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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VII: The Last Waltz "Cut the sheet & drop the puck!"

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Old
11-19-2012, 07:16 PM
  #176
Glen Teflon Sather
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So what's the over/under it ends by 9?

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11-19-2012, 07:25 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Maineice11 View Post
@drosennhl (Dan Rosen)
"Whoops, Brendan Shanahan is not in the meeting tonight but he is in the building burning the midnight oil."

nevermind.
What the hell is he doing? Watching old videos of headshots?

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11-19-2012, 07:26 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What the hell is he doing? Watching old videos of headshots?
video editing for when the season starts he already has material lol

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Old
11-19-2012, 07:34 PM
  #179
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Your argument is "Yea, sure, you're not making money with your hockey operation, but you're making money elsewhere so its all good."
Wow do you not get my argument whatsoever...

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11-19-2012, 07:38 PM
  #180
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Wow do you not get my argument whatsoever...
Other than the fact its a huge distraction, just like the article? No, not at all.

I'd love for you to try to explain though - without your explanation quickly twisting off on a tangent. Good luck with that.

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11-19-2012, 07:46 PM
  #181
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Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
meeting is roughly 90 minutes going ...

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11-19-2012, 07:50 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Other than the fact its a huge distraction, just like the article? No, not at all.

I'd love for you to try to explain though - without your explanation quickly twisting off on a tangent. Good luck with that.
I'll do it in one sentence: The owner wouldn't be "making money elsewhere" without owning the hockey team.

The article uses the term "gateway" to describe franchise ownership in this situation. That's appropriate.

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11-19-2012, 07:51 PM
  #183
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meetings over

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
CBA mtngs have just ended, or so I'm told.

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11-19-2012, 07:56 PM
  #184
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Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris
The NHL's CBA talks will carry over to tomorrow.

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11-19-2012, 07:57 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
meetings over

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
CBA mtngs have just ended, or so I'm told.
I was hoping itd be longer....prlly Jacobs fault again

EDIT:
@reporterchris
"The NHL's CBA talks will carry over to tomorrow."

Good news!

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11-19-2012, 08:00 PM
  #186
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thats really all you could have hoped for to be honest.

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11-19-2012, 09:03 PM
  #187
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Let's see....

No meeting for a bit. What's the new proposal?

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/ey...resume-tuesday

I wonder if a new proposal will be made on Tuesday?

My view: If that's the best the parties can do it might be time for a 2 week hiatus?

Otherwise, I'm beginning to wonder if free food is served?

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11-19-2012, 09:06 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Why do the players think the NHL was right (under the last CBA) and the rest of the sporting world is wrong?

Here's a thought... Since the NFL is a healthy league, and makes ridiculous money for all involved, why not use them as a blueprint? Realizing that they have a fantastic TV contract and as a revenue generator the NFL is light years ahead... What would be the argument to paying NHL players 57% when NFL players aren't even close to that? You'd think that since the NHL isn't close revenue wise they'd pay even less than 50% to players.
The NFL expects everyone to spend to the cap, allows for bonus money, and uses all the tv money to pay the players. Its a great model but totally unrealistic in hockey. If hockey followed the NFL a team cap would be $10m and all the talent would be in Europe like soccer.

Hockey is like baseball, a huge divide among teams. In baseball, some teams exist to simply provide an opponent for the Yankees and Dodgers. Some teams spend, others collect revenue checks that far surpass their payroll. The gap isn't that big in hockey but the Floridas will never be able to keep up with a cap structured the way it currently is. For everyone, NFL is the goal. Its not realistic yet.

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11-19-2012, 09:11 PM
  #189
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Jacobs there again?

If so, can we please not have that POS present at anymore meetings...thanks...sincerely, everyone in the world who cares about the sport of hockey.

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11-19-2012, 09:19 PM
  #190
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From what I can gather, the NHLPA bringing 18 players to the table (and most new from what I can remember) was to have them present their side of the story about contracting rights, and see if the NHL can think about that.

In the mean time, the NHLPA will probably construct a final proposal that meets the NHL halfway in the contracting rights area and hope for the best from there. It's all up in the air, but that's my thoughts.

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Old
11-19-2012, 09:25 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
From what I can gather, the NHLPA bringing 18 players to the table (and most new from what I can remember) was to have them present their side of the story about contracting rights, and see if the NHL can think about that.

In the mean time, the NHLPA will probably construct a final proposal that meets the NHL halfway in the contracting rights area and hope for the best from there. It's all up in the air, but that's my thoughts.
Makes sense.

I do believe that the NHL is still hopeful that the season can start in mid December but time is rapidly going by (let's see when the nhl cancels and how many Dec games are nixed).

I suspect that a late December start is much more likely with camps
beginning mid DEC.


Last edited by ltrangerfan: 11-19-2012 at 09:32 PM.
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Old
11-19-2012, 09:32 PM
  #192
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Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl
Source,potential Tuesday meeting may get moved to Wednesday.Result of todays negotiations,PA working internally on economic concepts #TSN

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11-19-2012, 09:39 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl
Source,potential Tuesday meeting may get moved to Wednesday.Result of todays negotiations,PA working internally on economic concepts #TSN
Hopefully it's not a delinked offer.

