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11-19-2012, 01:18 PM
  #51
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I appreciate him no longer playing in Boston.

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11-19-2012, 04:44 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
Used his size fine?? Hmm, agree to disagree, with that big frame, we should have seen a guy who repeatedly relied on that frame who could drive the net, dominate the boards etc....I didn`t need or expect Wheels to be dominant with open ice hits, bowl over opponents however, too many times I watched smaller players (recall one game in particular where on 3 occasions Gomez won board battles) beat him in areas it was inexcuseable for him to lose battles in.
Wheeler didn't even implement his size during a shootout. With his reach he should have been forcing goalies to have to get across after freezing them. Saw him do it once, and perfectly, the rest of the time he stick handled into the goalie's pads like mini-one on one.

He'd show flashes of using his reach, but it was like watching someone who had no idea they even possessed the advantage. Simply using his size to protect the puck? Nope. Again, it seemed he had no clue how to utilize his own strengths.

I love the classic "Kessel defense" e.g "Oh, him not powerforward like Neely, so he was traded. Duuuuuh". Shows what a myopic view some have of the game.

BTW, Lets completely ignore he was also a deer in the headlights much of the time. Especially when we needed him to step up most. Step up and score a goal? No. Step up and not be an empty uniform, actually play close to his potential, period. He never did, we only ever saw slivers of it.

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11-20-2012, 07:14 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
Wheeler didn't even implement his size during a shootout. With his reach he should have been forcing goalies to have to get across after freezing them. Saw him do it once, and perfectly, the rest of the time he stick handled into the goalie's pads like mini-one on one.

He'd show flashes of using his reach, but it was like watching someone who had no idea they even possessed the advantage. Simply using his size to protect the puck? Nope. Again, it seemed he had no clue how to utilize his own strengths.

I love the classic "Kessel defense" e.g "Oh, him not powerforward like Neely, so he was traded. Duuuuuh". Shows what a myopic view some have of the game.

BTW, Lets completely ignore he was also a deer in the headlights much of the time. Especially when we needed him to step up most. Step up and score a goal? No. Step up and not be an empty uniform, actually play close to his potential, period. He never did, we only ever saw slivers of it.
Great post Neely, I recall that summer when there were reports that Wheels was working hard at adding some bulk/muscle to be more effective when it came to board battles, using that strength as a nice compliment to the speed and skill he has. Some here commented as though that would translate into a bangin/crashin Wheels, that was never his game nor will it ever be.

I was truly hoping he`d be that player who used that size with confidence to fend off opponents and drive the net, win those battles, not for a minute was I anticipating he`d come out with a newly found nastiness etc...Wheels has alot of skill and he displayed it from time to time which just left me shaking my head when he`d then go a bakers dozen without showing one glimpse of it.

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11-20-2012, 12:47 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
Great post Neely, I recall that summer when there were reports that Wheels was working hard at adding some bulk/muscle to be more effective when it came to board battles, using that strength as a nice compliment to the speed and skill he has. Some here commented as though that would translate into a bangin/crashin Wheels, that was never his game nor will it ever be.

I was truly hoping he`d be that player who used that size with confidence to fend off opponents and drive the net, win those battles, not for a minute was I anticipating he`d come out with a newly found nastiness etc...Wheels has alot of skill and he displayed it from time to time which just left me shaking my head when he`d then go a bakers dozen without showing one glimpse of it.
I stuck up for a Wheels for a long time b/c of his potential. You kept praying something would click. Most often he was a let down. Worse, sometimes he looked completely confused out there. Frustrating.

Since when does simply winning a battle for a puck and making a heads up play necessarily translate to playing like Neely? No one ever expected Neely or Lucic. Marchand comes up to Chara's ankles, wins battles, goes into corners w/ a purpose, etc. Rex? Kelly? Why is that so hard to understand? Good ole' Kessel defense alive and well.

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11-20-2012, 12:54 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
I stuck up for a Wheels for a long time b/c of his potential. You kept praying something would click. Most often he was a let down. Worse, sometimes he looked completely confused out there. Frustrating.

Since when does simply winning a battle for a puck and making a heads up play necessarily translate to playing like Neely? No one ever expected Neely or Lucic. Marchand comes up to Chara's ankles, wins battles, goes into corners w/ a purpose, etc. Rex? Kelly? Why is that so hard to understand? Good ole' Kessel defense alive and well.
What was his potential?

