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2012-2013 CIS Regular Season Discussion

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Old
11-19-2012, 10:46 AM
  #101
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2 years. But you are correct; it was an attendance disaster. I was there both years. The event was fairly well organized, but terrible crowds. CHL is King in Southern Ontario.

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11-19-2012, 11:21 AM
  #102
RED ARMY EAST
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U Cup

We know that Fredericton, Moncton, Saskatoon,Edmonton can host the event and draw good crowds, which is imperative in my mind. T-Bay was half empty from what I've been told by players and parents.
Halifax should be able to draw good crowds, but I'm not to sure? Dal played at Metro Center in front of nobody, a few weeks ago.
UBC has a great facility, but would they draw.
You need big crowds or it will become a financial nightmare for the school that hosts!
Will Dal or SMU bid for it?

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11-19-2012, 12:39 PM
  #103
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If they want to keep the rotation going then it should be in the OUA.

Sometimes you can use nationals to draw interest into an area where there has been none. The advantage of Toronto is that you would not have to designate a team as a host.

Also, when has the province of Quebec last hosted? Since their teams are in the OUA they could take a turn in the OUA place.

Another idea would be to do one year in Toronto and one in Montreal, giving the OUA two years but using two different markets.

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11-19-2012, 04:41 PM
  #104
RED ARMY EAST
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U cup

Judging by attendance of all OUA teams, outside of Nippising and Lakehead, it's a big gamble.
Who's paying, when it doesn't sell?
Many of the AUS teams get good crowds, but Arena's are too small and Acadia (Wolfville) and X (Antigonish) are just towns.
In CanadaWest, outside of Alberta and Saskatchewan, the CIS is not attended well.
Winnipeg and Calgary should be able to host, you would think?

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11-19-2012, 05:04 PM
  #105
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For the OUA, as mentioned, the only markets with solid support seem to be Nipissing and Lakehead. I am not 100% sure on what will happen, but the OHL has approved a move of the Battalion to North Bay. That has the potential to turn 2 strong OUA markets back into 1 (Thunder Bay).

If Toronto did host a nationals, I do not think they would have to hold it where the Marlies play (Exhibition Grounds). U of T's Varsity Arena holds around 4000, and Ryerson's Maple Leaf Gardens is about 3000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Varsity_Arena.JPG

(Not arguing whether or not it would work).

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11-19-2012, 05:08 PM
  #106
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Laurier vs. Lakehead Highlights



Highlights of Laurier vs. Lakehead from Saturday night. Both teams were down quite a few players, Laurier missing 2/3 of their top line (and 2 highest PPG scorers) in Tyler Stothers and Mitch Good, as well as former OHL'ers Mike Mascioli (F) who has yet to play this regular season and Dylan MacDonald (D). Lakehead was missing likely their most dangerous offensive player in Matt Caria, as well as 2 top blueliners in Mitch Fillman and Jay Gilbert.

After a 1-5-1 start, Laurier played well this past weekend, grabbing 3 of 4 points against Nationally ranked Western and Lakehead, and has now picked up 9 of a possible 10 points in their past 5 games to put them at .500 for the first time since the 2010-2011 season.


Last edited by blackmarketmob: 11-19-2012 at 08:44 PM. Reason: Typo
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11-19-2012, 06:58 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood3 View Post
Also, when has the province of Quebec last hosted? Since their teams are in the OUA they could take a turn in the OUA place.
I know UQTR hosted in 1985, and it didn't work out too good in an attendance perspective.

Don't know if McGill or Concordia hosted since.

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11-19-2012, 07:21 PM
  #108
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Maple Leaf Gardens would be an intriguing option...but it would be risky to give Ryerson a spot.

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11-19-2012, 07:39 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RED ARMY EAST View Post
We know that Fredericton, Moncton, Saskatoon,Edmonton can host the event and draw good crowds, which is imperative in my mind. T-Bay was half empty from what I've been told by players and parents.
Halifax should be able to draw good crowds, but I'm not to sure? Dal played at Metro Center in front of nobody, a few weeks ago.
UBC has a great facility, but would they draw.
You need big crowds or it will become a financial nightmare for the school that hosts!
Will Dal or SMU bid for it?
No. If you're even able to find an opinion of CIS hockey in the Vancouver area, it's likely going be that it's just a league for junior hockey failures who simply don't want to play beer league.

