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General UFC/MMA/boxing discussion - Bute vs. Pascal?

View Poll Results: Who wins a fight between Lucian Bute and Jean Pascal ?
Lucian Bute 9 36.00%
Jean Pascal 15 60.00%
Draw 1 4.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-19-2012, 03:36 PM
  #251
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by ScottFC View Post
I can't believe that on a hockey board people don't see that sometimes things are more than the sum of their parts. These are 2 Goliath's of the sport going at it and yes Silva has the size and reach advantage but GSP is only 4 cm's smaller then Silva in reach even if Silva's over 4 inches taller. Also how can anyone say Silva is faster? I find he moves around a lot more but that doesn't mean he's fast, its just his style, GSP is lightning quick and when it comes to strength I wouldn't give either the advantage. I think Silva is a better striker and GSP the better wrestler and better at take downs but they are both good at both so IMO it would come down to who has the better strategy and can dictate the fight.
Reach is measured from fingertip to fingertip. You have to be pretty blind not to see the difference in the legs. Also, reach isn't just about a number, it's more about how you use it. GSP doesn't uses his reach only the jab and then cycle, that's it. If he's not doing that, he's busy getting his opponents down. Silva however, uses his reach to punch effectively and stay out of danger, not to mention his leg reach is big as well.
The size of his limbs also make him harder to attack while on the ground and more dangerous off his back.

As for speed, in terms of punches Silva seems to be quicker. Not only that, but the precision of his punches is remarkable.
GSP has fast foot work, but his punching exchanges are that impressive. He will be quick when he'll jump forward to throw a jab and then step back, because of his legs, but that's it.

GSP's only advantage is wrestling, but does he have better takedowns? There's no way to really know seeing how Anderson Silva simply doesn't take his opponents down. When he is on top, he usually inflicts damage, just look at the Henderson fight (nobody had ever punished Henderson on the ground at the time, and he made him his puta. This when Silva was criticized for having a weak ground game).

GSP's only chance is to turn this into a wrestling match right away, like Sonnen, and make sure he doesn't give any chance to Silva on the ground, even off his back, or doesn't take too much damage when he shoots. That's it. Outside of this, it's all Silva.

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Old
11-19-2012, 03:37 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
If Dana gives him the option between both hes easily gonna pick GSP,hes buddy's are contenders to fight Jones ATM hes not gonna take that away from them plus he knows GSP would be a easier opponent and much bigger fight ( marketing wise ) its time to cashout he doesnt have much longer
To me, Silva vs Jones is the bigger draw. Only GSP nuthuggers think he has a chance. Jones-Silva is much closer to a coin flip than gsp- silva.

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11-19-2012, 03:41 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
To me, Silva vs Jones is the bigger draw. Only GSP nuthuggers think he has a chance. Jones-Silva is much closer to a coin flip than gsp- silva.
Silva vs GSP would be a much bigger fight then Silva vs Jones MARKETING WISE...i made sure to use caps since u missed it last time

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11-19-2012, 03:54 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
If Dana gives him the option between both hes easily gonna pick GSP,hes buddy's are contenders to fight Jones ATM hes not gonna take that away from them plus he knows GSP would be a easier opponent and much bigger fight ( marketing wise ) its time to cashout he doesnt have much longer but personally i would be really surprised if St-Pierre takes that fight right now.....Goerge will be fighting Johny Hendricks
Well, I don't think Dana will just ask him to pick one. I think Dana will decide.
As for the time span, Silva said he wants to fight for another 5 years.
A.Silva did go on record to say he'd prefer to fight GSP, but that's not because his friend is lining up to contend Jones, it's because GSP would be an easier task.

But I agree, GSP should fight another time before getting Silva, make sure all that rust is out.

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11-19-2012, 04:07 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
Silva vs GSP would be a much bigger fight then Silva vs Jones MARKETING WISE...i made sure to use caps since u missed it last time
I'm not so sure about that. UFC couldn't even sell out the Bell Center with GSP's return.
GSP doesn't attract as much attention as he once did because he stopped finishing his opponents. A lot of fans can appreciate what is a wrestling clinic, but a lot of casual fans will tune out. Even some wrestling fans will get tired of him always doing the same thing. GSP's game plan has been the same for the past five fights. Some are fed up.

Silva will always draw in more fans because of how dominant he is. Not only does he finish his fighters, but it's as if he does it in a new and more dominant fashion than his previous fight.
Jones is getting a similar reputation. He's unorthodox, and likes to finish.

The only reason why I would think GSP vs Silva would bring in more viewers is because GSP reaches out to Canadians. But as I said, GSP is losing viewers.
A Jones vs Silva fight would be a lot more entertaining though.