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11-20-2012, 01:52 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Wheeler was not a dumb player. You can't be a dumb player and be as solid as Wheels can be defensively. His problem in Boston is that Boston has certain expectations of what a player is supposed to look like when they happen to be over a certain height, and Wheeler just didn't have the mindset to use his size the way the Bruins wanted him to. A more laissez-faire environment that allowed him to use his actual skillset instead of the skillset people expect of a 6'4" wing in Boston, it's no shock to me he's thriving.

What Wheeler is: A skill wing with very good skating ability and above average hands, and a skilled defensive wing, who also happens to be a big man who can use his size in his skill game to make it harder to take him off the puck

What Wheeler never will be, and what Boston expected him to be: A power forward.

That's pretty much the end of it. Wheeler is not a PF, simple as that. Short-sighted Bruins fans and apparently at least a few in the FO (Neely?) demanded that with his size, he really ought to be a PF, and when he tried to be a PF to please us it took him off his game and he struggled. I said it for years while he was here, allow him to play his actual game, which is a more European style skill-first big man game that focuses on skating over banging bodies, and he's going to do a lot better -- and lo and behold, that's exactly what happened.

People are annoyed with him for only coming into his own when he left Boston; it was because he left Boston that he was ever allowed to come into his own.
I don't always agree with Dojji but when I do I agree 100%. Although I must add that Wheels' trouble staying onside drove me crazy.

It was the same crap with Hal Gill and Joe Thornton- people expected them to just crush people because of their size/strength and when they didn't they were absolutely savaged for it.

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11-20-2012, 03:34 PM
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I don't always agree with Dojji but when I do I agree 100%. Although I must add that Wheels' trouble staying onside drove me crazy.

It was the same crap with Hal Gill and Joe Thornton- people expected them to just crush people because of their size/strength and when they didn't they were absolutely savaged for it.

Wheeler was 6'3 205 and described as a project player at the draft. When he wanted 5th overall money,Phoenix balked. Project players don't usually pan out but the high side seemed very high. Any projections made of Wheeler were very very unlikely as he was a #5 pick in name only. He's now 6'5 217 and coming off a 64 point season. 75 ain't out of the question. Project player blooming later.

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11-20-2012, 08:32 PM
  #58
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What was his potential?
Physically? Limitless. He had it all. Size, speed, shot, Lemiuex like reach that could put a D-man in bad ice in a split second. It was all there.

Mentally? Seemed to be an issue w/ general hockey sense. People talk a/b going offsides a lot. Never bothered me near as much as things like; going for a line change when he was the one forward back, going for a line change while on a 3 on 2 the other way, having body position then just giving it up, coughing up the puck at either blueline, general lack of situational awareness.

He would often take 2 steps forward (i.e. planting his ass in front of the net, shooting more, etc), then just inexplicably regress and disappear.

Like I said, he was a hard guy to give up on. I always said he may be one of those guys that "gets it" somewhere else, and has more success. He wasn't the guy we needed in spring 2011. It's not so much what Peverly did, it's what he didn't do. Add he stepped up huge when Horton went down. Would Blake have? Based on what we saw up to that point, no way.

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11-20-2012, 08:59 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by BMC View Post
I don't always agree with Dojji but when I do I agree 100%. Although I must add that Wheels' trouble staying onside drove me crazy.

It was the same crap with Hal Gill and Joe Thornton- people expected them to just crush people because of their size/strength and when they didn't they were absolutely savaged for it.
Sorry, BMC. This is a total cop out and so is Doji's take. I certainly didn't expect Wheeler to play like Eric Lindros. But was it so much to ask for him to play as big as Marchand? As big as Martin St.Louis, as big as Mark Recchi? Could he at least battle for a puck, or through a check as hard as a well determined 5'10" player? It's just far more obvious when the guy does happen to be 6'5" and my 5 year old could take the puck from him w/ a stick lift and little shove.

Same thing people want out of Seguin right now, is what was also expected of Wheeler, and pretty much any other player. Kessel is another example of this "he wasn't Cam Neely so he was traded" mentality. There's more to the game than pretty goals.

I can't believe I'm so desperate for hockey I'm talking a/b Blake ****in Wheeler!! We won the cup! **** this guy. And the unicorn he and Kessel rode in on, too. Christ.

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11-20-2012, 09:22 PM
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If a player as big as Wheeler did what Marchand does, we'd call him a ***** and if you're honest, you'll admit it.

We love Marchand because he's tiny and still "relatively" physical. He'll try to make smart hits and he won't shy away from contact despite being outmatched on paper. Take a guy who's 6'5" and we'd all say that "if he's going to initiate, *a guy that size* ought to be able to finish." You know it. I know it.

