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2012 CBA Discussion Part IV (Lockout talk here)

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11-19-2012, 02:37 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
Right on. It would be fabulous to watch the sport we all love plunge back into total insignifigance, where the only "national" coverage it can get is on the OLN channel. It would be great if being a hockey fan in this town again meant being a punch line. Let's go back to THOSE days.

How anyone that is a fan of the NHL can be rooting for the league to fail in order to prove a point is beyond me.

This isn't necesarily a jab at the quoted poster, but Jesus is this place becoming insufferable. Was it like this during the last lockout, too?
I'm not rooting for the NHL to fail.

However, I want it struggle a bit. I want them to lose enough money because of this lockout, that they'll have to think long and hard about ever doing it AGAIN.

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11-19-2012, 02:37 PM
  #277
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yes because maintaining the status quo and lining these guys' pockets so they can do it all over again in 6 years is a much better solution.

The owners and players need a wakeup call and the only way they'll get it is if the fans stop paying.
Because that worked so well in 2005 when fans turned away in disgust and protest?

The majority came back. It took some longer than others, but most fans returned. Fans protested, came back eventually, and here we are -- again -- with no season.

How does protesting help anything, except depriving yourself of something you enjoy?

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11-19-2012, 02:40 PM
  #278
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I'll bet that everyone on this board will watch when it starts back up. With the exception of dojji, of course.

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11-19-2012, 02:40 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
I'm not rooting for the NHL to fail.

However, I want it struggle a bit. I want them to lose enough money because of this lockout, that they'll have to think long and hard about ever doing it AGAIN.
And that's fair -- but to wish that the ratings get so bad that NBC wants to use their out clause? That literally makes no sense.

I also think you have a different perspective on things living in Canada, where hockey is a national treasure. It's easily pushed aside here in the US in most markets (even in Boston, which is a good hockey market), and I don't know why people would root for it to become mor einsignificant than it already is/has been over my lifetime.

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11-19-2012, 02:41 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
Because that worked so well in 2005 when fans turned away in disgust and protest?

The majority came back. It took some longer than others, but most fans returned. Fans protested, came back eventually, and here we are -- again -- with no season.

How does protesting help anything, except depriving yourself of something you enjoy?
last I looked all four major sports in North America has had work stoppages be it strikes or lockouts, with the NHL missing a season, MLB not playing the World Series, and NFL playing in 1987 with replacement players.

Stuff happens- I'm sure there are individuals that never came back to each sport but overall I think they are fewer than Maple Leafs playoff appearances in the past 10 years.

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11-19-2012, 02:42 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by ap3lovr View Post
The problem with this "narrative" is that it assumes the fans matter in this. We don't matter 1 bit. The NHL doesn't care, and the NHLPA doesn't care. If both sides actually cared about their customers. We would be watching hockey right now. Not having meetings to schedule more meetings.

It doesn't matter what side of the fence any of us are on. Neither side actually cares about the fans. It would be nice to see teams with empty arenas once they open. It would be nice to see TV ratings so low that NBC uses their out clause. The only way either side is going to get the hint that the fans matter is by losing them. Otherwise we will see ourselves back here in another 5-10 years.
Great point regarding the fans as the audience- more importantly though it is the players and owners perceptions of the course of negotiaitions. If the players feel that the deals on the table are reasonable they'd be more likely to push for a resolution than if they think Bettman is negotiating in bad faith.

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11-19-2012, 02:44 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
I'll bet that everyone on this board will watch when it starts back up. With the exception of dojji, of course.
I'd be happy with it being a smaller niche sport in the U.S. when it returns.

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11-19-2012, 02:47 PM
  #283
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didn't Leafs and Habs AHL teams just sellout a game at the Bell Center? 17,000 plus to see Joe Colborne float around (btw- what were the Bruins thinking drafting this guy)...anyways, all Canadian teams will have major interest, most US markets like Boston will, the ten or so weak sisters will continue to be weak, but are banking (litterally) on getting bailed out so they don't bleed to death

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11-19-2012, 02:48 PM
  #284
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I wouldn't say im rooting for the NHL to fail but it would be a little funny, I play hockey myself so it takes away times to watch the games.

