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OEL to Edm

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Old
11-20-2012, 01:32 AM
  #151
Aceonfire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Eberle makes me uneasy with his insane 19% shooting %. No one has managed to maintain a SH% that high since the lockout. I'd be hesitant to call him a top 10 right winger.
Glencross has increased his shooting % every year for the last few years to be the top in the NHL.

While Eberle's shooting % will likely drop, the addition of Schultz and a healthy Hall/RNH will make up for that point wise.

And if you are following him at the AHL level, his skills as a playmaker are only getting better. He is second in league scoring behind Schultz.

I can post a ton of stats, but still people don't seem to be sold on Eberle lol.

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Old
11-20-2012, 03:16 AM
  #152
Gritzky98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I responded to a list that stated...



and pointed out that a name like Larsson does not belong on that list. I don't see how you can make any argument for Adam Larsson above OEL right now. Sure, potential factors into this, but OEL is still one of the most highly touted young defensemen in the league. It's not like he's an average prospect who is surprising.

I'd also disagree that Eberle has proven himself an elite top 10 winger. We're talking about 2 seasons here, and he clearly had some help in putting up those numbers. With a shooting percentage that is unsustainable, and soft minutes, how much room for growth is there actually in those numbers?
Wait so OEL is one of the best defencemen in the NHL after 1.5 seasons, but Eberle isn't a top winger after 2? Makes sense.

OEL doesn't get help in pheonix? You could argue is stats look better since he plays in one of the best defensive teams in the entire league. One of the best coaches in the NHL to set up a system that works for him and another top pairing Dman in yandle to play with. That sounds like some help to me.

The argument about Eberles shooting percentage is a terrible one if you ask me, since when is it a bad thing to be an efficient shooter. It's not like Eberles a Gabriel Landeskog/Alex Ovechkin where he just peppers the goalie with shots and hope that he scores. The guy picks his opportunities wisely and shoots only when he needs to, this has been said man many times but obviously no one pays attention. If his shooting percent goes down he could always increase his shot quantity as well he only took 180 shots on goal and that numbers bound to increase. Eberle didn't get as many minutes as a player of his caliber should have got. Was he sheltered? Sure, a bit, but that's cause Tom Renney opted to give the veteran players more minutes Then they deserved.
He was second in Points per minute in the entire league after the league MVP if I'm remebering correctly. If that stat alone doesn't warrant Eberle being a top winger then I don't know what will. OEL is a good player and has a higher upside than Eberle, but as of right now his value is based majorly on his potential which some people overrate like crazy. Future Norris Trophy Dman? Ill believe it when I see it. As of right now he's CLEALY below the other young Dman that are actual Norris trophy contenders like Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Doughty, and honestly I still doubt hell ever be at that level. I put him in the same class as Myers, Subban, Mcdonagh, Hedman, etc.
As for trading Eberle for OEL, I wouldn't but that's because Eberles my favorite player. There values are close and I can see why some people would rather have OEL over him.

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Old
11-20-2012, 03:17 AM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Sure, potential factors into this, but OEL is still one of the most highly touted young defensemen in the league. It's not like he's an average prospect who is surprising.

I'd also disagree that Eberle has proven himself an elite top 10 winger. We're talking about 2 seasons here, and he clearly had some help in putting up those numbers.
These two statements are at odds with eachother.

Eberle had help while OEL was, what, on the ice by himself? Strange cuz I thought he had one of the best goalies in the league behind him and a great defensive team in front.

Eberle has to prove more but OEL deserves full value for his strong year? Strange cuz I thought Eberle had played 17 MORE NHL games than OEL, all at a high level. Not to mention having proven himself as a consistently elite scorer at every level that he's played.

Why the different standards?

edit - also, what the guy above me said 30 seconds earlier...

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Old
11-20-2012, 03:23 AM
  #154
MISC*
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Schultz
Klefbom
MPS


OEL

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Old
11-20-2012, 03:35 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MISC View Post
Schultz
Klefbom
MPS


OEL
Is this a trade offer or are you saying that you think that all of those players are better than OEL?

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Old
11-20-2012, 03:52 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenon13 View Post
OEL will probably break into the top 25 dmen very soon but he's not there yet...
Eberle is a top 10 winger in his position right now.

