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11-20-2012, 01:47 AM
  #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Yes, because right now, we're going to have Scandella, Spurgeron, Brodin, Dumba up in the majors once the NHL comes back. In the minors we'll have who to develop and who to replace Scandella when he goes down with an injury? Spurgeron? Brodin? Dumba? The thing is, Thrower is a wild card like Bussieres but I rather have had a project on defense with Thrower than a project like Bussieres at forward. We got to slot in Koivu, Parise, Heatley, Clutterbuck, Mitchell, Setoguchi, Brodziak, Konopoka, and Powe with Granlund, Coyle, and Zucker. With Phillips, Larsson, Bulmer pushing as well. We have so many top 9 minutes and a lot of guys that can slot into the top 9...

Thrower would have given Minnesota a LOT of flexibility on the back end and given them two promising, very physical top 4 defensemen on the back end with Dumba and Thrower.

Right now it looks like this:

Graduated:
Scandella
Spurgeron

NHL:
Dumba
Brodin

AHL Developing:
Cuma
Kampfer

Unknown Developing:
Medvec
Lorenz
Seeler
Draeger

There is a huge gap in our defense still. I have no prospect of seeing Seeler or Draeger until 2016-2018 in the AHL. And even less so that guys like Medvec or Lorenz will develop into top 4 much less Cuma or Kampfer.
We could have used every single pick in the draft on below average sized defensemen and you'd still be demanding more.

Assuming Bagnall is re-upped to be our veteran presence in Houston, next year we'll have Bagnall, Connelly, Jobke, and Genoway in Houston. On top of that, assuming Cuma, Falk, and Kampfer are retained, we'll have three of Prosser, Falk, Cuma, and Kampfer in Houston with them.

The year after starts to get a bit more open. We have Gilbert, Stoner, Prosser, Genoway, and Connelly potentially on the way out. But, we'll have Dumba coming in along with Gunnarsson (if he's going to get a contract, he'll have to that year) and quite possibly one or both of Seeler and Draeger. This is completely ignoring Krupp, Medvec, and Lorenz. Add in any trades, signings, or 2013 draft picks ('94s will be AHL eligible that year) and you're starting to question whether you have enough space rather than if you need more bodies.

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11-20-2012, 04:18 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
We could have used every single pick in the draft on below average sized defensemen and you'd still be demanding more.
Not really. I am extremely happy with the 2nd round picks of 2010 and 2011. But we could have used more of a development defenseman last year. And while Thrower is a bit on the small size, he was and still is a highly rated defenseman.

Quote:
Assuming Bagnall is re-upped to be our veteran presence in Houston, next year we'll have Bagnall, Connelly, Jobke, and Genoway in Houston. On top of that, assuming Cuma, Falk, and Kampfer are retained, we'll have three of Prosser, Falk, Cuma, and Kampfer in Houston with them.
I have no trust that Bagnall isn't more of an AHL defenseman. Same with Connelly, Jobke and Genoway. Falk has injury problems. Kampfer has had concussions and size issues. Cuma is done.

Quote:
The year after starts to get a bit more open. We have Gilbert, Stoner, Prosser, Genoway, and Connelly potentially on the way out. But, we'll have Dumba coming in along with Gunnarsson (if he's going to get a contract, he'll have to that year) and quite possibly one or both of Seeler and Draeger. This is completely ignoring Krupp, Medvec, and Lorenz. Add in any trades, signings, or 2013 draft picks ('94s will be AHL eligible that year) and you're starting to question whether you have enough space rather than if you need more bodies.
Stoner might not be retained. Prosser is a nobody and so is Genoway and Connelly. Gunnarsson is a wild card (though actually very little hope).

Seeler and Draeger are extremely long term projects that I don't think the team is going to cut short their development to throw in the AHL. 4 years for both in the NCCA and 2 years in the AHL minimum if they even make it. 6 years from their draft year? Krupp, Medvec and Lorenz are nobodies as well.

I'm talking about development guys that should be in the AHL either this year or next year that aren't in the NHL now (or should be). We have zip. Nada. None that show any real promise in the AHL that isn't going to be in the NHL next year. It showed this year how raw our defense is (Brodin out, Scandella being the only decent guy) and how little depth we actually have.

I see very little outside of Dumba or Brodin and I fear if a string of injuries hits our defense, we'll have guys like Prosser and Genoway filling in the gaps in the top 4.