Hockey east is really fun to watch and the CHL games on NHL network gets me through plenty, but I would rather watch the Bruins.

I went into the lockout saying they would loose a whole season so I prepared myself before not having the season, last time I came back in '09 I will be back when it ends but its not a big deal to me right now, Crosby can keep whinning that he will not make exactly 8.7 million this year.

One thing that sucks is I was looking forward to getting tickets to the Kings game late december.

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11-19-2012, 02:51 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
didn't Leafs and Habs AHL teams just sellout a game at the Bell Center? 17,000 plus to see Joe Colborne float around (btw- what were the Bruins thinking drafting this guy)...anyways, all Canadian teams will have major interest, most US markets like Boston will, the ten or so weak sisters will continue to be weak, but are banking (litterally) on getting bailed out so they don't bleed to death
They also watched him get his ass handed to him.

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11-19-2012, 02:55 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
And that's fair -- but to wish that the ratings get so bad that NBC wants to use their out clause? That literally makes no sense.

I also think you have a different perspective on things living in Canada, where hockey is a national treasure. It's easily pushed aside here in the US in most markets (even in Boston, which is a good hockey market), and I don't know why people would root for it to become mor einsignificant than it already is/has been over my lifetime.
Well, of course not. I don't want the NHL to go bankrupt. And I WILL still watch when it returns. I love my team too much not to.

But I think the idea of vengeance comes from how offhandedly this lockout came about. The attitude appears to be that it doesn't matter - the fans will return. We can just be dicks and it will be all sorted out shortly. Despite all of the griping from the fans the last time around, it took no time at all for the NHL to pull in record-breaking revenues. I don't want to be treated as a non-factor... But as fans, we really were. And I believe it's a big reason that with so (comparatively) little to argue about this time around, the pithy disagreement has exploded into almost another season entirely lost.

I think we should let it be known that this BS isn't acceptable. And if anything is hurting our sport right now, it's that the people in control of it can't get their **** together. It's a joke. I don't want things to be catastrophic, but I DO want this league to hurt.

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11-19-2012, 02:55 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
I'd be happy with it being a smaller niche sport in the U.S. when it returns.
I'll never understand the whole hipster ego of NHL fans.

I love that there's finally hockey on TV and that there are more people I can talk to about the game and the league.

I love being able to turn on NBCSN or regular NBC some days and watch a hockey game. I don't want to go back to being confined to only watching the Bruins and whoever the Bruins are playing that night.

And I surely dont want to go back to the time where you couldnt catch a Bruins game on at a restaurant or bar because youre the only person there that gave a **** they are on.

Its cool and all being diehard...but back when it was a niche, the only "cool" thing about it was you could buy balcony tickets and end up 3 rows from the glass.

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11-19-2012, 02:57 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
I'd be happy with it being a smaller niche sport in the U.S. when it returns.
Yea, it sure sucked having every playoff game on national TV this year.

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11-19-2012, 03:01 PM
  #289
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IMO, the only ones the NHL/NHLPA owes an apology to is those whose livelihood depends on the league being in operation. The ushers,bartender, waitress', those I feel bad for.

The fans? Meh. My life has gone on.

The only way I would not support the NHL because of a work stoppage would be like the one baseball had in 1994. You play, invest emotion, and $$ in 3/4 of a season, only to have it not have an ending? Now that would piss me off beyond belief.

But missing time from a season that has not started? Life is too short to be pissed about that.

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11-19-2012, 03:06 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
Well, of course not. I don't want the NHL to go bankrupt. And I WILL still watch when it returns. I love my team too much not to.

But I think the idea of vengeance comes from how offhandedly this lockout came about. The attitude appears to be that it doesn't matter - the fans will return. We can just be dicks and it will be all sorted out shortly. Despite all of the griping from the fans the last time around, it took no time at all for the NHL to pull in record-breaking revenues. I don't want to be treated as a non-factor... But as fans, we really were. And I believe it's a big reason that with so (comparatively) little to argue about this time around, the pithy disagreement has exploded into almost another season entirely lost.