Not in any order, I believe these are 25 better defenseman who have proven themselves.
1. Chara
2. Weber
3. Karlsson
4. Pietrangelo
5. Doughty
6. Myers
7. Boyle
8. Streit

9. Mcdonagh
10. Hamhuis
11. Byfuglien
12. Suter
13. Edler
14. Campbell
15. Keith
16. Seabrook
17. Letang
18. Burns
19. Enstrom
20. Pronger
21. Ehrhoff
22. Staal
23. Subban
24. Timonen
25. Kronwall
Quote:
Originally Posted by burf View Post
25 players that are arguably (keyword arguably) equal to or better than OEL, in no particular order:

Chara
Weber
Suter
Karlsson
Doughty
Pietrangelo
Letang
Girardi
Keith
Edler
Pronger (I know, he's injured, but he's not retired yet)
Seabrook
Yandle
Subban

Enstrom
Myers
Hedman
Ehrhoff
MDZ

Burns
Green
Boyle
Carlson
Timonen
E. Johnson
Larsson


I probably missed some obvious ones there too, and I stopped after about 3 minutes looking at NHL.com. Not saying that these players ARE better than OEL, just that you could make an argument for any of them.
These are some bad lists. The bolded are worse than OEL.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:00 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Is this a trade offer or are you saying that you think that all of those players are better than OEL?
Offer.

If the Oilers fans can't lose one of the big 4.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:16 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MISC View Post
Offer.

If the Oilers fans can't lose one of the big 4.

then they will not get a top end d-man. It is as simple as that.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:19 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gritzky98 View Post
OEL doesn't get help in pheonix? You could argue is stats look better since he plays in one of the best defensive teams in the entire league. One of the best coaches in the NHL to set up a system that works for him and another top pairing Dman in yandle to play with. That sounds like some help to me.
You can also turn it the other way around; Phoenix is one of teh best defensive teams because they have players like OEL there.

OEL is better than Yandle and they didn't play much together.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:20 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
then they will not get a top end d-man. It is as simple as that.
Fair enough. I am not a fan of either team.

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Old
11-20-2012, 07:46 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gritzky98 View Post
You could argue is stats look better since he plays in one of the best defensive teams in the entire league.
If you use stats when talking about OEL, you are missing the point entirely. That goes for everyone in this thread. Actually, I take that back. There is one stat you need to know. OEL averaged 25:46 minutes of icetime. In the playoffs. Under Dave Tippett. Good for first place on the Coyotes by 3 minutes. He's 21.

Please, continue to tell me he isn't worth a winger that got outscored by a 40 year old Whitney playing for a defense-first team.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:18 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
If you use stats when talking about OEL, you are missing the point entirely. That goes for everyone in this thread. Actually, I take that back. There is one stat you need to know. OEL averaged 25:46 minutes of icetime. In the playoffs. Under Dave Tippett. Good for first place on the Coyotes by 3 minutes. He's 21.

Please, continue to tell me he isn't worth a winger that got outscored by a 40 year old Whitney playing for a defense-first team.
Please don't give me playoff stats. Here's something you should think about.

Playoffs:
OEL: 16 gms, 4pts and was a -3.
Yandle: 16 gms, 9pts and was a +5.
Klesla: 15 gms, 8pts and was -2
Derek Morris: 16 gms, 6pts and was +4

A minus player on a D first team!!!


You tell me who had the better playoffs.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:14 AM
  #163
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Nothing against Phoenix, but I'm pretty certain that if OEL was a member of the Leafs he'd be getting his taint licked by every person doubting him in this thread.

OEL should be listed in the same sentence as a player like Pietrangelo, who most people around here consider to be a top-5/10 defenseman. OEL is that good.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:15 AM
  #164
hohosaregood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
Please don't give me playoff stats. Here's something you should think about.

Playoffs:
OEL: 16 gms, 4pts and was a -3.
Yandle: 16 gms, 9pts and was a +5.
Klesla: 15 gms, 8pts and was -2
Derek Morris: 16 gms, 6pts and was +4

A minus player on a D first team!!!


You tell me who had the better playoffs.
Obviously not Eberle...

You kind of set yourself up for that one

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:18 AM
  #165
blinkman360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
Please don't give me playoff stats. Here's something you should think about.

Playoffs:
OEL: 16 gms, 4pts and was a -3.
Yandle: 16 gms, 9pts and was a +5.
Klesla: 15 gms, 8pts and was -2
Derek Morris: 16 gms, 6pts and was +4

A minus player on a D first team!!!