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11-19-2012, 07:40 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
I know UQTR hosted in 1985, and it didn't work out too good in an attendance perspective.
How big is their rink?
Quote:
Don't know if McGill or Concordia hosted since.
Some people have mentioned McGill which may seem like a natural choice but the have a tiny rink and would have to play off campus. Since the Bell Centre is out of the question what other options would they have?

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11-19-2012, 08:55 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
How big is their rink?


Some people have mentioned McGill which may seem like a natural choice but the have a tiny rink and would have to play off campus. Since the Bell Centre is out of the question what other options would they have?
http://www.qmjhlarenaguide.com/troisrivieres.htm

Suitable arena, but from what I have heard, fans in the city are more drawn to the LNAH than CIS. Perhaps someone (Dutch for example) could clarify.

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11-19-2012, 10:37 PM
  #112
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Ubc

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Originally Posted by Rocko604 View Post
No. If you're even able to find an opinion of CIS hockey in the Vancouver area, it's likely going be that it's just a league for junior hockey failures who simply don't want to play beer league.
From a CIS fan perspective, that's dissapointing! That facility, that was used in the Olympics, would be a great place to host, but it would probably be a bust.
Personally, I could give a sweet f.... If they feel that way, but it's too bad for the T-Birds.
That opinion probably comes with years and years of never getting to the University Cup.
Edmonton has the Oilers, Oil Kings and supported the Bears when hosting in 2005-06, but Alberta has a rich history, unlike UBC.


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11-19-2012, 11:03 PM
  #113
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Alberta-Hosting

The Golden Bears have a rich history but their is one key component that has changed since the last time the U of A hosted the University Cups in 2005 and 2006...the return of the Edmonton Oil Kings.
We (I was a a member of the organiizing committee) hit the home run in the '05 Nationals because of the NHL Lock-Out and used that as momentum for 2006.
Truth be known we could have made money and frankly had a greater advantage if the Tournament had stayed at Clare Drake Arena in those 2 years...but winning in OT in front of 11,000 fans in '05 or 6700 fans in '06 was worth it.
I am not sold that U of A has the will in their Athletics Department now to "go for it" with a significant guarantee...and then there is the Oild Kings a formidable secondary tenant at Rexall to compete against...because surely there would be no guaranteed room at Rexall for the University Cup with the Oilers/Oil Kings taking priority in 2015/16.
Stauffer

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11-19-2012, 11:03 PM
  #114
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Kingston would be the perfect choice if promoted right. PLUS, the town hosted the first ever University Cup with RMC/Queen's co-hosting. Kingston is the kind of town that wants to see the best hockey available, and if Queen's gets consistently better, they will be a major player soon in Ontario. Plus the K-Rock Centre had 2600 people show up for RMC/Queen's last year in the annual Carr-Harris and we are aiming for the same number, maybe even more, for RMC/Army next season there.

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11-20-2012, 05:58 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Stauffer View Post
The Golden Bears have a rich history but their is one key component that has changed since the last time the U of A hosted the University Cups in 2005 and 2006...the return of the Edmonton Oil Kings.
We (I was a a member of the organiizing committee) hit the home run in the '05 Nationals because of the NHL Lock-Out and used that as momentum for 2006.
Truth be known we could have made money and frankly had a greater advantage if the Tournament had stayed at Clare Drake Arena in those 2 years...but winning in OT in front of 11,000 fans in '05 or 6700 fans in '06 was worth it.
I am not sold that U of A has the will in their Athletics Department now to "go for it" with a significant guarantee...and then there is the Oild Kings a formidable secondary tenant at Rexall to compete against...because surely there would be no guaranteed room at Rexall for the University Cup with the Oilers/Oil Kings taking priority in 2015/16.
Stauffer
Alberta got some sell out crowds of 3,009 a few years ago, that was before the Oil Kings arrived.
Hosting Nationals might be more of a challenge in Edmonton these days?

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11-20-2012, 08:46 AM
  #116
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Halifax?

I think Halifax would be good site. The arena is big enough and in the center of town. The AUS could bid rather than a school (much like it has previously for Men's Basketball).

You don't have to give a berth to either Halifax team - you could just take the the AUS finalists. The Maritime are small, 4hrs from Halifax to Fredericton - with Acadia and SFX nearby and loyal UNB and UdeM fans, you would get a good draw from any AUS school that makes it.

If no one steps up, the CIS may have to host it on their own - then they will find out out how hard it is to organize and find the guarantee.