I think we should let it be known that this BS isn't acceptable. And if anything is hurting our sport right now, it's that the people in control of it can't get their **** together. It's a joke. I don't want things to be catastrophic, but I DO want this league to hurt.
At the end of the day though, isn't that the truth? And because it is, nothing else in your well-written post matters.

It's annoying. It's infuriating. It's ridiculous. But when it's over, we'll all be back. If you (not YOU, but the general 'you') decide not to come back, then I'll enjoy the shorter lines for the bathroom and beers. And then the team will have success again, and the Garden will be full -- whether it's full of pre or post lockout fans doesn't really matter to owners, as long as it's full. Taking a stand doesn't really accomplish much of anything long-term, again, except depriving yourself of something you enjoy. For owners, it's a short term hit for a long term gain.

I'm a junkie, they have me by the (figurative) balls, and they know it.

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11-19-2012, 03:14 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by BrainOfJ View Post
I'll never understand the whole hipster ego of NHL fans.

I love that there's finally hockey on TV and that there are more people I can talk to about the game and the league.

I love being able to turn on NBCSN or regular NBC some days and watch a hockey game. I don't want to go back to being confined to only watching the Bruins and whoever the Bruins are playing that night.

And I surely dont want to go back to the time where you couldnt catch a Bruins game on at a restaurant or bar because youre the only person there that gave a **** they are on.

Its cool and all being diehard...but back when it was a niche, the only "cool" thing about it was you could buy balcony tickets and end up 3 rows from the glass.
Forget cool- I just don't think they need to turn it into a generic amercian sport a la the NBA- there's no need or demand for teams in columbus and pheonix and there's nothing wrong with the league paying some more attention to the fans it has rather than the fans it wants to attract. . . it'd also be better for the health of the league IMO


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11-19-2012, 03:29 PM
  #292
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Just bought my Beanpot tickets...what NHL?

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11-19-2012, 03:36 PM
  #293
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I'm a junkie, they have me by the (figurative) balls, and they know it.
Owners love reading this ****. They eat it up. I'm hoping you're in the minority. But time will tell.



I took the whole family to the C's game Saturday. Half the time I was there I was wishing I was watching a hockey game.

I'd consider myself a big fan. But since I'm not going next year if they don't play this year, I guess I'm not a "die hard" fan.

If they don't play this year I'll probably be dumping my season tickets as whole packages once the schedule is released...hoping to get cost back. I have a good feeling their 3-4 year wait list will have evaporated.

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11-19-2012, 03:36 PM
  #294
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Burke to join the talks today (What an amazing Commissioner he would be)

Also, Brooks speculating that the PA will offer a linked proposal starting in year 1, which would huge for the negotiations.

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11-19-2012, 03:44 PM
  #295
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Owners love reading this ****. They eat it up. I'm hoping you're in the minority. But time will tell.



I took the whole family to the C's game Saturday. Half the time I was there I was wishing I was watching a hockey game.

I'd consider myself a big fan. But since I'm not going next year if they don't play this year, I guess I'm not a "die hard" fan.

If they don't play this year I'll probably be dumping my season tickets as whole packages once the schedule is released...hoping to get cost back. I have a good feeling their 3-4 year wait list will have evaporated.
When you say 'dumping', do you mean cancelling your tickets, or selling at cost on the secondary market to break even?


Last edited by Kate08: 11-19-2012 at 03:58 PM.
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11-19-2012, 03:58 PM
  #296
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Also, if I'm not in the minorty, what does that accomplish? My seats get sold, at a higher price than I'm currently paying per game? We've had this discussion several times in the ticket thread...given the team's popularity right now, from a business perspective, the team WANTS me to give up my tickets. They can make double per seat at the box office than what they're charging me.

I give up my tickets and am not a STH anymore, now have to scramble to find tickets to games that I want to go to, potentially paying a lot on the secondary market for in demand games like the Vancouver game last year, Black Friday, and playoff tickets. And the trade-off is the team makes double what they currently are getting from my seats.

How does that send a message in any way? I'm the one getting screwed here, not the team or your antichrist Jacobs.

