again ?

KingCanadain1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 12:54 PM
  #40
danaluvsthekings
Registered User
 
danaluvsthekings's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,159
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
sorry i may not be reading this right. Are you saying if the kings got more then a 3rd for alec you would be upset as a kings fan ? please explain that again ?
No, he's saying hypothetically, if Martinez were property of some other team (never had belonged to LA) and that if the Kings needed a bottom pairing defenseman and decided to trade for Martinez, if they gave up more than a 3rd to get Martinez from another team, he wouldn't like the trade much.

And I can kind of see the point. If Martinez had shown he could play top 4 minutes but was just stuck playing on the bottom pair because the Kings are deep on defense, he'd have a lot more value. Is there a team desperate for defense enough that they'll take a gamble and offer more than a mid-round pick? Perhaps.

But if you're the Kings and the best you're going to be offered is a 3rd round pick, you don't move Martinez for a 3rd just to see what some other kids can do. It's potentially creating a hole that doesn't need to be there. Because if the kids can't cut it at the NHL level and you need to go out and trade for a bottom pairing guy, you're going to be giving up that pick you got for Martinez (or more), not to mention odds are they'll be making more than Martinez is. You know what Martinez brings to the team and how he fits in with the locker room.

If you want to make room to see some kids, you let Drewiske go and perhaps platoon Martinez and one of the kids for a few games. Thus, you only need a 7th defenseman if something doesn't work out with the kids.

danaluvsthekings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 01:26 PM
  #41
DrVanntastic
Registered User
 
DrVanntastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wentzville, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 1,885
vCash: 630
He has gotten pretty good in my NHL 13 GM Connected.

People should be lining up to trade a first round pick for him.

DrVanntastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 03:47 PM
  #42
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danaluvsthekings View Post
No, he's saying hypothetically, if Martinez were property of some other team (never had belonged to LA) and that if the Kings needed a bottom pairing defenseman and decided to trade for Martinez, if they gave up more than a 3rd to get Martinez from another team, he wouldn't like the trade much.

And I can kind of see the point. If Martinez had shown he could play top 4 minutes but was just stuck playing on the bottom pair because the Kings are deep on defense, he'd have a lot more value. Is there a team desperate for defense enough that they'll take a gamble and offer more than a mid-round pick? Perhaps.

But if you're the Kings and the best you're going to be offered is a 3rd round pick, you don't move Martinez for a 3rd just to see what some other kids can do. It's potentially creating a hole that doesn't need to be there. Because if the kids can't cut it at the NHL level and you need to go out and trade for a bottom pairing guy, you're going to be giving up that pick you got for Martinez (or more), not to mention odds are they'll be making more than Martinez is. You know what Martinez brings to the team and how he fits in with the locker room.

If you want to make room to see some kids, you let Drewiske go and perhaps platoon Martinez and one of the kids for a few games. Thus, you only need a 7th defenseman if something doesn't work out with the kids.
Frist off thanks for explaining what he ment. Again this is a value thread thats why no names are attached to what id ask. Next again i want to point out i never once said i would trade him for anything short of a 2nd and a "B" prospect I would ask 2nd and "A" prospect Next the only reason i brought up the kings making room for someone is there was a poster or two that asking why would the kings do this. It makes sence to trade martinez if u have someone ready to play in his spot. None of this would happen if they didnt have someone ready. I totally agree davis would have to be let go and platooning with martinez for the the 6th spot would happen before this trade would happen. Sorry if i wasn't clear on that all this would happen frist.

KingCanadain1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 03:51 PM
  #43
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
Okay, I've seen Martinez play a lot of games, since I am a Kings fan.

If the Kings did not have Alec Martinez, I'd be irritated if they paid more than a 3rd for him. As would most fans, justifiably so.
Well i respect ur opinion i have a higher respect for his talent then u do I would have been happy to pay a 2nd and someone like kozan for him if we needed a defenseman and he was available.

KingCanadain1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 03:54 PM
  #44
Cogburn
Registered User
 
Cogburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,814
vCash: 500
He plays right side beside Mitchell right?

Would a 2nd do?

Cogburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 04:00 PM
  #45
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
He plays right side beside Mitchell right?

Would a 2nd do?
No he played mostly with Greene on the 3rd pairing. Well a second is a good start id need a winger prospect with scoring upside or physical defense propect

KingCanadain1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 04:28 PM
  #46
hlaverty06
Registered User
 
hlaverty06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NJ all day
Country: United States
Posts: 7,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
No he played mostly with Greene on the 3rd pairing. Well a second is a good start id need a winger prospect with scoring upside or physical defense propect
So precisely, Martinez is worth way more to you than anyone would be willing to give up....

hlaverty06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 04:40 PM
  #47
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
So precisely, Martinez is worth way more to you than anyone would be willing to give up....
Where he played in the lineup really isnt a reflextion on his ability to play. Its more a reflection on how good the lineup is ahead of him. Again ur ll need to watch him to see the ability. Well there was one person already in this thread willing to give up drownie which i was surprized but thats the quality of player that would be needed. Again Alec is only 25 and just getting started I perdict he will be a 30 point defenseman in the future when/if he gets the 2nd line mins he deserves. Again this is a value thread.

KingCanadain1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 04:52 PM
  #48
hlaverty06
Registered User
 
hlaverty06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NJ all day
Country: United States
Posts: 7,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
Where he played in the lineup really isnt a reflextion on his ability to play. Its more a reflection on how good the lineup is ahead of him. Again ur ll need to watch him to see the ability. Well there was one person already in this thread willing to give up drownie which i was surprized but thats the quality of player that would be needed. Again Alec is only 25 and just getting started I perdict he will be a 30 point defenseman in the future when/if he gets the 2nd line mins he deserves. Again this is a value thread.
yeah but can you give examples of a type of prospect you'd be looking to add to that. Just curious

*NOTE* for other, its not who he wants its just simply for comparison

hlaverty06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 04:59 PM
  #49
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
yeah but can you give examples of a type of prospect you'd be looking to add to that. Just curious

*NOTE* for other, its not who he wants its just simply for comparison
Depends what team but off the top of my head people that had high end sorta talent that cant make or have been busts in teams eyes torontos kadri comes to mind has had a chance but seems to need a chance of scenery. again not saying him but something like that. or propects that are going to be either booms or busts Its hard to say actual prospects without knowing a team and doing reasearch on them


Last edited by KingCanadain1976: 11-19-2012 at 05:00 PM. Reason: just thought of one omark from edmonton
KingCanadain1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 05:16 PM
  #50
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
yeah but can you give examples of a type of prospect you'd be looking to add to that. Just curious

*NOTE* for other, its not who he wants its just simply for comparison
After a little thinking Linus Omark kinda is the type of player i would ask for. Has tons of offensive talent but for whatever reason he won't ever make your team. To me hes a B type propect with the talent to play just needs a new place and time to delvelop his defense side.

KingCanadain1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.