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11-19-2012, 04:07 PM
  #256
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Silva vs GSP would be a much bigger fight then Silva vs Jones MARKETING WISE...i made sure to use caps since u missed it last time
And you can use caps all you want, it wouldn't be. The super fight is Jones - Silva.

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11-19-2012, 04:30 PM
  #257
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He just might. He changed his opinion and said he'd be open to it. He's waiting on Dana White to tell him what he prefers, Jones or GSP.

Personally, I think we'd have a much more entertaining fight in Silva vs Jones, with Silva still coming out as the victor.
GSP vs Silva isn't such a great match up, GSP has very little chance to come out of it on top. Not quite fair.
Its the fight that makes much more sense, they match-up well. I think Anderson wins this one too, btw I think he's could dominate LHW or MW at this point.

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11-19-2012, 04:31 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
And you can use caps all you want, it wouldn't be. The super fight is Jones - Silva.
Except for the fact that the PPV numbers show the bigger draw would be GSP v Silva, but don't let facts get in your way

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11-19-2012, 04:38 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
And you can use caps all you want, it wouldn't be. The super fight is Jones - Silva.
I'd be more eager to see a Jones - Silva fight, but i don't see how people in general wouldn't be more drawn by a Silva - GSP fight.

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11-19-2012, 05:03 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
I'd be more eager to see a Jones - Silva fight, but i don't see how people in general wouldn't be more drawn by a Silva - GSP fight.
Is it really that difficult to understand? Both Silva and Jones have been more entertaining than GSP.

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11-19-2012, 05:39 PM
  #261
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Much respect for GSP but he would not stand a chance against Silva.

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11-19-2012, 07:27 PM
  #262
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There is noone in MMA that is overhyped more than Silva. Hes good, but hes not like he is the best ever. GSP stands more a chance than people in this thread give him credit. The reality is if it goes to the ground, GSP has the clear advantage.

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11-19-2012, 08:24 PM
  #263
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There is noone in MMA that is overhyped more than Silva. Hes good, but hes not like he is the best ever. GSP stands more a chance than people in this thread give him credit. The reality is if it goes to the ground, GSP has the clear advantage.
Why would GSP have the advantage on the ground? Silva has fought better wrestlers (who also happened to be bigger) and still beat them up or submitted them.
Silva's ground game is extremely underrated because he never uses it. People just don't see it. Whenever they do, it's versus wrestlers and because he's on his back, most assume he's simply no good. But I what I see, is a guy absolutely comfortable on his back and patiently working to find a submission. He isn't looking to stand up, he barely tries to stuff the takedowns and doesn't look for sweeps. All he does is look for a submission. Most people seem to be oblivious to that and just think his opponent is dominating, and that's because of the judging system, if you take a guy down and stay on top throwing harmless punches, no matter if the guy in the bottom position is actually working just as hard to find a submission, judges will give you the points.

GSP has very little chance to win. And Silva is not overrated, if anything, people are reluctant to give him enough credit. This thread is proof of it.

And out of curiosity, if Silva isn't the greatest p4p ever, who is?

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11-19-2012, 08:48 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
Silva vs GSP would be a much bigger fight then Silva vs Jones MARKETING WISE...i made sure to use caps since u missed it last time
Not with GSP's injury and the aftermath of the Condit performance. Yes he was dominant, but those 30 seconds he got pounded hard made it seem unconvincing and tentative on GSP's side.

IMO, he needs another fight before Silva, both for his mental and for the sake of the upbringing of that super fight.

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11-19-2012, 11:24 PM
  #265
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Great fight, but I really don't want to see GSP fight Anderson... I see no way he can win.
GSP by wrestle****.

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11-20-2012, 12:26 AM
  #266
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There is noone in MMA that is overhyped more than Silva. Hes good, but hes not like he is the best ever. GSP stands more a chance than people in this thread give him credit. The reality is if it goes to the ground, GSP has the clear advantage.
Ask Henderson and Sonnen how that worked out for them. If you think GSP is somehow above either of those two in the wrestling department, you are wrong, plus they are bigger. Fact is, Anderson submitted Chael with a great display of BJJ, and he handled Dan as well.

Sonnen should have won, but you know what? He never. Anderson won't make the mistake again, and looked injured in his first fight with Chael. Watch the second fight again, Sonnen couldn't do anything this time around, Anderson was ready. GSP won't do anything Dan or Sonnen couldn't do, plus Georges doesn't have the power either of those two have.

GSP is great because he is fighting guys in his weight class, and he is a good sized WW. When he lays on guys, they know it.. not the same thing if he were to lay on a 200+ lb Anderson for example. Even Condit's size seemed to give George trouble, the reach... he took a beating.