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11-19-2012, 04:24 PM
  #297
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might be a re-post, mods feel free to delete

old B, Kris Versteeg: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409856

Player's be hatin' the ol' Bettman.

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11-19-2012, 04:38 PM
  #298
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Wyshynski has some interesting comments on the Bettman interview. Among them:

Quote:
Said Bettman, regarding revenue sharing:

"The fact is, we have revenue-shared, we do revenue-share and we've offered to increase revenue sharing by more than a third. Our revenue sharing as a percentage of HRR is at least comparable, if not more, than either baseball or basketball. This notion that we're not prepared to revenue-share in a meaningful way is not true."

First off, this … from John Buccigross, on the sport Bettman didn't mention:

Last year, NFL owners shared 60% of 9 billion in revenues while NHL shared 4.5% of 3.3 billion.

Second off, this … from Jeff Klein at the New York Times in August:

Compared with other major professional North American sports leagues, the N.H.L.'s revenue-sharing plan is less extensive. The N.F.L. shares as much as 80 percent of the owners' annual portion of revenues among its teams. In Major League Baseball, 31 percent of all teams' local revenue is subject to revenue sharing, with more money added to the pot each year through additional means. By 2013-14, the N.B.A.'s new deal will include a transfer of $196 million from the richest teams and provide the league's neediest teams up to $16 million each, up from last season's levels of $5.8 million each.

Under the N.H.L.'s current revenue-sharing plan, less than 15 percent of revenue is estimated to be shared among clubs.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...3365--nhl.html

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11-19-2012, 04:48 PM
  #299
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I'll bet that everyone on this board will watch when it starts back up. With the exception of dojji, of course.
Umm, I wouldn't bet on it. I became a big NCAA hockey fan in 2004 because of the last lockout, and I'm s-o-o-o happy to still be a college hockey fan. Go Gophers

NHL? I couldn't care less right now. Kill the whole season- again- for all I care. This league will always be a minor player in the pro sports markets, probably now falling behind NASCAR and maybe even MLS. This 2nd lockout in 8 years won't help the league's reputation in the mind of the casual sports fan. And, as a longtime (lifelong) hockey fan, I'm growing weary of the greed and fast. Get back to playing the damned game already!

I wish that the fans of this sport would stage their own lockout/walkout if the league starts up again. I'd give my left leg to see Opening Night 2013 played in empty arenas. THAT will get the millionaires' attention.

To hell with the NHL. I'll take 18 weekends of college rivalries to 82 non-existent games right now. In truth, if someone offered me my choice between NHL season tickets (Bruins or Wild) or Gophers season tickets, my choice would be college. And it has been my choice since 2004. Always will be.

Lauri from Tacoma
(oh yeah- that market where the NHL supposedly wants to put a team- I'm not holding my breath on that issue either)

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11-19-2012, 04:54 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Lam7825 View Post
Umm, I wouldn't bet on it. I became a big NCAA hockey fan in 2004 because of the last lockout, and I'm s-o-o-o happy to still be a college hockey fan. Go Gophers

NHL? I couldn't care less right now. Kill the whole season- again- for all I care. This league will always be a minor player in the pro sports markets, probably now falling behind NASCAR and maybe even MLS. This 2nd lockout in 8 years won't help the league's reputation in the mind of the casual sports fan. And, as a longtime (lifelong) hockey fan, I'm growing weary of the greed and fast. Get back to playing the damned game already!

I wish that the fans of this sport would stage their own lockout/walkout if the league starts up again. I'd give my left leg to see Opening Night 2013 played in empty arenas. THAT will get the millionaires' attention.

To hell with the NHL. I'll take 18 weekends of college rivalries to 82 non-existent games right now. In truth, if someone offered me my choice between NHL season tickets (Bruins or Wild) or Gophers season tickets, my choice would be college. And it has been my choice since 2004. Always will be.

Lauri from Tacoma
(oh yeah- that market where the NHL supposedly wants to put a team- I'm not holding my breath on that issue either)
I don't believe you and yet you never stated in this post that you will not watch. When it comes back all of us on this board will be watching.

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