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Old
11-19-2012, 02:57 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
We wouldn't be looking at Zajac for Kesler if he was to explore free agency.

Assuming he did turn down a contract extention...what would the asking price on Zajac be?
Depends on whether or not we're in playoff position, and I have no reason to believe that we would not be.

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Old
11-19-2012, 03:48 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
I love how Kovalchuk's contract is just called "awful" by everyone

but they fail to mention that he is a top 10 player in the league signed to a REASONABLE cap hit. how is that "awful" exactly?
We know exactly what its like to have a top 10 player signed to a reasonable cap hit & get told by other team fans that its really a crap deal

In saying that I would expect more Van fans to understand Cap Circumventing contracts...

I wouldn't do this trade but its not because of the contract.

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Old
11-19-2012, 06:35 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
We wouldn't be looking at Zajac for Kesler if he was to explore free agency.

Assuming he did turn down a contract extention...what would the asking price on Zajac be?
If the Devils were to trade Zajac, it would be with them falling out of playoff position. That being said, they would likely want a first round pick and a forward prospect. Depending on the prospect, another player as well.

Zajac's value is questionable to everyone, maybe something like Kassian and a first. Although there's varying opinions on what he's worth. I asked a Chicago fan if they'd do Stalberg, McNeil, and 1st and some were okay and some thought it was overpayment.

What would you pay, including young forwards or prospects and a first?

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Old
11-19-2012, 06:38 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
If the Devils were to trade Zajac, it would be with them falling out of playoff position. That being said, they would likely want a first round pick and a forward prospect. Depending on the prospect, another player as well.

Zajac's value is questionable to everyone, maybe something like Kassian and a first. Although there's varying opinions on what he's worth. I asked a Chicago fan if they'd do Stalberg, McNeil, and 1st and some were okay and some thought it was overpayment.

What would you pay, including young forwards or prospects and a first?
Maybe Raymond, Schroeder/Lack(how is NJ for goalie prospects?) and a 1st?

Although to be honest if we throw a futures package at a rental, I'd rather it be a RW, just due to positional need.

Also, I think Zajac is unlikely to re-sign with us, most likely he goes to Winnipeg if he leaves the Devils.

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11-19-2012, 06:41 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Maybe Raymond, Schroeder/Lack(how is NJ for goalie prospects?) and a 1st?

Although to be honest if we throw a futures package at a rental, I'd rather it be a RW, just due to positional need.

Also, I think Zajac is unlikely to re-sign with us, most likely he goes to Winnipeg if he leaves the Devils.
Devils don't need goalie prospects, Lack may be better than the ones we currently have, but there's absolutely no room for him in the system. There's many things I'd want back in exchange for Zajac before a goaltending prospect. Raymond wouldn't have much value to us, as he is a UFA at years end.

The structure of the deal is pretty good, but the UFA part is my only concern. How is Schroeder as well, from what I've seen and read he seems to be more of a third line all-around guy at the NHL level.

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Old
11-19-2012, 06:48 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Devils don't need goalie prospects, Lack may be better than the ones we currently have, but there's absolutely no room for him in the system. There's many things I'd want back in exchange for Zajac before a goaltending prospect. Raymond wouldn't have much value to us, as he is a UFA at years end.

The structure of the deal is pretty good, but the UFA part is my only concern. How is Schroeder as well, from what I've seen and read he seems to be more of a third line all-around guy at the NHL level.
Schroeder has great speed, skill, and work ethic, however his size is a bit of a question mark, so I don't think he'd do well in a third line checking role(a bit of a problem, as we have Henrik and Kesler set in stone in our top-6). He's primarily a playmaker, but because of that and his lack of quality linemates over the years, his point totals don't look to impressive, but he does generate a lot of chances that proper NHL calibre players might have capitalized on, as well as being quite solid in his own zone.

So a slightly high-risk, high-return prospect, his potential is likely Derek Roy, but better defensively and with slightly less offense.

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Old
11-19-2012, 07:31 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Devils don't need goalie prospects, Lack may be better than the ones we currently have, but there's absolutely no room for him in the system. There's many things I'd want back in exchange for Zajac before a goaltending prospect. Raymond wouldn't have much value to us, as he is a UFA at years end.

The structure of the deal is pretty good, but the UFA part is my only concern. How is Schroeder as well, from what I've seen and read he seems to be more of a third line all-around guy at the NHL level.
Like the above poster noted, we're not quite sure how his game will translate to the NHL. He looks better than the numbers he puts up indicate, but it's possible that trend will continue in the show too. I think your read on him is pretty fair, expecting he'll develop into a decent 3rd line guy. Brendan Morrison lite is the best comparison I can come up with for him.

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Old
11-19-2012, 07:37 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeslerKrony View Post
Luongo or Schneider (I'm assuming NJ wants Schneider)
Kesler
Kassian

for

Kovalchuk
Zajac (going to UFA)


Win the cup.