Trying to pretend that the standards for Wheeler were anywhere near where they are for Marchand is just deluded. Heck, half the reason he's so beloved is that there WERE no expectations for Marchand. In the same environment I'd have to think we'd have appreciated more what we got out of Blake Wheeler. As it is people can't quite see past the high overall pick with Wheels and appreciate what they actually have, even if it's a relatively decent package, the same way they can't with Pouliot, and for exactly the same reasons.


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11-20-2012, 09:36 PM
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Same thing people want out of Seguin right now, is what was also expected of Wheeler, and pretty much any other player. Kessel is another example of this "he wasn't Cam Neely so he was traded" mentality. There's more to the game than pretty goals.
That's absurd. Seguin is an average size player, and we don't get the same kind of crazy about those guys as we do with anyone over about 6'3". An average height skill player, we know what to do with. We know what that is, and what to expect -- and what not to expect.

No one has any problem with Bergeron. No one has any problem with Krejci on a physicality standpoint, But a lot of players over the years -- forwards in particular, but defensemen are hardly immune -- that have been 6'3" or taller and happen to be skillsy types rather than body bangers, we fans seem to have this tendency to want to find reasons to criticize them. Heck most of last year, whenever people wanted to propose a remedy for what ailed Benoit Pouliot, half of the proposals involved Pouliot getting into some kind of fight. It was clear what the fans were demanding to see, and just as clear that it wasn't likely to happen. I notice that the opinion of his skating dipped remarkably once it was clear that Pouliot wasn't really going to change his game from the ground up to become more physical. The Wheeler Offsides became the Pouliot Falls Down and really, nothing changed, nor will it. And yet the only two things the French-Ontarian scoring wing and the Minnesota setup wing had in common was the fact that they were large wings drafted high with no particular inclination to dominate the game physically.

The mindset didn't start with Thornton and it won't end with Pouliot. It's a simple fact -- we have expectations of what physically large forwards are supposed to look like in this town and a player who doesn't meet those expectations tends to get the kind of rough treatment only a Bruins player out of favor with his fans can receive.

It doesn't matter what words we use to actually criticize the player, it could be any of a number of excuses, but the fact is that we will, every time, find excuses to rag on any player over 6'3" who is not at least Nathan Horton level of physical intensity.


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11-20-2012, 09:53 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
If a player as big as Wheeler did what Marchand does, we'd call him a ***** and if you're honest, you'll admit it.

We love Marchand because he's tiny and still "relatively" physical. He'll try to make smart hits and he won't shy away from contact despite being outmatched on paper. Take a guy who's 6'5" and we'd all say that "if he's going to initiate, *a guy that size* ought to be able to finish." You know it. I know it.

Trying to pretend that the standards for Wheeler were anywhere near where they are for Marchand is just deluded. Heck, half the reason he's so beloved is that there WERE no expectations for Marchand. In the same environment I'd have to think we'd have appreciated more what we got out of Blake Wheeler. As it is people can't quite see past the high overall pick with Wheels and appreciate what they actually have, even if it's a relatively decent package, the same way they can't with Pouliot, and for exactly the same reasons.
Three things:

1. Brad Marchand has scored one less goal and 13 less points in 48 LESS games than Wheeler did as a Bruin.

2. Brad Marchand was a key ingredient in the Bruins' Stanley Cup run. 11 goals, 19 points in 25 games. Compare that Wheeler's ONE goal and SIX points in 21.

3. Brad Marchand initiates contact and wins physical battles at a far greater rate than Wheeler ever did here. And that's despite the size difference.

There's a reason that Marchand is treated with more respect here than Wheeler was. He's a better hockey player.

Your strawman draft position BS doesn't fly. We like players who play well in Boston. We don't like players who play like losers.

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11-20-2012, 09:55 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
That's absurd. Seguin is an average size player, and we don't get the same kind of crazy about those guys as we do with anyone over about 6'3". An average height skill player, we know what to do with. We know what that is, and what to expect -- and what not to expect.