I'd like to see Winterpeg, but they have an NHL team.

I'd like to see Ottawa (with two schools, much like Halifax) but they have an NHL team and two Junior teams. The Civic Centre is a good rink, but not really near the downtown core. Neither school has organized something like this, so it would be a big commitment.

At this stage, the bidders may have the upper hand - if no one comes to the table, the CIS may have accept whatever committees are willing to offer as a guarantee.

The other CW Teams have a WHL team, NHL team or both to contended with. UBC has a great rink, but the timezone is a hard sell (5-7 EST is 2-4 local time).

The OUA West has too much OHL.

OUA East has Nippising, Kingston(K-Rock Centre holds 5,700) or MLG (Ryerson). I think Ottawa and MTL are hard sells - what rink and logistics.

The AUS has Moncton and Halifax.

At this point - it's a matter of who has a committee and the motivation. Nothing says you have to host.

Long Shots
- Windsor (Windsor - WFCU Centre, 6500)
- Hamilton (Copps, 19000)
- Charlottetown (UPEI - Charlottetown Civic Centre, 3600)

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11-20-2012, 09:25 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Drummer View Post
Long Shots
- Windsor (Windsor - WFCU Centre, 6500)
- Hamilton (Copps, 19000)
- Charlottetown (UPEI - Charlottetown Civic Centre, 3600)
Hamilton has no team! Besides, venues much more suitable than Copps are dotted all over southern and southwestern Ontario - Poweraid Centre (Brampton), Hershey Centre (Mississauga), Memorial Aud (Kitchener), Sun Life Arena (Kitchener), Sleeman Centre (Guelph) John Labatt Centre (London), Mattamy Centre/MLG (Toronto), Ricoh Colliseum (Toronto).

Problem is, I don't think you'll get the attendance in any of these places. OUA teams (other than Lakehead and Nipissing) routinely draw only a couple of hundred people to their games. There is almost zero CIS hockey profile in the Toronto media, and it's sporadic at best in the Kitchener-Walterloo, Guelph and London newspapers. As someone stated in an earlier post, the OHL rules in Ontario (except in Toronto, where other than the Leafs, no team in any sport is able to consistently fill any venue).

I like the suggestion about keeping it where you know the support is - the Halifax idea is a great one.


Last edited by northvanman: 11-20-2012 at 09:26 AM. Reason: typos - probably still didn't get them all
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Old
11-20-2012, 11:20 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by northvanman View Post
Hamilton has no team! Besides, venues much more suitable than Copps are dotted all over southern and southwestern Ontario - Poweraid Centre (Brampton), Hershey Centre (Mississauga), Memorial Aud (Kitchener), Sun Life Arena (Kitchener), Sleeman Centre (Guelph) John Labatt Centre (London), Mattamy Centre/MLG (Toronto), Ricoh Colliseum (Toronto).

Problem is, I don't think you'll get the attendance in any of these places. OUA teams (other than Lakehead and Nipissing) routinely draw only a couple of hundred people to their games. There is almost zero CIS hockey profile in the Toronto media, and it's sporadic at best in the Kitchener-Walterloo, Guelph and London newspapers. As someone stated in an earlier post, the OHL rules in Ontario (except in Toronto, where other than the Leafs, no team in any sport is able to consistently fill any venue).

I like the suggestion about keeping it where you know the support is - the Halifax idea is a great one.
OUA it is your turn!
I have been watching the debate regarding hosting!
It is the OUA's turn to step up!
The way I look at the participant rotation they are guaranteed 2 teams every year and sometimes three.
Why? Because they have the most teams? Or two leagues/divisions to everyone else's one?
The French English deal is that a factor?
The Kitchner Waterloo Guelph model was a disaster as mentioned previously, the Rangers were waiting to get on the ice for pregame warmup during the medal presentation one year?! nobody was there at the final game and people were waiting to get in for the junior game? Weird situation and event.
Regarding Nipissing, how do you get to North Bay! Fly to Toronto and bus in? That could be a challenge for the CW and AUS teams? Maybe not? TBAy is in the middle of no where and the tournament did nothing to raise the profile of CIS hockey. Locals love the hockey but not big enough profile to help the game. The OUA is taking advantage of them in my opinion! It lets them off the hook in the hosting debate??!
The OUA has talked the big talk and controls the vote in the CIS in all sports but do very little to promote the game nationally and take no risks for sure regarding hosting. U of Toronto ? used to be a power house and now aren't even a factor in any sport? Tired of the entrance average excuse!! Really how many more years of this does a guy have to listen to this?? Every one of the big schools have those issues so quit whining. McGill!! National Champions in hockey, nothing to help promote the big picture despite what that Earl guy says. Drop a few big name alumni stories and a few red tie things and boom see ya next year! Do really nothing to help promote the CIS, just themselves.
These are top schools in all the MacLeans rankings and they don't piss a drop to help promote the OUA or the CIS unless they are in the finals??!! They Rarely are in any sport. IMO
Regarding the OHL. Aren't the CIS, OUA and CHL partners in a few things, i read these three talking like they are yet.....? Why not get them all involved and promote?? it would be good to see a well done CIS Men's championship tournament in a place that counts in either Ontario or Quebec! Stand up gentlemen!
Or be quiet!
You fight for control but don't back it up with much firepower?
It really is your turn to stand on your head for once!