P.S. Value is a bit off, but at least I added something of value on both sides. Obviously NJ will soon be in need of a starting goalie, and looking to have a younger top 6 core to grow with Henrique, etc.
No from Vancouver, not enough value coming for us to trade Luongo.

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Old
11-19-2012, 07:52 PM
  #109
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Zajac's trade value is entirely dependent on where the Devils are in the standings at the deadline. I would err on the side of history and assume the Devils will make the playoffs, and therefore Zajac will not be available for trade.

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Old
11-20-2012, 04:41 AM
  #110
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no thanks, Kovalchuk is too important to our team

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:00 AM
  #111
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I think the value is actually fairly decent, but it's not something NJD would do. The whole point of getting Kesler on the Devils would be for a cup run, and getting rid of Kovalchuk doesn't help one bit. While I do believe the values okay, we're either going to make our team better now, or the future.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:23 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeslerKrony View Post
I seem him trading Schneider if it means that we have two legimate and scary scoring lines and still have a starting goalie in Luongo. NJ fans would hate trading Kovalchuk but I see management doing it if they are worried about the term.
Thats what you think, but I once again do not see gillis trading schneider after signing him to that contract, and AV going with him as our guy in the playoffs, I also truely believe the damage has been done with lou, he will be a team player for now, but is wanting to move on and will be traded as soon as a decent offer is provided to gillis. Schneider is our goalie or being groomed to be our full time starter...imo.

I personally think these trades with schneider on here are somewhat unrealistic. He is included on every canucks trade on here like hes being openly shopped.


Last edited by Orca Smash: 11-20-2012 at 05:30 AM.
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Old
12-14-2012, 10:49 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Orca Smash View Post
Thats what you think, but I once again do not see gillis trading schneider after signing him to that contract, and AV going with him as our guy in the playoffs, I also truely believe the damage has been done with lou, he will be a team player for now, but is wanting to move on and will be traded as soon as a decent offer is provided to gillis. Schneider is our goalie or being groomed to be our full time starter...imo.

I personally think these trades with schneider on here are somewhat unrealistic. He is included on every canucks trade on here like hes being openly shopped.
While I personally believe Schneider is definitely not for sale, if you can get a top 10 player like Kovy for him, you make that trade 9 times out of 10.

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Old
12-14-2012, 10:53 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
No from Vancouver, not enough value coming for us to trade Luongo.
That's your reasoning? Lol?

Also, I think it's good value from both sides IMO

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:33 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
Depends on whether or not we're in playoff position, and I have no reason to believe that we would not be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
If the Devils were to trade Zajac, it would be with them falling out of playoff position. That being said, they would likely want a first round pick and a forward prospect. Depending on the prospect, another player as well.

Zajac's value is questionable to everyone, maybe something like Kassian and a first. Although there's varying opinions on what he's worth. I asked a Chicago fan if they'd do Stalberg, McNeil, and 1st and some were okay and some thought it was overpayment.

What would you pay, including young forwards or prospects and a first?
My apologies gentlemen, I hadn't checked this thread in some time. I would have to assume that the Devils would need to be out of a playoff position to move him, and I don't assume that would happen, and that he has rejected an offer prior to the deadline.

I'd be in for a 1st, likely in the same league as Chicago, depending on when we meet in the playoffs , and if forward prospects are what's needed, we are somewhat bereft. Schroeder is available if Zajac is the return, naturally, but Jensen and Kassian are basically no goes. Guys like Rodin (higher risk, but also higher reward), Schneider (Stefan not Cory), Sweatt, Friesen, and Archibald are our bottom six/tweener prospects, pick one if you like. You can just have Kellan Tochkin if you like too. Mallet and Gaunce I'd consider parting with, but recent draft picks aren't typically traded away so soon.

We would presumably have to add a forward roster player, and I'd be looking at someone such as Booth. Higgins/Hansen/Burrows would be worth far more to us then to the Devils, and players such as Raymond don't seem to hold much value around here.

Gaunce+Raymond+1st or Booth+Rodin/Sweatt+1st if we can discuss contracts with him prior to the trade, at the deadline, and that would be my absolute maximum. I just feel that the first will be more valuable to us this year then in others, with all the hype about a "deep, 2003 style draft". If some cobbled combination could be made without the first, I'd be willing to work with that for more value, but we move into quality vs. quantity.

Once again: Kellan Tochkin.

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Old
12-15-2012, 12:01 AM
  #116
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It's a deal! Please?

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Old
12-15-2012, 06:45 AM
  #117
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Never in a million years. Kovy isn't going

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Old
12-15-2012, 01:37 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
My apologies gentlemen, I hadn't checked this thread in some time. I would have to assume that the Devils would need to be out of a playoff position to move him, and I don't assume that would happen, and that he has rejected an offer prior to the deadline.