No one has any problem with Bergeron. No one has any problem with Krejci on a physicality standpoint, But a lot of players over the years -- forwards in particular, but defensemen are hardly immune -- that have been 6'3" or taller and happen to be skillsy types rather than body bangers, we fans seem to have this tendency to want to find reasons to criticize them. Heck most of last year, whenever people wanted to propose a remedy for what ailed Benoit Pouliot, half of the proposals involved Pouliot getting into some kind of fight. It was clear what the fans were demanding to see, and just as clear that it wasn't likely to happen. I notice that the opinion of his skating dipped remarkably once it was clear that Pouliot wasn't really going to change his game from the ground up to become more physical. The Wheeler Offsides became the Pouliot Falls Down and really, nothing changed, nor will it. And yet the only two things the French-Ontarian scoring wing and the Minnesota setup wing had in common was the fact that they were large wings drafted high with no particular inclination to dominate the game physically.

The mindset didn't start with Thornton and it won't end with Pouliot. It's a simple fact -- we have expectations of what physically large forwards are supposed to look like in this town and a player who doesn't meet those expectations tends to get the kind of rough treatment only a Bruins player out of favor with his fans can receive.

It doesn't matter what words we use to actually criticize the player, it could be any of a number of excuses, but the fact is that we will, every time, find excuses to rag on any player over 6'3" who is not at least Nathan Horton level of physical intensity.
duh... me caveman dum] me want fight with big fights. me no like blaik weelerz. doughji is rite]]] me stoopid bruins fan

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11-20-2012, 11:47 PM
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Three things:

1. Brad Marchand has scored one less goal and 13 less points in 48 LESS games than Wheeler did as a Bruin.

2. Brad Marchand was a key ingredient in the Bruins' Stanley Cup run. 11 goals, 19 points in 25 games. Compare that Wheeler's ONE goal and SIX points in 21.

3. Brad Marchand initiates contact and wins physical battles at a far greater rate than Wheeler ever did here. And that's despite the size difference.

There's a reason that Marchand is treated with more respect here than Wheeler was. He's a better hockey player.

Your strawman draft position BS doesn't fly. We like players who play well in Boston. We don't like players who play like losers.
I've read through this post four times and I have yet to see a single point in here that disagrees with me, or even has anything to do with the conversation to this point. If you want to argue that Marchand is a better hockey player than Wheeler, feel free to start that conversation. That's not the conversation any of the rest of us are having, but they do say talking to yourself is nice and theraputic.

Personally, I agree that in terms of skill, Marchand is a more complete hockey player. He has better hands and a better shot, and he brings a sense that he knows what he's trying to do on the ice that Wheeler never seemed to have. Largely because there's only so many ways that a guy like Brad Marchand can play NHL hockey. That said, I say again, if a 6'5" player tried to play the game the way Brad Marchand does, Boston fans would have none of it. And I note that you didn't even try to deny that.

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11-21-2012, 12:02 AM
  #65
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I've read through this post four times and I have yet to see a single point in here that disagrees with me, or even has anything to do with the conversation to this point. If you want to argue that Marchand is a better hockey player than Wheeler, feel free to start that conversation. That's not the conversation any of the rest of us are having, but they do say talking to yourself is nice and theraputic.

Personally, I agree that in terms of skill, Marchand is a more complete hockey player. He has better hands and a better shot, and he brings a sense that he knows what he's trying to do on the ice that Wheeler never seemed to have. Largely because there's only so many ways that a guy like Brad Marchand can play NHL hockey. That said, I say again, if a 6'5" player tried to play the game the way Brad Marchand does, Boston fans would have none of it. And I note that you didn't even try to deny that.
Reading comprehension much?

I'll break it down for ya, Cap'n. Real nice and simple.

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If a player as big as Wheeler did what Marchand does, we'd call him a ***** and if you're honest, you'll admit it.
If Wheeler showed the intensity, intelligence, success and drive that Marchand does here, he'd be a ****ing HERO. Not a "*****" by your assertion. There's a reason we like Marchand. It's because he's GOOD. Wheeler was NOT GOOD.

I know you like to think yourself as more savvy than the rest of us gronks who cheer for this team. But if you hop off your high horse for a moment, you'd see why some of us were ACTUALLY frustrated with his play. By reading the reasons we put in black and white.

If you disagree with THAT rationale, I'm more than willing to have that conversation with you. And civilly as well. But to continue to go back to "you expected him to be something that he wasn't" is flat-out IGNORING the dialogue and polluting it into terms that make YOU feel just.

If it seems that I'm having a conversation with myself, it's because at times you seem to lack an input. All output. Which is unfortunate, because you're a bright ****ing guy... And it makes me second-guess myself when I agree with you (which I often do).

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11-21-2012, 12:31 AM
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Reading comprehension much?

I'll break it down for ya, Cap'n. Real nice and simple.