He's awesome, I'll always love watching GSP fight, I'm a fan.. but hey it's not a good match-up..even a fanboy like me can admit it.

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11-20-2012, 07:53 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm not so sure about that. UFC couldn't even sell out the Bell Center with GSP's return.
GSP doesn't attract as much attention as he once did because he stopped finishing his opponents. A lot of fans can appreciate what is a wrestling clinic, but a lot of casual fans will tune out. Even some wrestling fans will get tired of him always doing the same thing. GSP's game plan has been the same for the past five fights. Some are fed up.

Silva will always draw in more fans because of how dominant he is. Not only does he finish his fighters, but it's as if he does it in a new and more dominant fashion than his previous fight.
Jones is getting a similar reputation. He's unorthodox, and likes to finish.

The only reason why I would think GSP vs Silva would bring in more viewers is because GSP reaches out to Canadians. But as I said, GSP is losing viewers.
A Jones vs Silva fight would be a lot more entertaining though.
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
And you can use caps all you want, it wouldn't be. The super fight is Jones - Silva.
Matchup/Entertainment wise yes Silva Vs Jones all the way i never said the opposite,marketing wise its GSP vs Jones and its not even close.Bones is popular and hes a top pound for pound fighter no doubt in ne one's mind but GSP's name is so much bigger and like you said he has a country behind him,i dont care how much some people been hating on Goerge lately they would all watch that fight if it did happen but yes if he decides to go after Anderson he should deff take another fight before.

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11-20-2012, 08:04 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
Matchup/Entertainment wise yes Silva Vs Jones all the way i never said the opposite,marketing wise its GSP vs Jones and its not even close.Bones is popular and hes a top pound for pound fighter no doubt in ne one's mind but GSP's name is so much bigger and like you said he has a country behind him,i dont care how much some people been hating on Goerge lately they would all watch that fight if it did happen but yes if he decides to go after Anderson he should deff take another fight before.
I don't think you can say it's not even close. It's actually so close that its tough to predict.
Everybody I know would watch a Jones vs Silva fight. Same can be said for GSP.
These fights are self marketable an would attract similar numbers imo.
No matter which one it is, it would be the biggest fight in UFC history.

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11-20-2012, 08:55 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I don't think you can say it's not even close. It's actually so close that its tough to predict.
Everybody I know would watch a Jones vs Silva fight. Same can be said for GSP.
These fights are self marketable an would attract similar numbers imo.
No matter which one it is, it would be the biggest fight in UFC history.
Its not as close as you think. If jones and silva would bring in more money, dana would have been trying to promote that super fight instead. He's said time and time again GSP is the biggest PPV draw... Bigger than silva or jones.

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11-20-2012, 09:29 AM
  #270
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Its not as close as you think. If jones and silva would bring in more money, dana would have been trying to promote that super fight instead. He's said time and time again GSP is the biggest PPV draw... Bigger than silva or jones.
GSP and Silva are the UFC's biggest draws. As I mentioned in a previous post, GSP is able to touch more fans because of his canadian roots. However, for a super fight, I don't think there would be a big difference.

The low end fan that only watches the UFC because GSP is making headlines in Qc probably won't watch any other event without GSP. But I don't think those guys represent a majority or high percentage, if anything, they're a small group.
The casual UFC fan will tune in for a superfight, no matter who it is.

So as I said, for a superfight, I don't think there would be much of a difference in the drawing of viewership.

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11-20-2012, 09:55 AM
  #271
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I dont think the GSP vs AS fight is going to happen.

GSP will say no unless AS comes down to 170. He kept saying how Anderson fought in Pride at 168 and that was a very long time ago.

The latest rumor was Anderson Silva is calling out Frank Mir in the Heavy weight division. I'm not sure if it's a real rumor but that's pretty crazy... (read it somewhere on sherdog forums)

GSP vs AS will probably never happen
AS vs JBJ will probably never happen

It's Dana White who's trying to do all these super fights, but none of the champions really wanna go up or down in weight to challenge each other. except for AS wanting a piece of GSP.

If you wanna prove your the best, do what Fedor did and fight guys bigger than you. That's why Fedor is the GOAT IMO.

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11-20-2012, 12:37 PM
  #272
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I dont think the GSP vs AS fight is going to happen.

GSP will say no unless AS comes down to 170. He kept saying how Anderson fought in Pride at 168 and that was a very long time ago.

The latest rumor was Anderson Silva is calling out Frank Mir in the Heavy weight division. I'm not sure if it's a real rumor but that's pretty crazy... (read it somewhere on sherdog forums)

GSP vs AS will probably never happen
AS vs JBJ will probably never happen

It's Dana White who's trying to do all these super fights, but none of the champions really wanna go up or down in weight to challenge each other. except for AS wanting a piece of GSP.

