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OEL to Edm

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Old
11-19-2012, 06:42 AM
  #101
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I really like Eberle, and would love him on my team. That said, as a fan of neither team, OEL > Eberle. As has been said, #1 Dmen have more value and are much tougher to find than top line wingers. When is the last time a true #1 Dman hit UFA and signed with another team? There may be one more recent, but the last one that comes to mind for me is Niedermayer. It doesn't happen often.

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Old
11-19-2012, 10:34 AM
  #102
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IMO, OEL will never win a Norris.

If he is a franchise defenseman then I guess the bar is starting to be set pretty low. To say that Eberle is a franchise forward also sets the bar pretty low.

IMO, OEL is being really over-valued.

He's a step down from the best.

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11-19-2012, 11:13 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by ThePhoenixx View Post
IMO, OEL will never win a Norris.

If he is a franchise defenseman then I guess the bar is starting to be set pretty low. To say that Eberle is a franchise forward also sets the bar pretty low.

IMO, OEL is being really over-valued.

He's a step down from the best.
What is a franchise forward/defenseman, then? Isn't it a player you can build the future of your team around? That is exactly what OEL is, therefor: OEL = franchise defenseman.

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11-19-2012, 11:24 AM
  #104
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Homegrown goalies are rare. You are also overlooking the simple fact that you don't need a 'franchise' goalie to win. See Smith, Mike. OEL was a huge part of the Coyotes run and I think most GMs in the league would sit on him unless you offered some kind of crazy package. A straight-across trade doesn't do anything for the Coyotes. It arguably makes them worse, given OEL's role.

Surefire #1 Dmen are worth a lot. Ones as young as OEL? Even more.
YOu know... there was a time on these boards where Philly was NEVER going to trade Joni Pitkanen... he was a generational talent don't you know... had scored more ppg in his first 3 pro seasons than Nick Lidstrom.

Even one month before the Joni Pitkanen trade, HFBoards was up in arms when oilfans put forward a deal based on Lupul. And look what happened!

I don't think OEL is in this category, (young elite players who fell off the map) but it does remind us that we should all have some humility with young players, especially goalies & Dmen, who seem to have more ups and downs in their development at a young age.

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11-19-2012, 11:36 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
YOu know... there was a time on these boards where Philly was NEVER going to trade Joni Pitkanen... he was a generational talent don't you know... had scored more ppg in his first 3 pro seasons than Nick Lidstrom.

Even one month before the Joni Pitkanen trade, HFBoards was up in arms when oilfans put forward a deal based on Lupul. And look what happened!

I don't think OEL is in this category, (young elite players who fell off the map) but it does remind us that we should all have some humility with young players, especially goalies & Dmen, who seem to have more ups and downs in their development at a young age.
That's a two-way street.

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11-19-2012, 11:43 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
YOu know... there was a time on these boards where Philly was NEVER going to trade Joni Pitkanen... he was a generational talent don't you know... had scored more ppg in his first 3 pro seasons than Nick Lidstrom.

Even one month before the Joni Pitkanen trade, HFBoards was up in arms when oilfans put forward a deal based on Lupul. And look what happened!

I don't think OEL is in this category, (young elite players who fell off the map) but it does remind us that we should all have some humility with young players, especially goalies & Dmen, who seem to have more ups and downs in their development at a young age.
My God... you're right.

Somebody tell St. Louis to trade Pietrangelo before it's too late... to the Isles preferrably.

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11-19-2012, 01:25 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
Homegrown goalies are rare. You are also overlooking the simple fact that you don't need a 'franchise' goalie to win. See Smith, Mike. OEL was a huge part of the Coyotes run and I think most GMs in the league would sit on him unless you offered some kind of crazy package. A straight-across trade doesn't do anything for the Coyotes. It arguably makes them worse, given OEL's role.

Surefire #1 Dmen are worth a lot. Ones as young as OEL? Even more.
You might be taking my example out of context. I was simply using it to show the other user i was responding to that judging trade value by position is not an absolute way to determine value.

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11-19-2012, 01:39 PM
  #108
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My God... you're right.

Somebody tell St. Louis to trade Pietrangelo before it's too late... to the Isles preferrably.
C'mon...are you comparing OEL to Pietrangelo. OEL will NEVER be as good as Piets. HF, for some reason, seems to be in love with OEL. I'm a big fan as well, but I cannot honestly say that he is one of the top 25 D's in the league at this point in time.

I, personally, wouldn't do the Eberle for OEL trade straight up.