If Wheeler showed the intensity, intelligence, success and drive that Marchand does here, he'd be a ****ing HERO. Not a "*****" by your assertion. There's a reason we like Marchand. It's because he's GOOD. Wheeler was NOT GOOD.

I know you like to think yourself as more savvy than the rest of us gronks who cheer for this team. But if you hop off your high horse for a moment, you'd see why some of us were ACTUALLY frustrated with his play. By reading the reasons we put in black and white.

If you disagree with THAT rationale, I'm more than willing to have that conversation with you. And civilly as well. But to continue to go back to "you expected him to be something that he wasn't" is flat-out IGNORING the dialogue and polluting it into terms that make YOU feel just.

If it seems that I'm having a conversation with myself, it's because at times you seem to lack an input. All output. Which is unfortunate, because you're a bright ****ing guy... And it makes me second-guess myself when I agree with you (which I often do).
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11-21-2012, 01:00 PM
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Physically? Limitless. He had it all. Size, speed, shot, Lemiuex like reach that could put a D-man in bad ice in a split second. It was all there.

Mentally? Seemed to be an issue w/ general hockey sense. People talk a/b going offsides a lot. Never bothered me near as much as things like; going for a line change when he was the one forward back, going for a line change while on a 3 on 2 the other way, having body position then just giving it up, coughing up the puck at either blueline, general lack of situational awareness.

He would often take 2 steps forward (i.e. planting his ass in front of the net, shooting more, etc), then just inexplicably regress and disappear.

Like I said, he was a hard guy to give up on. I always said he may be one of those guys that "gets it" somewhere else, and has more success. He wasn't the guy we needed in spring 2011. It's not so much what Peverly did, it's what he didn't do. Add he stepped up huge when Horton went down. Would Blake have? Based on what we saw up to that point, no way.
I see it more as he didn't meet fans expectations,which were unrealistic. He was considered a "project" player before the draft. A project player with the physical gifts to have 1st or second line potential. Fans here expected it but scouts nowhere else did. Project players usually fail so our expectations were unrealistic. The fact that he has seemed to turn it around within a half year to a year of his departure hints that this may have been the wrong place for his development. This year should be interesting for him when potential is being realized and expectations are now realistic,at 26 years old. If potential becomes expectance then he has beaten the odds of his pre draft scouting report where 1 out of 2 first round picks have 8 year NHL careers.

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11-21-2012, 04:42 PM
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I see it more as he didn't meet fans expectations,which were unrealistic. He was considered a "project" player before the draft. A project player with the physical gifts to have 1st or second line potential. Fans here expected it but scouts nowhere else did. Project players usually fail so our expectations were unrealistic. The fact that he has seemed to turn it around within a half year to a year of his departure hints that this may have been the wrong place for his development. This year should be interesting for him when potential is being realized and expectations are now realistic,at 26 years old. If potential becomes expectance then he has beaten the odds of his pre draft scouting report where 1 out of 2 first round picks have 8 year NHL careers.
That may be true, but fans don't trade players. I'm fairly sure management's expectations had little to do w/ him playing like a 6'5" physical monster like Lucic. But more as a productive guy who could implement his skill, while using his size to his advantage to win battles, and out work the opposition, per the B's system. All things considered, not surprising they cashed him in when they did, and for what they received. A hard working player, who could pull his weight, they could plug right into the system.

He was on a contender here. Pressure off in Atlanta/Winnipeg, less of a structured system, not surprised at all he had some success there. Like I said, the guy has everything you could want physically as a hockey player. But what does that say? Claude smothers talent? Well, Kessel left, was productive, arguably one of the most talented players in the game, right? What did we hear his coach saying a year or two ago? That Phil has to learn there's more to the game than scoring goals. I don't see a big difference w/ Wheeler. They didn't learn it here, but eventually, they're going to have to figure out that other 90% of the game, period.

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11-21-2012, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
That may be true, but fans don't trade players. I'm fairly sure management's expectations had little to do w/ him playing like a 6'5" physical monster like Lucic. But more as a productive guy who could implement his skill, while using his size to his advantage to win battles, and out work the opposition, per the B's system. All things considered, not surprising they cashed him in when they did, and for what they received. A hard working player, who could pull his weight, they could plug right into the system.
Glad that you said that last. People were making it sound like Wheeler was thrown away. The Peverley trade was value for value, and I'm not talking about Stuart. We traded higher potential, for higher realized ability. Both teams benefitted from that trade and I'd make it again in a heartbeat, especially in the wake of the Savard injury when center/forward depth was one of our most desperate needs.