If you wanna prove your the best, do what Fedor did and fight guys bigger than you. That's why Fedor is the GOAT IMO.
To me it's tough to compare Fedor and Silva. Rules are different in Japan, Silva can't fight a 300lbs fighter in the UFC unless his own weight goes up. In Pride these match ups could happen, but Fedor is no small guy either, although very undersized compared to some.

But rules are just different, if kicks and knees to a downed opponent were legit in the UFC, as well as yellow cards for lack of action, and the quick referee separations, it would only give Silva an even bigger edge.

There was a time Fedor seemed unbeatable, but then the talent started leaving and his opponents became less challenging. Eventually, he lost, 3 times in a row.

Silva, who's older, still appears to be in his prime. He still surprises people with some things, despite his age and experience.

I have a hard time saying Silva is better than Fedor, but I also have a hard time saying Fedor is better. To me they are both on a different level. The difference I feel is that I think Fedor is finished. Anderson on the other hand, looks like he can still destroy people for a few more years, easy.

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11-20-2012, 01:12 PM
  #273
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To me it's tough to compare Fedor and Silva. Rules are different in Japan, Silva can't fight a 300lbs fighter in the UFC unless his own weight goes up. In Pride these match ups could happen, but Fedor is no small guy either, although very undersized compared to some.

But rules are just different, if kicks and knees to a downed opponent were legit in the UFC, as well as yellow cards for lack of action, and the quick referee separations, it would only give Silva an even bigger edge.

There was a time Fedor seemed unbeatable, but then the talent started leaving and his opponents became less challenging. Eventually, he lost, 3 times in a row.

Silva, who's older, still appears to be in his prime. He still surprises people with some things, despite his age and experience.

I have a hard time saying Silva is better than Fedor, but I also have a hard time saying Fedor is better. To me they are both on a different level. The difference I feel is that I think Fedor is finished. Anderson on the other hand, looks like he can still destroy people for a few more years, easy.
The thing about Fedor is that he liked to use the ropes to his advantage, alot of times he pushes himself off the ropes to give him more power in his shots. He started having more trouble once he started fighting in the cage (just like you said Pride rules, different ring, etc). I think Fedor could have still fought right now and could probably kick some ass in the UFC, but the problem is he's part owner of M1 Global and this is what's complicating things for him.

Fedor has been beating the BEST heavy weights in the world and was not defeated for 10 years. Anderson Silva is a living legend aswell. He is today's Bruce Lee. Both are amazing fighters but I just find the competition Fedor faced was tougher than fighting guys like Yushin Okami, Stephan Bonnar and Forrest Griffin.

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11-20-2012, 02:41 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by RaMMuT View Post
The thing about Fedor is that he liked to use the ropes to his advantage, alot of times he pushes himself off the ropes to give him more power in his shots. He started having more trouble once he started fighting in the cage (just like you said Pride rules, different ring, etc). I think Fedor could have still fought right now and could probably kick some ass in the UFC, but the problem is he's part owner of M1 Global and this is what's complicating things for him.

Fedor has been beating the BEST heavy weights in the world and was not defeated for 10 years. Anderson Silva is a living legend aswell. He is today's Bruce Lee. Both are amazing fighters but I just find the competition Fedor faced was tougher than fighting guys like Yushin Okami, Stephan Bonnar and Forrest Griffin.
Well, let's not forget he jumped up to fight Bonnar and Griffin, and schooled them, badly.
But I can nitpick fights too and say I'm more impressed by Silva fighting guys like Franklin twice, Henderson, Sonnen than Fedor fighting Nagata, Tosaka, Goodridge.
I'm not gonna disagree though, the list of top contenders Fedor fought is more impressive. However, the way Silva dominated a lot of his opponents, and toyed with them, is just as impressive.
Bonnar is not a great fighter by any sense of the word. That being said, he does have a strong chin and can partake in good exchanges. The way Silva purposely moved into the cage, dropped his hands and had fun dodging punches as if he was in a training camp was unbelievable. If that wasn't enough, when he was fed up with his, he KOd him with a body hit. Did I mention this is in a division higher?

The list of fighters Fedor faced is more impressive, but the way Silva has fought his opposition is also more impressive than they way Fedor has.
In any event, they are both legends. I put Silva slightly on top because his reign hasn't come to an end yet.

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11-20-2012, 07:02 PM
  #275
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I love GSP but I have to give the edge to Silva. If GSP can resist getting knocked out, it would be 5 rounds of conservative and cautious ground and pound. Even if he wins, he won't gain the respect he deserves. People will whine that he fought cheap and just layed on Silva. This is not a good fight for George, all he has to gain is money and at this point, I don't think its as important then legacy to him.

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