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Who Makes the HHOF?

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Old
11-17-2012, 08:58 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by ZDatsZuke View Post
At some point or another...

Rick Nash
Claude Giroux
Drew Doughty

will most likely get in... some are safer than others.
Nash's list of accomplishments are as such:

2003 All-Rookie team
2004 Richard trophy/1st in goals (41, T-Iginla, Kovalchuk)
2009 5th in goals (40, T-Vanek, E.Staal, Hossa)

That's it. Nothing else. He's 28 now, he has one 70-point season to his name, and there's no reason to expect that it won't be his career best when all is said and done despite the fact that he's now in New York with Richards and Gaborik. His career year in points was 29% higher than his average production the rest of his career to-date. His 40 goals that season were 23% higher. His 39 assists were 36% higher. In other words, he peaked. He carried the Blue Jackets to the playoffs, and most of the credit went to rookie goalie Steve Mason, who was solid in net but ultimately not the team's MVP (Hart voting be damned).

Giroux... yeah, I'm sure he'd have a lot of votes if he retired today. Or more likely, none.

Doughty is the most accomplished; he was an important member of a Cup winner and he has been named to the postseason All-Star team. But he's still not a "probably"; unless you want to stick Vladimir Konstantinov, Gary Suter, Brian Campbell, Brad McCrimmon, Kevin Stevens, Sandis Ozolinsh, Vincent Lecavalier, Dan Boyle, and Eric Desjardins.

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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
Well we know Theodore will not get in. Unless Perry can string together a few more elite seasons I dont think he will get in.
Theodore won the Hart and the Vezina, and was named to the second team. As I said before with Perry, I am not aware of any eligible Hart winner who has not been inducted.

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11-18-2012, 03:13 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post
Crosby - Possibly
Ovechkin - Possibly
Malkin - Possibly
Datsyuk - Probably
Stamkos - Too soon
St.Louis - Possibly
Selanne - Definitely
Iginla - Definitely
Alfredsson - Definitely
The Sedins - Possibly
Thornton - Possibly
Perry - Unlikely
Getzlaf - Unlikely

Brodeur - Definitely
Luongo - Possibly
Lundqvist - Possibly
Why is Corey Perry unlikely?

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11-18-2012, 03:47 AM
  #128
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Datsyuk's numbers might not pop out, but I find it very unlikely that he doesn't get in. You have to keep in mind who votes on this. Hockey people and his peers hold him in the highest regard. Even if he leaves in two years to finish in Russia I have a feeling he is still pretty close to a slam dunk. Especially if Russia wins Olympic gold and I think they should be favored on home ice to do just that.

They say they count the players impact on the International level and in other leagues. It is the hockey hall of fame not just the NHL. On top of a lot of the awards he has won, he was the Russian league mvp during the last lockout and has a championship there as well. A Gold medal in the WC. He has quite a list of accomplishments, Zetterberg is the Wings guy that needs to keep up strong play in order to get this honor.

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11-18-2012, 10:23 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Nash's list of accomplishments are as such:

2003 All-Rookie team
2004 Richard trophy/1st in goals (41, T-Iginla, Kovalchuk)
2009 5th in goals (40, T-Vanek, E.Staal, Hossa)

That's it. Nothing else. He's 28 now, he has one 70-point season to his name, and there's no reason to expect that it won't be his career best when all is said and done despite the fact that he's now in New York with Richards and Gaborik. His career year in points was 29% higher than his average production the rest of his career to-date. His 40 goals that season were 23% higher. His 39 assists were 36% higher. In other words, he peaked. He carried the Blue Jackets to the playoffs, and most of the credit went to rookie goalie Steve Mason, who was solid in net but ultimately not the team's MVP (Hart voting be damned).

Giroux... yeah, I'm sure he'd have a lot of votes if he retired today. Or more likely, none.

Doughty is the most accomplished; he was an important member of a Cup winner and he has been named to the postseason All-Star team. But he's still not a "probably"; unless you want to stick Vladimir Konstantinov, Gary Suter, Brian Campbell, Brad McCrimmon, Kevin Stevens, Sandis Ozolinsh, Vincent Lecavalier, Dan Boyle, and Eric Desjardins.



