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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
11-18-2012, 04:19 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
Probably because he got you pegged.
Because it was a post devoid of thought and logic.

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Old
11-18-2012, 04:25 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
So when I predict something it's "too early to tell", but when you say he isn't a future bottom pairing Dman, its fact?

If Marcinin is so great, why hasn't he cracked the pathetic blueline in EDM? He's played 20 games in the AHL, 0 in the NHL. He hasn't shown squat yet.
How many 20yr dmen makes a NHL dcore? You make me laugh.

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Old
11-18-2012, 04:25 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Leddy is horribly underrated and it just goes to show on these boards how prospects that haven't made the NHL yet tend to get overrated while they excel in lesser leagues while prospects that have made the NHL tend to get underrated because they don't light the world on fire right away. Again, Marincin and Leddy are only 11 months apart and Leddy put up 37 points in the NHL last year. Yeah his defense needs work but most 20-21 year old Defenseman do. I doubt Marincin would do as well as Leddy did last year if he was in the NHL this year.
Right. But who cares whether Leddy or Marincin is better right now? The Oilers are projecting Marincin for 3-5 years from now, not tomorrow.

The Oilers have no reason to rush guys like Klefbom or Marincin into the NHL BECAUSE their defense is bad. You don't develop defensemen by throwing them into the fire and letting them get destroyed.

Chicago had the luxury of having a set top pair and depth guys like Hjalmarsson, Campbell, Montador and Oduya over the last few seasons. They could afford to bring Leddy in and he didn't need to play 25 minutes a night.

Anyone breaking into the Oilers lineup would be relied upon a lot more, it's not worth rushing 20 year olds. It's actually really stupid unless they are clearly beyond ready, which it appears a guy like Schultz is.

Either way, I don't think the deal makes sense for either teams. Edmonton needs defense and Chicago has a solid top 4, so I could see both teams passing.

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Old
11-18-2012, 05:56 PM
  #54
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Marincin is tracking well, definitely making his fair share of blunders but thats expected of a rookie, he's also doing a lot of stuff really well. Dunno if I could make this trade.

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Old
11-19-2012, 12:28 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Because he isnt going to be better than Leddy, Keith, Seabrook, or Hjalmarsson.
From the looks of things Leddy hasn't been doing well in the AHL and as to Hjalmarsson you have to be kidding. Hjalmarsson is a good positional D, non-physical and no offensive skills and this season he would most likely be playing 3rd pairing for the Hawks. Not the greatest at the PK and doesn't play the PP. How do you figure a 6'5" D that skates well, handles the puck well and has a cannon for a shot, plays 1st pair in the AHL, is not going to be better then Hjalmarsson or Leddy. How did you come to this reasoning?

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Old
11-19-2012, 11:10 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
From the looks of things Leddy hasn't been doing well in the AHL and as to Hjalmarsson you have to be kidding. Hjalmarsson is a good positional D, non-physical and no offensive skills and this season he would most likely be playing 3rd pairing for the Hawks. Not the greatest at the PK and doesn't play the PP. How do you figure a 6'5" D that skates well, handles the puck well and has a cannon for a shot, plays 1st pair in the AHL, is not going to be better then Hjalmarsson or Leddy. How did you come to this reasoning?
CHL Defensemen > AHL Defensemen > NHL Defensemen on these boards. I'd like to see Marincin play in the NHL before we compare him to top four defensemen on playoff teams.

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Old
11-19-2012, 11:58 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
From the looks of things Leddy hasn't been doing well in the AHL and as to Hjalmarsson you have to be kidding. Hjalmarsson is a good positional D, non-physical and no offensive skills and this season he would most likely be playing 3rd pairing for the Hawks. Not the greatest at the PK and doesn't play the PP. How do you figure a 6'5" D that skates well, handles the puck well and has a cannon for a shot, plays 1st pair in the AHL, is not going to be better then Hjalmarsson or Leddy. How did you come to this reasoning?
Leddy has been doing great, he's a man amongst boys. Stats don't tell the whole story as he has clearly been the Hogs best Dman. You would know that if you watched the games.

How do you come to the reasoning that the 6'-5 player will be better than Leddy and Hjalmarsson just because he has done all of that outside of the NHL? Lots of players play well in lower leagues and play like crap when they get to the bigs.

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Old
11-19-2012, 12:36 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Leddy has been doing great, he's a man amongst boys. Stats don't tell the whole story as he has clearly been the Hogs best Dman. You would know that if you watched the games.
LOL Whut? Leddy has been outplayed by Clendening,Lavin, Stanton, AND Lalonde so far this year. Leddy has also been horrible in his own zone, something, you know, you would see if you actually watch the games. "Men", among boys dont get pushed off the puck as easily as Leddy does.

That being said, neither team does this. Let the Oilers keep their defensive prospects while the Hawks keep their possible second line center of the future. The over rating of prospects in these forums is one of the greatest comedic relief the internet has going for it out side of youtube.

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Old
11-19-2012, 01:04 PM
  #59
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Danault is untouchable, simple as that. You don't trade guys like that. Imagine him on a line with Toews and Hossa? Domination all over the ice.
You need Danault type players to win big games. Guy is worth more than his stats.

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Old
11-19-2012, 01:55 PM
  #60
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Some people here need to read the front page article on www.hockeysfuture.com

"Depth at center and on defense strengths of Chicago Blackhawks’ system"

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Old
11-19-2012, 02:09 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
LOL Whut? Leddy has been outplayed by Clendening,Lavin, Stanton, AND Lalonde so far this year. Leddy has also been horrible in his own zone, something, you know, you would see if you actually watch the games. "Men", among boys dont get pushed off the puck as easily as Leddy does.