Just my opinion


Last edited by mikeandI: 11-20-2012 at 11:24 AM. Reason: punctuation
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Old
11-20-2012, 12:17 PM
  #119
blackmarketmob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northvanman View Post
Hamilton has no team! Besides, venues much more suitable than Copps are dotted all over southern and southwestern Ontario - Poweraid Centre (Brampton), Hershey Centre (Mississauga), Memorial Aud (Kitchener), Sun Life Arena (Kitchener), Sleeman Centre (Guelph) John Labatt Centre (London), Mattamy Centre/MLG (Toronto), Ricoh Colliseum (Toronto).

Problem is, I don't think you'll get the attendance in any of these places. OUA teams (other than Lakehead and Nipissing) routinely draw only a couple of hundred people to their games. There is almost zero CIS hockey profile in the Toronto media, and it's sporadic at best in the Kitchener-Walterloo, Guelph and London newspapers. As someone stated in an earlier post, the OHL rules in Ontario (except in Toronto, where other than the Leafs, no team in any sport is able to consistently fill any venue).

I like the suggestion about keeping it where you know the support is - the Halifax idea is a great one.
Agreed completely.

As for the poor attendance in Ontario, I am not sure I view it with such disdain as others. Between where I am from, live, work etc, I have the ability to attend NHL games (when there is no lockout), AHL games in either Hamilton or Toronto, and plenty of junior hockey. The Sleeman Centre (Guelph) and the Aud (Kitchener) are both closer for me to travel to than to attend a Laurier game, and have future NHL impact players, first round draft picks and even future NHL stars playing. AHL games in Toronto are quite cheap, the team is strong, and the play is well above CIS. Despite this, I typically attend only a few junior games per year, maybe 1 or 2 AHL games, and annually about 15 CIS games. I enjoy that I can buy tickets at the door for $5-$8 each instead of weeks in advance through Ticketmaster. I also enjoy that I do not have to wait for hours to get out of a parking lot, and that I can sit in the best seats even if I arrive 5 minutes before. It is as close as you can get to owning your own private hockey league.

From the sounds of it, in most of Canada with the exception of a few markets, it is this way too. I don't think CIS will ever be universally commercial and popular. But it is not just Ontario. Outside of Lakehead, Nipissing, UNB, Alberta, and Saskatchewan, are there any markets that average 1000+ during the regular season? I'm not sure there if there are any, but I just don't see that as a problem.

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11-20-2012, 01:38 PM
  #120
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Acadia usually averages around 1500...X and Moncton are usually right around 1000. Attendance for SMU seems to be up so far this year as well. UPEI has drawn quite well in recent years...Charlottetown is an interesting possibility.

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11-20-2012, 02:04 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RED ARMY EAST View Post
From a CIS fan perspective, that's dissapointing! That facility, that was used in the Olympics, would be a great place to host, but it would probably be a bust.
Personally, I could give a sweet f.... If they feel that way, but it's too bad for the T-Birds.
That opinion probably comes with years and years of never getting to the University Cup.
Edmonton has the Oilers, Oil Kings and supported the Bears when hosting in 2005-06, but Alberta has a rich history, unlike UBC.


.
I agree, it is disappointing. I think it all has to do with what you said at the end: it doesn't have a rich history. It would likely take a couple of University Cup titles for people to take notice.