Theodore won the Hart and the Vezina, and was named to the second team. As I said before with Perry, I am not aware of any eligible Hart winner who has not been inducted.
I didnt read the question "Out of the guys currently playing, who makes the Hall?" as if they would retire today. Nash in New York will probably get better stats, and also a Cup. A Stanley Cup, World Championship (most valuable player) and Olympic Gold + the Rocket makes the introduction likely in my mind + 5 All Star Game appearances (not much competition on BJs).

Both Giroux and Doughty are great players that I am confident will have a resumé better than many already in the Hall, when they retire.

I somewhat agree in that Nash has to prove his worth in New York to get valid consideration.

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11-18-2012, 11:35 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDatsZuke View Post
I didnt read the question "Out of the guys currently playing, who makes the Hall?" as if they would retire today. Nash in New York will probably get better stats, and also a Cup. A Stanley Cup, World Championship (most valuable player) and Olympic Gold + the Rocket makes the introduction likely in my mind + 5 All Star Game appearances (not much competition on BJs).

Both Giroux and Doughty are great players that I am confident will have a resumé better than many already in the Hall, when they retire.

I somewhat agree in that Nash has to prove his worth in New York to get valid consideration.
i really doubt Nash will even be a 70 point player the rest of his career. perhaps if he had been traded to pittsburgh, but not NY. i know he gets to play with Gaborik and Richards, but i doubt all 3 of them will be on the same line. at age 28 already, Nash has a lot of ground to make up to be in the HHOF. 1 rocket richard trophy is not enough, otherwise Cheechoo would be going in. and the team accomplishments do not carry as much weight as some people like to think. those are TEAM awards.

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11-18-2012, 01:52 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Nash's list of accomplishments are as such:

2003 All-Rookie team
2004 Richard trophy/1st in goals (41, T-Iginla, Kovalchuk)
2009 5th in goals (40, T-Vanek, E.Staal, Hossa)

That's it. Nothing else. He's 28 now, he has one 70-point season to his name, and there's no reason to expect that it won't be his career best when all is said and done despite the fact that he's now in New York with Richards and Gaborik. His career year in points was 29% higher than his average production the rest of his career to-date. His 40 goals that season were 23% higher. His 39 assists were 36% higher. In other words, he peaked. He carried the Blue Jackets to the playoffs, and most of the credit went to rookie goalie Steve Mason, who was solid in net but ultimately not the team's MVP (Hart voting be damned).

Giroux... yeah, I'm sure he'd have a lot of votes if he retired today. Or more likely, none.

Doughty is the most accomplished; he was an important member of a Cup winner and he has been named to the postseason All-Star team. But he's still not a "probably"; unless you want to stick Vladimir Konstantinov, Gary Suter, Brian Campbell, Brad McCrimmon, Kevin Stevens, Sandis Ozolinsh, Vincent Lecavalier, Dan Boyle, and Eric Desjardins.



Theodore won the Hart and the Vezina, and was named to the second team. As I said before with Perry, I am not aware of any eligible Hart winner who has not been inducted.
that could be because there hasn't been to many fluke hart winners ever in the history of the league basically.

every hart winner, basically also have the numbers to back up that hart win.

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11-18-2012, 05:17 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Datsyuk's numbers might not pop out, but I find it very unlikely that he doesn't get in. You have to keep in mind who votes on this. Hockey people and his peers hold him in the highest regard. Even if he leaves in two years to finish in Russia I have a feeling he is still pretty close to a slam dunk. Especially if Russia wins Olympic gold and I think they should be favored on home ice to do just that.

They say they count the players impact on the International level and in other leagues. It is the hockey hall of fame not just the NHL. On top of a lot of the awards he has won, he was the Russian league mvp during the last lockout and has a championship there as well. A Gold medal in the WC. He has quite a list of accomplishments, Zetterberg is the Wings guy that needs to keep up strong play in order to get this honor.
Zetterberg is as much of a lock as Dats is. He has a 2nd team selection and a Conn Smythe, plus an Olympic Gold, a Cup, and another Finals appearance. He has also been far better in the playoffs than Dats while posting comparable RS career stats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDatsZuke View Post
I didnt read the question "Out of the guys currently playing, who makes the Hall?" as if they would retire today. Nash in New York will probably get better stats, and also a Cup. A Stanley Cup, World Championship (most valuable player) and Olympic Gold + the Rocket makes the introduction likely in my mind + 5 All Star Game appearances (not much competition on BJs).