I'd be in for a 1st, likely in the same league as Chicago, depending on when we meet in the playoffs , and if forward prospects are what's needed, we are somewhat bereft. Schroeder is available if Zajac is the return, naturally, but Jensen and Kassian are basically no goes. Guys like Rodin (higher risk, but also higher reward), Schneider (Stefan not Cory), Sweatt, Friesen, and Archibald are our bottom six/tweener prospects, pick one if you like. You can just have Kellan Tochkin if you like too. Mallet and Gaunce I'd consider parting with, but recent draft picks aren't typically traded away so soon.

We would presumably have to add a forward roster player, and I'd be looking at someone such as Booth. Higgins/Hansen/Burrows would be worth far more to us then to the Devils, and players such as Raymond don't seem to hold much value around here.

Gaunce+Raymond+1st or Booth+Rodin/Sweatt+1st if we can discuss contracts with him prior to the trade, at the deadline, and that would be my absolute maximum. I just feel that the first will be more valuable to us this year then in others, with all the hype about a "deep, 2003 style draft". If some cobbled combination could be made without the first, I'd be willing to work with that for more value, but we move into quality vs. quantity.

Once again: Kellan Tochkin.
Dude, Stefan freaking Schneider is not going to be part of a package for any player. You listed a heck of a lot of C prospects there.

The only prospects we have that might have value to other teams are: Kassian, Jensen, Schroeder,Gaunce, and maybe, maybe Rodin. Lack for goaltending and Connauton on defense as well.

If we were sure we could re-sign Zajac, not one of those players would be untouchable for me, however I just don't see a fit for him with us, and I'd rather go after Corey Perry or something.

For Kovalchuk I'd do something along the lines of Schneider + Kassian + 1st, assuming that NJ wants to rebuild on the fly.
(i.e. If Brodeur retires and Zajac is looking to test UFA/go to Winnipeg, then I could see New Jersey moving Kovalchuk for young players).

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Old
12-15-2012, 01:58 PM
  #119
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Big no from New Jersey.

Kovalchuk's value is higher than when he was traded, he was going to be an UFA...

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Old
12-15-2012, 02:52 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
We know exactly what its like to have a top 10 player signed to a reasonable cap hit & get told by other team fans that its really a crap deal

In saying that I would expect more Van fans to understand Cap Circumventing contracts...

I wouldn't do this trade but its not because of the contract.
Which top 10 player are you speaking of? I dont see any on the Canucks roster.

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Old
12-15-2012, 03:01 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Which top 10 player are you speaking of? I dont see any on the Canucks roster.
I'm assuming he meant at his position. Luongo is a top-10 goalie(top-5 imo), Kovalchuk is a top-10 winger.

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Old
12-15-2012, 03:03 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Dude, Stefan freaking Schneider is not going to be part of a package for any player. You listed a heck of a lot of C prospects there.

The only prospects we have that might have value to other teams are: Kassian, Jensen, Schroeder,Gaunce, and maybe, maybe Rodin. Lack for goaltending and Connauton on defense as well.

If we were sure we could re-sign Zajac, not one of those players would be untouchable for me, however I just don't see a fit for him with us, and I'd rather go after Corey Perry or something.

For Kovalchuk I'd do something along the lines of Schneider + Kassian + 1st, assuming that NJ wants to rebuild on the fly.
(i.e. If Brodeur retires and Zajac is looking to test UFA/go to Winnipeg, then I could see New Jersey moving Kovalchuk for young players).
I never said they were all winners, but I was asked what our forward prospect group looked like. As I said, it's unimpressive past the first two I don't think we could fathom trading for a UFA Zajac. If everything is an absolute certainty, yeah, Kassian and Jensen could be off the "untouchables" list, but there is no such thing as a certainty.

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Old
12-15-2012, 04:40 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I'm assuming he meant at his position. Luongo is a top-10 goalie(top-5 imo), Kovalchuk is a top-10 winger.
Winger? More like top 10 forward. And if you feel like arguing it, list 9 wingers better than him. And Lu as top 5 is not right, top 10 yes.

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Old
12-15-2012, 04:45 PM
  #124
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Winger? More like top 10 forward. And if you feel like arguing it, list 9 wingers better than him. And Lu as top 5 is not right, top 10 yes.
What? Kovalchuk could very well be a top-10 forward or or top-5 winger or whatever. He certainly has more value than Luongo.

That's why the OP had us adding Kesler + Kassian while NJ only added Zajac.

I'm not going to get into a debate about whether Luongo is top-5 or not, but I will say that his ES sv% over the past 3 years is second only to Lundqvist.

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Old
12-15-2012, 04:48 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What? Kovalchuk could very well be a top-10 forward or or top-5 winger or whatever. He certainly has more value than Luongo.

That's why the OP had us adding Kesler + Kassian while NJ only added Zajac.

I'm not going to get into a debate about whether Luongo is top-5 or not, but I will say that his ES sv% over the past 3 years is second only to Lundqvist.
I knew that you knew that he had more value. I'm just saying, there is not 9 wingers better than him. And if his view that there is, then list em.

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