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11-20-2012, 04:20 AM
  #478
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I wouldn't be surprised to see Phillips traded sooner than later.

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11-20-2012, 04:24 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
I wouldn't be surprised to see Phillips traded sooner than later.
Yeah there are many teams with shortage on centers. We could get a decent return from him when he turns it around and star producing again. Of course then he will become 1st line center and scores ton of goals against wild but that's then.

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11-20-2012, 05:05 AM
  #480
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Of the Aeroes last 12 periods of hockey, Phillips has played 4, scratched a game and didnt play in 3rd period twice. When he did play those 4, 2 of those were with Josh Caron--nuff said, lol !
Of the two games he did p-lay with the skilled guys, one of those he was 1st star and scored shootout winner.
The reason Torch is hard on him, is that he sees the potential. Typicaly guys out of junior take a little longer, see Bulmer.
If Minny wanted to trade him, they would be doing the exact opposite of what they are doing. They would play them plenty, showcase them as much as possible, play them in situations to have success etc-not what they are doing with Zach--and as far as in public, would take every chance to pump their tires whether they believed it or not, to increase their trade ---you wouldnt sell your car and advertise its not working well, lol.
Personally, I like his game given the opportunities. I remember going back to draft, I said this kid needs a year or year and a half of AHL, but his potential is very very high just up to Minny to develop him properly.

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11-20-2012, 05:17 AM
  #481
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My bad, above should read 9 periods,

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11-20-2012, 08:48 AM
  #482
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I think you're getting ahead of yourself. We're much better with Dumba and Suter in the fold than we were last year. You don't need to plan out ten years in the future, just take it one year at a time.

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11-20-2012, 08:51 AM
  #483
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Phillips has all the tools but needs to learn to work harder. Until this year he could coast by on talent alone. This is exactly what he needs.

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11-20-2012, 08:56 AM
  #484
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he's going to be one of those guys who suddenly gets it and will become great. hopefully.

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11-20-2012, 09:19 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I think you're getting ahead of yourself. We're much better with Dumba and Suter in the fold than we were last year. You don't need to plan out ten years in the future, just take it one year at a time.
Furthermore, you need to have potential space in the NHL for such a defenseman to grow into. With Suter here long term, Brodin, Spurgeon, Scandella, and Dumba presumably here at least until UFA age, it'll be 4 years before we have room for anyone other than a 6/7 defenseman at the NHL level at a minimum.

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11-20-2012, 09:21 AM
  #486
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I see him as one of those second-tier talents that puts up give or take 50 points and might have a couple big seasons out of nowhere hitting 70-80 points. Like a Lupul or, Prospal.

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11-20-2012, 09:33 AM
  #487
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I see Phillips as maybe like a Matt Moulson (with a little more tendency to pass) production-wise. He's not the kind of guy that leads his line or his team. He's a complimentary player who has an amazing knack for playing with talent. He'll always be underrated at the NHL level because he's glue for his line, not the shiny, sparkly part.

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11-20-2012, 10:28 AM
  #488
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Suter
Gilbert
Spurgeon
Scandella
Brodin
Stoner
Falk
Dumba
Kampfer
Connelly
Prosser
Draeger
Seeler
Gunnarson
Medvec

Cuma and Genoway I don't ever see as NHL options.

Suter, Gilbert, and Brodin will be 3 of our top-4 moving forward (Gilbert will definitely be re-signed). We then need Scandella, Stoner, or Falk to set-up, or sign a UFA Dman.

I get the desire to draft another bluechip Dman, however, you are crazy if you think that draft pick will be NHL ready before Scandella or Dumba or even the lesser prospects.

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11-20-2012, 10:40 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
I see Phillips as maybe like a Matt Moulson (with a little more tendency to pass) production-wise. He's not the kind of guy that leads his line or his team. He's a complimentary player who has an amazing knack for playing with talent. He'll always be underrated at the NHL level because he's glue for his line, not the shiny, sparkly part.
I agree.

Phillips is the guy that you put with a star and physical player to makes the line work.

It's just going to take me some time. Remember, he played in the Q, where it is a bigger jump to the AHL.

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11-20-2012, 11:16 AM
  #490
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Is it too early to call Bertschy a flop? 1 point in 19 NLA games. Looking at his international play, he's doing better there than last year though.