Both Giroux and Doughty are great players that I am confident will have a resumé better than many already in the Hall, when they retire.

I somewhat agree in that Nash has to prove his worth in New York to get valid consideration.
But you can't just assume that a young player like Giroux or Doughty will prove themselves Hall-worthy, or that Nash will do enough over the rest of his career to earn the nod. If asked in the summer of 1996, Jim Carey would be a HHOFer by that qualification. He had just won the Vezina, after finishing third in Vezina and all-star voting the year before as a rookie. He had more accolades to his name than Martin Brodeur (HHOF lock) or Chris Osgood (highly likely), despite being two years younger.

Carey still has accomplished more than any of Nash, Doughty or Giroux (save for Doughty's Cup), and Carey is one of many Vezina winners who will not ever be in the Hall.

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11-18-2012, 06:47 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by jack mullet View Post
i really doubt Nash will even be a 70 point player the rest of his career. perhaps if he had been traded to pittsburgh, but not NY. i know he gets to play with Gaborik and Richards, but i doubt all 3 of them will be on the same line. at age 28 already, Nash has a lot of ground to make up to be in the HHOF. 1 rocket richard trophy is not enough, otherwise Cheechoo would be going in. and the team accomplishments do not carry as much weight as some people like to think. those are TEAM awards.
You could be right about that, though unlike Cheechoo, Nash hasnt gone of the map and will have the advantage of actually playing in the NHL. Something that matters is point totals, even if he should stay below 70 for the rest of his career. (I dont think he will, but he might).

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11-18-2012, 07:23 PM
  #134
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The Sedins get in but not Alfie? I think you got that ass backwards man.
Seven years older with point totals easily enough made up for before the Sedins are the same age that Alfie is now.

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11-18-2012, 08:52 PM
  #135
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Rick Nash would make the Hall of Prestigous Players. Not the HOF though.

Alfredsson I wouldn't mind if he got in but he missed a season during his peak because of lockout 1.0 and only had four 30 goal seasons plus never really stood above other elite players at any point. Of course that last argument is terrible because nowadays there are more teams and more stars so you shouldn't have to stand that far above others. You can finish 5th in scoring every single season of your career and still put up fantastic numbers and get into the HOF imo.

But if Alfredsson got consideration then I'd say Naslund should too. He didn't have as long of a career but was probably one of the best players in the world for a few years around his peak. Obviously Naslund won't get in.

I'd like to see some high end defensive dmen get conisderation. Adam Foote, maybe Jim Schoefeld, etc. Scott Stevens seems to be the only one to play in the past 20 seasons who's gotten in I think.

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11-18-2012, 10:02 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
Rick Nash would make the Hall of Prestigous Players. Not the HOF though.

Alfredsson I wouldn't mind if he got in but he missed a season during his peak because of lockout 1.0 and only had four 30 goal seasons plus never really stood above other elite players at any point. Of course that last argument is terrible because nowadays there are more teams and more stars so you shouldn't have to stand that far above others. You can finish 5th in scoring every single season of your career and still put up fantastic numbers and get into the HOF imo.
Even Gretzky couldn't do what you just suggested. Almost, though. He did it 16 of 20, and 13 straight from the start of his career.

Gordie Howe scored top-five 20 in a row. He started the streak in his fourth season with the Wings. He finished ninth the year after, and then one more year outside of the top-ten before he retired for the first time.

Bobby Orr played three seasons, winning the Calder and two Norrises, and then went on to finish top-three every year for six straight seasons (with six more Norrises), and didn't play another full season afterwards.

So yes, if you score top-five every year (more or less) of your career, you'll be in the HHOF. And you'll also be in the conversation for best player ever.

Quote:
But if Alfredsson got consideration then I'd say Naslund should too. He didn't have as long of a career but was probably one of the best players in the world for a few years around his peak. Obviously Naslund won't get in.
Don't be so sure on Naslund. He has three straight 1st-team selections and a Pearson. He very well could get in.

Quote:
I'd like to see some high end defensive dmen get conisderation. Adam Foote, maybe Jim Schoefeld, etc. Scott Stevens seems to be the only one to play in the past 20 seasons who's gotten in I think.
Stevens didn't get in for his defense. Adam Foote and Jim Schoenfeld were not good enough to justify HHOF.