People around here aren't familiar with it, and their crowds show. Averaging between 300-400 in a 5000 seat arena speaks for itself. People from the suburbs aren't going to drive to all the way to UBC for a product they don't know, when they have the WHL Giants in a more central location, along with three BCHL (Jr. A) teams in Coquitlam, Langley and Surrey.

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11-20-2012, 03:58 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by blackmarketmob View Post
Agreed completely.

As for the poor attendance in Ontario, I am not sure I view it with such disdain as others. Between where I am from, live, work etc, I have the ability to attend NHL games (when there is no lockout), AHL games in either Hamilton or Toronto, and plenty of junior hockey. The Sleeman Centre (Guelph) and the Aud (Kitchener) are both closer for me to travel to than to attend a Laurier game, and have future NHL impact players, first round draft picks and even future NHL stars playing. AHL games in Toronto are quite cheap, the team is strong, and the play is well above CIS. Despite this, I typically attend only a few junior games per year, maybe 1 or 2 AHL games, and annually about 15 CIS games. I enjoy that I can buy tickets at the door for $5-$8 each instead of weeks in advance through Ticketmaster. I also enjoy that I do not have to wait for hours to get out of a parking lot, and that I can sit in the best seats even if I arrive 5 minutes before. It is as close as you can get to owning your own private hockey league.

From the sounds of it, in most of Canada with the exception of a few markets, it is this way too. I don't think CIS will ever be universally commercial and popular. But it is not just Ontario. Outside of Lakehead, Nipissing, UNB, Alberta, and Saskatchewan, are there any markets that average 1000+ during the regular season? I'm not sure there if there are any, but I just don't see that as a problem.
All AuS schools, except Dal draw between 500-1000 fans, which is probably better than all of CanadaWest. UNB, Acadia and X draw more than 2,500, 1,500 and 1,100 on average.
Nobody likes to carry around the big trophy in front of empty seats!
That's why the wild card should not go to the conference that hosts.

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11-20-2012, 04:58 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RED ARMY EAST View Post
All AuS schools, except Dal draw between 500-1000 fans, which is probably better than all of CanadaWest. UNB, Acadia and X draw more than 2,500, 1,500 and 1,100 on average.
Nobody likes to carry around the big trophy in front of empty seats!
That's why the wild card should not go to the conference that hosts.
I don't mean to rain on your parade but that is absolute BS. Announced attendance...maybe but buts in the seats, no way. Granted I see these rinks when STU is playing but I have seen 200 people or less at X and they say 800. The forum last weekend had 60 people and 30 were family of STU players.

Acadia, OK.
PEI has been getting good attendance, granted.
Moncton has been good.
UNB is good but they don't count actually people or they just can't count. The latter seems logical to me.
DAL, not too many.
STU only going to get worse this year, should see less than 500 soon enough. Although the women had a solid 750 last Friday night, kudos to them.

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11-20-2012, 05:49 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by STUTOMMIES View Post
I don't mean to rain on your parade but that is absolute BS. Announced attendance...maybe but buts in the seats, no way. Granted I see these rinks when STU is playing but I have seen 200 people or less at X and they say 800. The forum last weekend had 60 people and 30 were family of STU players.

Acadia, OK.
PEI has been getting good attendance, granted.
Moncton has been good.
UNB is good but they don't count actually people or they just can't count. The latter seems logical to me.
DAL, not too many.
STU only going to get worse this year, should see less than 500 soon enough. Although the women had a solid 750 last Friday night, kudos to them.
X's issues with attendance stem from the environment they have tried to set up. they only have half the arena licensed for beer, which is where they sell all the season tickets to families. they tried to make the far side of the arena, across from the benches a student area but hey most of us wanted to drink at the games.

there is also a huge disconnect between the student that go and the towns people that go. the student that come in and cheer and jeer loud are often complained about then kicked out. there is also very little advertising that goes on for home games.

the atmosphere in most games is pin drop quiet. if they really want to attract people to the games they need to re think the way they are setting up that building, as it can probably be done much better

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11-20-2012, 09:50 PM
  #125
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The CIS can use the nationals to promote hockey in markets that have not drawn well in the regular season.

IAE, when Sask was awarded nationals I know Regina also had a bid, and I believe Calgary or UBC also had a bid.

I would naturally like to see Winnipeg host. True, the Bisons don't draw much. But if the event was marketed by the Jets they could sell a crap-load of tickets to the 8,000 people on the waiting list.

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