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11-20-2012, 11:28 AM
  #491
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phillips unlike guys like zucker, bulmer not had any pro games before this year and unlike guys like Larsson, granny has never played against men before so it'll take a bit...patience is key, Charlie(2010 draft) this time last year had 2 goals playing college hockey which is exactly the same amount of months past his draft as Phillips(2011 draft) is playing in the AHL. Alot of kids in that draft year are still playing junior or like Lucia are freshman in college.

For me, Im thrilled with the progress of our young guys, they are getting great experience and all are becomming a little better each day !

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11-20-2012, 11:32 AM
  #492
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Is it too early to call Bertschy a flop? 1 point in 19 NLA games. Looking at his international play, he's doing better there than last year though.
how the hell can a 4th rounder be a flop, the chances of him being anything more then AHL top 9 are slim as hell.

also there is no telling what his role on the team is, and what the situation is. if he does anything pro wise in NA it'll be an accomplishment yet alone play for the wild.

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11-20-2012, 11:51 AM
  #493
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If you look at the depth chart, outside of Coyle/Granlund/Brodin/Dumba, I could see some movement in terms of adding another good yound defenceman, like a 91, 90 born type guy.
Upfront we are absolutely loaded with prospects and will very good guys on the cusp, see Fontaine/Palmeri who could fill a role. But with guys like Bulmer, Phillips, Larsson, Zucker, Lucia, Brussiers along with the aforementioned Granlund, Coyle, I think a trade for a young dman isnt out of the question.

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11-20-2012, 11:55 AM
  #494
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The ONLY thing I can see out of Bertschi is if he is getting next to no ice time, as is common in some Euro leagues. Rookies don't get ANY benefit of the doubt and have to earn every second.

This year struck me more as going "off the board" with a lot of choices, which was kind of unsatisfying but makes sense considering the prospect depth of the team.

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11-20-2012, 12:10 PM
  #495
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Yep, looking at his stats, he must be playing in 4th line or something. And that's his development screwed.

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11-20-2012, 12:49 PM
  #496
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I think you're getting ahead of yourself. We're much better with Dumba and Suter in the fold than we were last year. You don't need to plan out ten years in the future, just take it one year at a time.
No, but you still need to plan on injuries and around 3-4 years ahead (which the Wild did with all of their moves) to get Suter and Dumba.

Look at our defense in the AHL with the injuries. Look at our defense in the NHL last year with all of the injuries. There is going to still be a noticeable gap when Dumba and Brodin graduate. There's a noticeable gap right now with the injuries.

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11-20-2012, 12:57 PM
  #497
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We have a blueline gap, but its not one Thrower or any other 2012 2nd round Dman could fill.

We need another solid 26 year old Dman, not a green 18 year old with upside 4 years from now.

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11-20-2012, 02:13 PM
  #498
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No, but you still need to plan on injuries and around 3-4 years ahead (which the Wild did with all of their moves) to get Suter and Dumba.

Look at our defense in the AHL with the injuries. Look at our defense in the NHL last year with all of the injuries. There is going to still be a noticeable gap when Dumba and Brodin graduate. There's a noticeable gap right now with the injuries.
I don't think there's a team in the league that can stand their top 2-3 defensemen going down. It's just an eventuality you can't really worry about.

Back to my main point: the Wild's NHL defense last year was mediocre at best. This coming season it should be at least good, possibly very good. In a couple years it should be very good to great. I'll take that over a mediocre defense with above average AHL'ers waiting for an injury callup.

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11-20-2012, 02:22 PM
  #499
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Seeler and Draeger are extremely long term projects that I don't think the team is going to cut short their development to throw in the AHL. 4 years for both in the NCCA and 2 years in the AHL minimum if they even make it. 6 years from their draft year?
You're predicting this after 10-12 games of their Freshman years? Seems a bit premature...

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11-20-2012, 02:39 PM
  #500
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Seeler and Draeger are extremely long term projects that I don't think the team is going to cut short their development to throw in the AHL. 4 years for both in the NCCA and 2 years in the AHL minimum if they even make it.
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You're predicting this after 10-12 games of their Freshman years? Seems a bit premature...
If my memory serves correctly, I think the plan is to let these kids mature in the NCAA, as stated by GMCF.

Intentionally drafting kids with one year left of USHL left, 4 years of college, 2-3 years of AHL... For D-men, I think that is a good arc.

I like Seeler. Kid has the smarts.

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