I love this HFboard attitude of "defense is overrated" when evaluating active individual players, but then when talking about past greats it's "Why don't they give more recognition to defensive players?" And it's the same people who say it.

Jonathan Toews' Selke level defense and PPG offense in a tight checking division and conference doesn't make him an equal or better player than defensive liability Steven Stamkos, who benefits greatly from Martin St. Louis' playmaking and defensive ability. That Selke level defense doesn't make up the gap; about 15 points if you don't consider the differences in their conferences.

But when will Adam Foote make the Hall? I mean, he's certainly more deserving than Phil Housley, Sandis Ozolinsh, Gary Suter, James Patrick, Brad McCrimmon, Steve Duchesne, Al Iafrate, Bryan Berard, Wade Redden, or Doug Wilson.

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Old
11-19-2012, 12:20 AM
  #137
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Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin

Datsyuk
Stamkos
St.Louis
Selanne
Iginla

Alfredsson
The Sedins
Thornton

Perry
Getzlaf

Brodeur
Luongo
Lundqvist

Im confident in all of those except the sedins, let see if they keep it up.

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11-19-2012, 01:19 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Sadly, Perry is probably going in. He has a Hart trophy to his name, and to my knowledge no eligible Hart winner is not in. Henrik Sedin gets the same. Datsyuk is highly decorated, as is Daniel Sedin. So they are a guaranteed as anyone. Iginla is definitely going in, as is Alfredsson.
Lindros is not there yet. Although he will likely get in at some point. I think you are talking about Art Ross.

I think people here have accepted the fact that Theodore is not going to get in. So there is no reason Perry needs to.

Also if you take a look at the former Hart winner's there is pretty impressive names on the list. I frankly can't find a single non worthy candidate since 50's. (I stopped there since i have none/little knowledge of players before that time.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_Memorial_Trophy

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11-19-2012, 01:26 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by ZDatsZuke View Post
At some point or another...

Jaromir Jagr
Teemu Selanne
Chris Pronger
Jarome Iginla
Miikka Kiprusoff Would be great, but i doubt it.
Daniel Alfredsson Not sure thing in any way
Tim Thomas I would have him there but his off ice antics might stand in the way
Martin St. Louis
Joe Thornton
Vincent Lecavalier Can't really see it. Only one time rocket winner
Pavel Datsyuk
Zdeno Chara
Henrik Sedin
Daniel Sedin
Brad Richards Is this based only to the Conn Smythe?
Henrik Lundqvist
Corey Perry I would rather not to have him in there without few more elite seasons. Too early to tell
Ilya Kovalchuk Has a good chance if he keeps up with that kind of play
Rick Nash Hopefully not. I don't even get why he should be considered right now? Probably worse player than Lecavalier
Henrik Zetterberg I don't think he makes it nly due to the Conn Smythe
Alexander Ovechkin
Sidney Crosby
Evgeni Malkin
Claude Giroux There is no way of knowing this. I would say no.
Jonathan Toews Hope that his Canadian status does not get him in. He is not good enough as a player
Steven Stamkos No way of knowing yet, but he will only have to have few one season like last and rest of his career as a solid layer
Erik Karlsson We will see, too early to say
Drew Doughty Like Karlsson

will most likely get in... some are safer than others.
Why did you list so many young players? There is no way of even having a good guess about Karlsson or Doughty. Same goes with Giroux and many others too.

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11-19-2012, 01:38 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by ZDatsZuke View Post
I didnt read the question "Out of the guys currently playing, who makes the Hall?" as if they would retire today. Nash in New York will probably get better stats, and also a Cup. A Stanley Cup, World Championship (most valuable player) and Olympic Gold + the Rocket makes the introduction likely in my mind + 5 All Star Game appearances (not much competition on BJs).

Both Giroux and Doughty are great players that I am confident will have a resumé better than many already in the Hall, when they retire.

I somewhat agree in that Nash has to prove his worth in New York to get valid consideration.
So you are saying the Rangers will win the cup? Are you Mark Messier? If not, then i won't count on your word.

Also All-Star games mean next to nothing.1st and 2nd team all-stars are the ones that count.

The thing with young players is that so many things can go wrong. Kariya/Lindros/Crosby/etc.