Reasons being:
1) In only his second season in the NHL, Eberle was a top 5 RW (top 15 overall) scorer in the league, and only 2nd to Giroux in pts/gm as a RW. There's no reason to suggest that those #'s won't get better.
2) He loves the city, and is an active participant in the community.
3) Has a great chemistry with the core group of young guys on the team (Hall, RNH, Gags, PRV...etc)
4) was a +5 on a team that finished 29th in the league.

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11-19-2012, 01:48 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Phenomenon13 View Post
Perhaps I am undervaluing OEL here and i apologize for that. Looking deeper into his numbers do suggest he is a better player than i thought he was. The reasoning for my agreement for the trade was because PHoenix already has a number one in Yandle that they could potentially deal for a gamebreaker in the front. Both teams can deal from a position of strength to solve their respective weaknesses. Another potential reason could be that many of PHoenix's top 6 players are aging and perhaps some more youth could help.

However, I do not like some of your reasoning for why OEL is better. OEL has the potential to be a norris but that doesn't give him norris defenseman value. May I have the source of your information where you got that information regarding gmdm believing OEL is a norris candidate. By your logic, Eberle could be a potential rocket richard winner, hart trophy winner, etc... However, both are unliekly to win these awards due to superior competition. I personally view OEL a tier below Chara, Karlsson, Doughty, Weber, Pietrangelo (The Norris Defensemen) just as i view eberle below the generational talents such as crosby, ovechkin, malkin, etc...

I do agree with the statement that wingers are easier to find but that shouldn't neccessarily give them more value. The better player should have the more value and in my opinion Eberle is currently the better player but that can change in the future, something i cannot predict.
GMDM in two live interviews that I have seen said he is a Norris candidate. I agree that he is not in the tier you mentioned, but only because he has played only one year. OEL is the Coyotes most valuable asset, so I doubt they trade him. His late regular season performance and his playoff performance against the top lines of Chicago, Nashville and L.A., are why his value has taken off.

If you look past statistics, OEL is better at his position then Eberle today, in my opinion. I think Eberle is a great player, but there are way more wingers at his level then D-men at OEL's level.

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11-19-2012, 03:36 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
I, personally, wouldn't do the Eberle for OEL trade straight up.

Reasons being:
1) In only his second season in the NHL, Eberle was a top 5 RW (top 15 overall) scorer in the league, and only 2nd to Giroux in pts/gm as a RW.
Just wanted to mention that Eberle was 2nd in the league behind only Malkin in points per minute for players with 25+ games. In his second year, on a team that didn't score a lot...

So to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra427 View Post
If you look past statistics, OEL is better at his position then Eberle today, in my opinion. I think Eberle is a great player, but there are way more wingers at his level then D-men at OEL's level.
For 1st line wingers, points per minute is pretty much the most important and Eberle was the best in the entire league last year. Why should we look past that?

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11-19-2012, 03:41 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
C'mon...are you comparing OEL to Pietrangelo. OEL will NEVER be as good as Piets. HF, for some reason, seems to be in love with OEL. I'm a big fan as well, but I cannot honestly say that he is one of the top 25 D's in the league at this point in time.

I, personally, wouldn't do the Eberle for OEL trade straight up.

Reasons being:
1) In only his second season in the NHL, Eberle was a top 5 RW (top 15 overall) scorer in the league, and only 2nd to Giroux in pts/gm as a RW. There's no reason to suggest that those #'s won't get better.
2) He loves the city, and is an active participant in the community.
3) Has a great chemistry with the core group of young guys on the team (Hall, RNH, Gags, PRV...etc)
4) was a +5 on a team that finished 29th in the league.
This confuses me, how?

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11-19-2012, 03:44 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
Just wanted to mention that Eberle was 2nd in the league behind only Malkin in points per minute for players with 25+ games. In his second year, on a team that didn't score a lot...

So to this:


For 1st line wingers, points per minute is pretty much the most important and Eberle was the best in the entire league last year. Why should we look past that?
I mean yeah its a great stat, but I hope you mean in terms of his point per minute stat and your not declaring him the best winger of all of last year....

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11-19-2012, 03:49 PM
  #113
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I mean yeah its a great stat, but I hope you mean in terms of his point per minute stat and your not declaring him the best winger of all of last year....
No, let me go on record and say I don't think he's the best winger in the league. But he has had tremendous success and I want to spread the word. Eberle is good.

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11-19-2012, 03:50 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
No, let me go on record and say I don't think he's the best winger in the league. But he has had tremendous success and I want to spread the word. Eberle is good.
Agreed, I think he'll become a huge scorer in the league and will have a very successful career

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11-19-2012, 04:00 PM
  #115
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Agreed, I think he'll become a huge scorer in the league and will have a very successful career
I just haven't seen enough from OEL thus far to warrant such a trade. I mean, realistically, is HF saying that OEL is better than a top 10 winger.