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He was on a contender here. Pressure off in Atlanta/Winnipeg, less of a structured system, not surprised at all he had some success there. Like I said, the guy has everything you could want physically as a hockey player. But what does that say? Claude smothers talent?
Heck no. He had his success in Winnipeg because they offered him a role out of necessity, that he was never going to earn here. Wheeler was never going to get the ice time it really takes to put a game together for a guy like that, in Boston on the third line. It was just a better thing all the way around for him to get a fresh start in Winnipeg.

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Well, Kessel left, was productive, arguably one of the most talented players in the game, right? What did we hear his coach saying a year or two ago? That Phil has to learn there's more to the game than scoring goals. I don't see a big difference w/ Wheeler. They didn't learn it here, but eventually, they're going to have to figure out that other 90% of the game, period.
I agree with this, but that's an odd way to put it in Wheeler's case because in a very real sense, Blake Wheeler did everything but score pretty goals. In fact that was half the criticism I heard -- if he's not going to mix it up and use his size to impose his will on the game, the least he could do is score. He was solid in his own zone, and really good in the neutral zone, but there was always something a bit off about Wheeler's offensive zone approach, and that's what a lot of people are keying in on.


Last edited by Dojji*: 11-21-2012 at 09:02 PM.
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11-21-2012, 09:13 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
Reading comprehension much?

I'll break it down for ya, Cap'n. Real nice and simple.



If Wheeler showed the intensity, intelligence, success and drive that Marchand does here, he'd be a ****ing HERO. Not a "*****" by your assertion. There's a reason we like Marchand. It's because he's GOOD. Wheeler was NOT GOOD.
Trying to highlight Marchand as a counterexample to Wheeler is, and will always be absurd because the style he plays will not work when you're 6'5". The closest analogue that will, is that very power forward you claim you didn't expect Blake Wheeler to be. And if your only point is that Wheeler should be as successful as Marchand, then you aren't really saying anything.

The fact is that Marchand and Wheeler can't be compared that way because they started from different points. Marchand exceeded extremely low expectations, and Wheeler underperformed extremely high ones. Right now they're both -- yes, both -- successful top wings on their teams, although they get there differently.

I'm sorry, I'm really trying here. I know there's a point in here somewhere, but you're obscuring it rather than illuminating it with the Marchand comparison. I can think of better examples than Marchand of where Wheeler needed to do better, on our own team in the last few years. Case in point -- everything Wheeler needs to master to be a complete player was something Mark Recchi did particularly well while he was in a Bruins uniform.

My only point is that if you took a step back and looked at the whole package, what we had in Blake Wheeler wasn't that bad a package -- just because you could have legitimately expected to get more, doesn't mean that the player that was "sucks." I'll always resent that kind of binary thinking.

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I know you like to think yourself as more savvy than the rest of us gronks who cheer for this team. But if you hop off your high horse for a moment, you'd see why some of us were ACTUALLY frustrated with his play. By reading the reasons we put in black and white.

If you disagree with THAT rationale, I'm more than willing to have that conversation with you. And civilly as well. But to continue to go back to "you expected him to be something that he wasn't" is flat-out IGNORING the dialogue and polluting it into terms that make YOU feel just.
Actually no, I don't think it is, because you have to ask the question of why Wheeler in particular drew so much attention and disgust from fans. It's not that the package was all bad, just about everyone admits that Wheeler was pretty solid in his own zone and that the package was at least adequate third line wing material. The real issue is that people didn't want to settle for Wheeler as a third liner, and the question becomes, why?

And from seeing who else they had a tendency to cheer for and defend, it's pretty clear to me that if Wheeler was about 4 inches shorter, a lot of people would have laid off him more, and settled for Wheeler in the role he settled into. That's what I come away with when I look at the issue behind the issue, and I feel comfortable enough in that to stick to my guns.

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If it seems that I'm having a conversation with myself, it's because at times you seem to lack an input. All output. Which is unfortunate, because you're a bright ****ing guy... And it makes me second-guess myself when I agree with you (which I often do).
Well, I thank you for the backhanded compliment. :/


Last edited by Dojji*: 11-21-2012 at 09:19 PM.
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11-21-2012, 11:42 PM
  #71
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Saying Bruins fans had issues with Thornton because he didn't truck people or whatever is actually a lie.

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11-22-2012, 08:28 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Saying Bruins fans had issues with Thornton because he didn't truck people or whatever is actually a lie.
Indeed.

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