You tell me who had the better playoffs.
Usually you play your best defensemen against your opponent's top players, in the toughest situations(defensive zone draws). I'm sure if OEL was primarily used during offensive zone draws, like Yandle, his numbers would look a lot nicer.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:48 AM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
Please don't give me playoff stats. Here's something you should think about.

Playoffs:
OEL: 16 gms, 4pts and was a -3.
Yandle: 16 gms, 9pts and was a +5.
Klesla: 15 gms, 8pts and was -2
Derek Morris: 16 gms, 6pts and was +4

A minus player on a D first team!!!


You tell me who had the better playoffs.
+/- is the worst stat to judge a player by.

Besides, how well did the Oilers big 3 do in the playoffs again? Oh right.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:54 AM
  #167
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Seems pretty clear to me that the majority of Oilers fans WANT a top young defenseman, but DO NOT want to part with the necessary asset to acquire him. No GM in his right mind will willingly help the Oilers.

Oilers are best served taking the long drawn out approach and develop their own because outside of sacrificing one of the four forwards in question, they will not acquire a top two defenseman unless there is a defenseman demanding a trade and the team is looking to cut their losses with him.

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Old
11-20-2012, 01:26 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
Please don't give me playoff stats. Here's something you should think about.

Playoffs:
OEL: 16 gms, 4pts and was a -3.
Yandle: 16 gms, 9pts and was a +5.
Klesla: 15 gms, 8pts and was -2
Derek Morris: 16 gms, 6pts and was +4

A minus player on a D first team!!!

You tell me who had the better playoffs.
He did better than Eberle in the playoffs.

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Old
11-20-2012, 01:52 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by hohosaregood View Post
Obviously not Eberle...

You kind of set yourself up for that one
Yes, because Eberle has a history of coming up short when it matters

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Old
11-20-2012, 02:04 PM
  #170
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Like it or not OEL and Phoenix's system got exposed in the playoffs when the physicallity and intensity ramped up.

OEL is on his way to being a great D-man. But he wasn't great in last years playoffs no matter how hard you try to spin it or deflect by saying Eberle never made the playoffs.

I'm just saying you make a better argument referencing his great regular season.

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Old
11-20-2012, 02:51 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
He did better than Eberle in the playoffs.
You've got an excellent point there. Thank you for contributing to a well thought out debate.

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Old
11-20-2012, 02:54 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
Like it or not OEL and Phoenix's system got exposed in the playoffs when the physicallity and intensity ramped up.

OEL is on his way to being a great D-man. But he wasn't great in last years playoffs no matter how hard you try to spin it or deflect by saying Eberle never made the playoffs.

I'm just saying you make a better argument referencing his great regular season.
How did they get exposed? They made it to the WCF because of their defense and goal tending. OEL got the most minutes in the playoffs by far of any Phoenix defensemen, and he played against the top lines of Chicago, Nashville, and L.A. Every defensive zone faceoff, OEL gets the call, and he lines up against Toews, Kane, Brown, Kopitar... Stats don't tell the story...

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Old
11-20-2012, 02:59 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
You've got an excellent point there. Thank you for contributing to a well thought out debate.
Considering you were replying to a guy who used playoffs as a part of his post to talk about OEL, and considering you replied with stats to attempt to make OEL look worse...I think it should be perfectly clear what my point was. You don't think OEL is great in the playoffs, fine. Eberle has yet to make them



And you call what you were posting a well thought out debate? I don't call posting stats a well thought out debate.

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Old
11-20-2012, 04:51 PM
  #174
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If I had known how much bashing of the two players would happen I would not have made this thread. I don't see the point in trying to downplay a players achievements to try and make your player seem like it's worth more.
I understand both sets of fans not wanting to make the trade based on favorites or make-up of their teams but to say that the other player sucks or isn't a top young player in the game is ridiculous.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:42 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra427 View Post
How did they get exposed? They made it to the WCF because of their defense and goal tending. OEL got the most minutes in the playoffs by far of any Phoenix defensemen, and he played against the top lines of Chicago, Nashville, and L.A. Every defensive zone faceoff, OEL gets the call, and he lines up against Toews, Kane, Brown, Kopitar... Stats don't tell the story...
Actually, stats DO tell the story... just not the stats he used.

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