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11-19-2012, 04:15 PM
  #116
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Why would either team do this?

1. OEL had a fantastic season, but that 1 great season in the real world is not worth an all-star forward.
2. Phoenix/Tippett play a great 2way style of hockey. As much as I love Eberle, he is essentially a 1 way forward.
3. Both players are part of their teams young core. Yandle being traded is much more realistic.
4. If the Oil traded Eberle, they are very much gambling on Yakupov/Hesmky staying healthy...
5. Justin Schultz is clearly going to be the PP QB. And with the emergence of Klefbom, Musil etc.., the Oil will be in a position where they won't have to give away key players.
5. OEL will be due for a raise soon enough. With the cap in question and RNH not signed, I doubt they would risk it.

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11-19-2012, 04:58 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
I just haven't seen enough from OEL thus far to warrant such a trade. I mean, realistically, is HF saying that OEL is better than a top 10 winger.
I can think of more than 10 wings I rather have on the Coyotes than Eberle. And this Coyote fan rather keep Oliver Ekman-Larsson than trade him. You can tell, once he matures physically, he will be a very special player.

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11-19-2012, 05:22 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
I can think of more than 10 wings I rather have on the Coyotes than Eberle. And this Coyote fan rather keep Oliver Ekman-Larsson than trade him. You can tell, once he matures physically, he will be a very special player.
And I can think of more than 10 dmen i'd rather have than OEL. Again, I understand that OEL is probably worth a bit more than Eberle, especially if he continues to develop and doesn't show signs of regression. But Ebs is great too and I wouldn't trade him. Eberle is already a special player.

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11-19-2012, 05:46 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
I can think of more than 10 wings I rather have on the Coyotes than Eberle. And this Coyote fan rather keep Oliver Ekman-Larsson than trade him. You can tell, once he matures physically, he will be a very special player.
You may be able to think of 10 wings you would take over Ebs...and that's your opinion. I, on the other hand, am basing my opinion on stats. A 2nd year player in the NHL, had as good a year as any winger in the league...certainly worthy of being mentioned in the top 10 wingers. The stats simply show that that's the case. On top of that, he was a + player on a team that gave up more goals that they scored.

The same cannot be said of OEL as far as D's are concerned. I would not rank him in the top 25 (based on performance last year). To boot, he was a - player on a team that emphasized D. Don't get me wrong, I love the potential that OEL brings to the table, but it's still just "potential" at this point. We have seen many instances where that potential does not pan out, and given the chance, I would take the sure thing in Eberle, over OEL (who hasn't fully shown us his full potential yet). A 70-85 pt wingers don't grow on trees.

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11-19-2012, 05:54 PM
  #120
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I'd rather have OEL than Eberle.

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11-19-2012, 05:55 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
You may be able to think of 10 wings you would take over Ebs...and that's your opinion. I, on the other hand, am basing my opinion on stats. A 2nd year player in the NHL, had as good a year as any winger in the league...certainly worthy of being mentioned in the top 10 wingers. The stats simply show that that's the case. On top of that, he was a + player on a team that gave up more goals that they scored.

The same cannot be said of OEL as far as D's are concerned. I would not rank him in the top 25 (based on performance last year). To boot, he was a - player on a team that emphasized D. Don't get me wrong, I love the potential that OEL brings to the table, but it's still just "potential" at this point. We have seen many instances where that potential does not pan out, and given the chance, I would take the sure thing in Eberle, over OEL (who hasn't fully shown us his full potential yet). A 70-85 pt wingers don't grow on trees.
Who are the 25 d-men you'd take over OEL? Because if your solely basing it off performance last year, I don't see how he's not in there.

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11-19-2012, 06:00 PM
  #122
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I'd rather have OEL than Eberle.
Of course, I'm sure you would!!!!

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11-19-2012, 06:05 PM
  #123
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Who are the 25 d-men you'd take over OEL? Because if your solely basing it off performance last year, I don't see how he's not in there.
Here's 30 D's based on stats alone.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

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11-19-2012, 06:07 PM
  #124
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Trying to judge a defenseman strictly by stats is a horribly flawed approach.

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11-19-2012, 06:12 PM
  #125
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OEL lead his team in ice time en route to a Conference Finals birth. He did so while playing for a head coach who is notoriously tough on young players, has zero patience for mistakes, and has incredibly high standards for execution of his system. That's a lot for a young guy. I'm not going to get into an Eberle versus OEL debate because it is completely pointless at this juncture in their respective careers. Neither team would trade one for the other. Having said that, I have a very strong feeling that the loudest critics of OEL in this thread are the folks that have watched him play the least.

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