That being said, neither team does this. Let the Oilers keep their defensive prospects while the Hawks keep their possible second line center of the future. The over rating of prospects in these forums is one of the greatest comedic relief the internet has going for it out side of youtube.
Wait, aren't you the guy that all Hawk fans take your opinions with a grain of salt?
Everyone who has watched the Hogs always completely disagrees with everything you say. Go away.

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Old
11-19-2012, 03:22 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Wait, aren't you the guy that all Hawk fans take your opinions with a grain of salt?
Everyone who has watched the Hogs always completely disagrees with everything you say. Go away.
"Your opinion does not fit my narrative. I will ignore it."

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Old
11-19-2012, 03:28 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
"Your opinion does not fit my narrative. I will ignore it."
that's HF for you. It's right up there with "Player X isn't on my team so he's crap"

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Old
11-19-2012, 03:54 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
"Your opinion does not fit my narrative. I will ignore it."
And there you have it.

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Old
11-19-2012, 04:23 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
"Your opinion does not fit my narrative. I will ignore it."
That sums up most of the comparisons and evaluations in this thread.

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Old
11-19-2012, 04:30 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
CHL Defensemen > AHL Defensemen > NHL Defensemen on these boards. I'd like to see Marincin play in the NHL before we compare him to top four defensemen on playoff teams.
If Hjalmarsson was a top 4 D, why did he end up playing the bottom pair toward the end of last season and would have started with the bottom pair this season. Hjalmarsson had a good playoff one season, since then he's been kind of a disappointment and some people would say over paid. Marincin is not ready yet and still could be a couple of more years before it happens, but he has a lot more potential then Hjalmarsson or Leddy ever had. At least he'll play that physical game, where the Hawks bottom 4 shied away from.

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11-19-2012, 04:36 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
If Hjalmarsson was a top 4 D, why did he end up playing the bottom pair toward the end of last season and would have started with the bottom pair this season. Hjalmarsson had a good playoff one season, since then he's been kind of a disappointment and some people would say over paid. Marincin is not ready yet and still could be a couple of more years before it happens, but he has a lot more potential then Hjalmarsson or Leddy ever had. At least he'll play that physical game, where the Hawks bottom 4 shied away from.
The source of all overrating in hockey.

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Old
11-19-2012, 04:47 PM
  #68
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The source of all overrating in hockey.
Lets see Boston, Chicago, and LA won the Stanley Cup playing a physical game, how is that overrated.

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Old
11-19-2012, 05:24 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Lets see Boston, Chicago, and LA won the Stanley Cup playing a physical game, how is that overrated.
There's more than one way to skin a cat.

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Old
11-19-2012, 05:48 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
"Your opinion does not fit my narrative. I will ignore it."
When his opinion fits the line of thinking of anyone who has watched an Ice Hog game this year, i'll let you know.

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Old
11-19-2012, 05:50 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
If Hjalmarsson was a top 4 D, why did he end up playing the bottom pair toward the end of last season and would have started with the bottom pair this season. Hjalmarsson had a good playoff one season, since then he's been kind of a disappointment and some people would say over paid. Marincin is not ready yet and still could be a couple of more years before it happens, but he has a lot more potential then Hjalmarsson or Leddy ever had. At least he'll play that physical game, where the Hawks bottom 4 shied away from.
Hjalmarsson was injured at the end of the year, thats why he played bottom pairing minutes.

The only reason he MAY have started there this year was because Q doesn't seem to have a clue on most nights when it comes to allocating ice time. That and our D is one of the deepest in the league.

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Old
11-19-2012, 06:30 PM
  #72
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Hawkaholic is right about Martini...his opinion goes against anyone who understands the game of hockey including the reporters, announcers and others who watch Rockford. Leddy has been incredible and oozes potential. His skating is already elite at an NHL level.

Leddy is up there with the likes of much better players/prospects than Marincin...so they shouldn't be compared. That is unfair to Marincin.

Hawks pass on the trade because we need players like Danault. We need forwards who can PK, play good defense and hit. He fits that mold and so he won't be moved...simple as that. When you have Seabrook, Keith, Hammer, Leddy, and Oduya already...well, you don't need as many great defensive prospects as a team like the Oilers. Not to mention we have Johns, Clendening, Olsen, Paliotta, Fournier, Brown, Dahlbeck, ect. who are solid in there own right. The trade just doesn't make sense from the Hawks point of view and I don't know why that offends Oilers' fans but it is true.

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Old
11-20-2012, 12:35 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
When his opinion fits the line of thinking of anyone who has watched an Ice Hog game this year, i'll let you know.
Yeah that's what I said. Opinion doesn't match mine, ignore.

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Old
11-20-2012, 01:50 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Hjalmarsson was injured at the end of the year, thats why he played bottom pairing minutes.

The only reason he MAY have started there this year was because Q doesn't seem to have a clue on most nights when it comes to allocating ice time. That and our D is one of the deepest in the league.
Don't you mean softest, with the exception of Seabrook.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:21 AM
  #75
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Lets see Boston, Chicago, and LA won the Stanley Cup playing a physical game, how is that overrated.
Who was playing a physical game on Chicago's backend in 2010 besides Seabrook? Brian Campbell? Brent Sopel? For forwards, Byfuglien, Brouwer, and Ladd could all lay hits, but the strength of that team was never its physical play, it was its puck possession.

The point wasn't about physical teams either. It was about physical players. Hockey fans pop boners like 13-year-old boys as soon as they read the word "physical" about a player, or if a player is listed as being taller than 6'1". When a prospect is listed as being 6'6", what's your first though about how he plays (or how you want him to play)?

There's this false belief that physical play makes someone an exponentially better player, and it leads to tons of overrating.

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