Giroux might regress/fall back/get injured or anything else. There is too much variables to account for.

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11-19-2012, 03:19 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Lindros is not there yet. Although he will likely get in at some point. I think you are talking about Art Ross.
Ok... Lindros makes one.

Quote:
I think people here have accepted the fact that Theodore is not going to get in. So there is no reason Perry needs to.

Also if you take a look at the former Hart winner's there is pretty impressive names on the list. I frankly can't find a single non worthy candidate since 50's. (I stopped there since i have none/little knowledge of players before that time.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_Memorial_Trophy
Just out of curiosity, what range of players would you consider HHOFers? Like the top 5 goalies over a period of ten years? Top 3? I'd like to know.

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11-19-2012, 03:42 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Ok... Lindros makes one.



Just out of curiosity, what range of players would you consider HHOFers? Like the top 5 goalies over a period of ten years? Top 3? I'd like to know.
People over think this. It's any player who can be considered as a super-star (or star imo) for a decent length of time.

So Eric Lindros for example was considered a superstar for at least 5 yrs...HOFer.

Crosby considered elite for 6 yrs and counting now, HOFer.

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11-19-2012, 03:59 PM
  #143
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People over think this. It's any player who can be considered as a super-star (or star imo) for a decent length of time.

So Eric Lindros for example was considered a superstar for at least 5 yrs...HOFer.

Crosby considered elite for 6 yrs and counting now, HOFer.
Hmm. So what you're saying is... Alexei Yashin is a HHOFer?

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11-19-2012, 04:05 PM
  #144
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Lindros is a Hall of Famer because he is one of the best and most dominant players of the 90s.

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11-19-2012, 04:35 PM
  #145
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They have many major similarities, all things considered.

-Olympic golds all around (of note: Alfredsson led the Swedes in scoring)
-Finals appearances all around (of note: Alfredsson led the playoffs in scoring)
-One 100 point season each (of note: Henrik and Daniel led the league in scoring respectively)
-Consistency in reaching the 70-plus point plateau (Alfredsson-10, Henrik-7, Daniel-6)

What I have a problem with is your assertion that a late-round draft pick Calder winner was a late bloomer. Very counterintuitive. His peak was in his 30's? That means he was consistently good from the moment he entered the league. The Sedins, being high picks and all, were the late bloomers, and if anything, those mediocre seasons were the difference between Alfredsson and the Sedins' HHOF chances at this juncture. His PPG average is superior.

Anyhow, should they continue to produce at a high level and get closer to the point a game mark, they will have a good shot. They'll have to lead the charge to some sort of victory though, as their 'unclutch' factor is problematic (Alfredsson led the Swedes to Gold, and rewrote the SEL record book in the lockout year en route to a championship). And one final point, I don't consider Alfredsson to be a lock. He's close, but two lockouts hurt his chances.
Good post,alfie played on some good but never great teams in ottawa,his best season also came when we finally had a legit 1st line center in spezza

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11-19-2012, 04:54 PM
  #146
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Theodore won the Hart and he'll never get in. Albeit he's a goalie not a player.

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11-19-2012, 06:40 PM
  #147
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Good post,alfie played on some good but never great teams in ottawa,his best season also came when we finally had a legit 1st line center in spezza
Yashin was more legit than Spezza.

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11-19-2012, 06:40 PM
  #148
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Theodore won the Hart and he'll never get in. Albeit he's a goalie not a player.
What if he wins the Vezina next time the NHL plays a season? Will you still say this?

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11-19-2012, 09:23 PM
  #149
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Good post,alfie played on some good but never great teams in ottawa,his best season also came when we finally had a legit 1st line center in spezza
Are you joking?

Ottawa's rankings per season.

1999: 3rd
2000: 10th
2001 4th
2002: 14th
2003: 1st
2004: 6th
2006: 2nd
2007:8th
2008:12th

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11-20-2012, 08:04 AM
  #150
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Are you joking?

Ottawa's rankings per season.

1999: 3rd
2000: 10th
2001 4th
2002: 14th
2003: 1st
2004: 6th
2006: 2nd
2007:8th
2008:12th
What part didnt you understand i said good not great teams,In which he had either todd white or brian smolinski as his center.Ottawa,s teams scored yes because they had a great group of wingers and a pretty good group at defense.Down the middle sucked as did our goalies

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