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11-19-2012, 09:42 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
The NFL expects everyone to spend to the cap, allows for bonus money, and uses all the tv money to pay the players. Its a great model but totally unrealistic in hockey. If hockey followed the NFL a team cap would be $10m and all the talent would be in Europe like soccer.

Hockey is like baseball, a huge divide among teams. In baseball, some teams exist to simply provide an opponent for the Yankees and Dodgers. Some teams spend, others collect revenue checks that far surpass their payroll. The gap isn't that big in hockey but the Floridas will never be able to keep up with a cap structured the way it currently is. For everyone, NFL is the goal. Its not realistic yet.
Right. Everyone's model is the NFL. It's not realistic yet, I agree. But that should be the goal. I notice no other leagues (including MLS, WNBA, or MILL) don't say "Hey the NHL is paying their players 57% and look at how well they're doing... We should do that!"

It's time for a change... A move towards solvency. Oddly enough... The CBA expired so now is the perfect time to fix things that didn't work, and move the league forward in the economic sense. The owners know that. And since they OWN their teams and therefore the league I'm sure they'll get it. The players will get lost wages and lost time on their career. In the end that's the only way.

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Old
11-20-2012, 12:32 AM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
"Hey the NHL is paying their players 57%

The NHL is absolutely NOT paying 57% in salaries. The cap was set at 57%, but not a single team has ever reached that cap because it would mean no room for a team to maneuver in calling up players. So even the most free-spending teams still leave a couple million in available cap space, which is 4-5% of the cap. So even the highest-spending teams actually spend no more than 52-53% on salaries.

Then there are a whole bunch of teams that don't come close to the cap. The floor is 43% and there are plenty of teams close to the floor.

All in all, under the old agreement, less than 50% was paid off in salaries.

This whole BS that the league is offering a 50-50 split because they offered a 50% cap is nothing more than a PR trick meant to confuse people who are bad at math and/or logic.

If the cap will be dropped to 50%, the reality will be that the owners will be getting almost 60% of the revenue and the players will get slightly above 40%.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:01 AM
  #196
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Sources within the union have told The Post the NHLPA does anticipate contracts would be pro-rated for a truncated 2012-13, though the players at this time do not seem willing to bear equal responsibility for damage caused by the lockout that was unilaterally initiated by the league on Sept. 16.

There is the “make-whole” provision and the topic of transition with which to deal, but negotiations on these matters are dependent upon the NHLPA’s willingness to go to 50-50. That, in turn, would be dependent upon the league yielding on its demands regarding widespread contract system restrictions that are anathema to the players.

If a hard-dollars guarantee is a non-starter for the league, so is the phalanx of restrictions — including most notably a five-year contract term limit, minimal variance in annual salary and delayed eligibility for free agency and arbitration — a non-starter for the NHLPA.

It is believed the players would be willing to give on dramatically front-loaded contracts, but not much more than that. For at some point, and even fast approaching the holiday season, the proverb “ ’Tis better to give than receive” becomes a fantasy.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...wXxC0LsVCiyxmM

Make a deal.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:53 AM
  #197
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Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL

Player text on NHL meeting: "More wasted time. Our choice is either give up everything to the league or watch them cancel the season."

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11-20-2012, 06:02 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL

Player text on NHL meeting: "More wasted time. Our choice is either give up everything to the league or watch them cancel the season."
"Woe is me!"

More posturing from the players.

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11-20-2012, 06:14 AM
  #199
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"Woe is me!"

More posturing from the players.
Seriously. How about the PA actually submits a realistic offer. If the owners still refuse to engage in give and take then they might have a point.

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11-20-2012, 06:29 AM
  #200
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Billy Hunter didn't put 50-50 on the table until the CBA was negotiated. The NBA backed off some of their demands.

Quote:
Sources said that the union did not conduct a formal vote of the players assembled in the room Tuesday, opting instead for an informal "everyone agrees" consensus that authorizes Hunter and Fisher to accept a 50-50 split of basketball related income in future negotiations as long as the league makes some concessions on some of the remaining system issues.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/72...-further-talks

Fehr puts 50-50 on the table. What does he get? NHL has to increase their make whole from $211M. Fehr did bring up the back diving contract issue last night.

Quote:
Although no formal proposal was submitted, Fehr said the union did "flesh out" a component of their previous offer -- a provision to deal with the back-diving contracts the league is staunchly committed to eliminate.

Daly said the league "understood the concept when he raised it two weeks ago, and I think we understood it again tonight."
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/86...two-sides-meet

The NHL will get their desire to stop the cheating contracts.

Quote:
That Bill Daly reiterated Monday is that the league was ready to make concessions on the contractual rights of players (up to 5 years contract (etc.) if they approached their wage demands more. We'll see if players are listening
http://translate.google.com/translat...50765%2Fpublic

2 year transition period of the cap remaining at $70.2M for 12-13 and 13-14. Amnesty buyouts. Players keep free agency at 7 or 27. Arbitration remains the same. Is the NHL really committed to 2 year entry level contracts? What else does Fehr want or want to keep? Keeping something is not a concession. The PA has proposed eliminating walk away rights in arbitration.

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