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Old
11-19-2012, 11:33 PM
  #701
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Gaza is not playing a role in the NHL lockout.
You clearly missed the point of that reference.


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It is a well-known statistic that most people who win the lottery frequently end up broke.
Again, who cares?

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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You call the players "morons", how sharp do you think you'd be if your job required you to forego any serious education from age 15 onward, and if your brain suffered 2 or 3 concussions?
No, I call the players that lose all their money to the point where they have no pension, no job, and can't afford health care, morons. I have no idea why you have sympathy for those guys. Seriously.

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11-20-2012, 12:39 AM
  #702
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They don't have to say the previous contract is void. It just is, if this were a programming statement it's an IF statement that fails and the program ends. The contracts are conditional on there being a CBA. Should they NHL refuse to sign a deal forever the player will never ever ever get that money. Simple.

Okay it's related but what does this prove? They aren't the same context, you know that.

As for unionized workers, this is a better example but still fundamentally different. The government can't really impose a rollback and if they did it wouldn't even make sense, they get money off of taxes. Unless these are government jobs and either way, you can't sign a contract then do a rollback, the contract includes one. I don't think you're following, this isn't the NHL saying previous contract is void. It is expired, what's so complicated. July 1st(or June 30th, whatever) 2012. Finished, done. It's not hard to grasp, it's not that old contracts are voided, it's that they aren't functional without a new CBA.

And so it does, but rollbacks happen in life, even to those who make more out of college.

Again, the players do not get 57%, the owners do not get 43%. They both get zero, nada. I can use google translate and figure out how to say zero in 15 languages if you like but it's still zero. They are making a new contract, a new deal.

People gotta stop talking about old contract, it's a reference point, that's it. I'll agree there, but it does NOT change the fact the players are giving up nothing. They have nothing to give, it is EXPIRED. Now, they make a new deal relative to the old one and what is fair. However, the old deal is just a piece of paper and a reference, it is not actually rights they possess. It is not actual contracts they have.



I think NHL and NHLPA spent too long with PR stuff. Get to it and do what needs to be done. I can wait but come back with a solid deal for the game.



The NHL was recovering, when fans got back into it it showed real numbers. I get what you're saying, putting the basis on first year to last of the CBA but they were returning and gaining momentum. Also big TV deal and return to canada with the jets all boost the numbers. The growth hasn't been as big as the numbers indicate is what I'm saying. I think it's fair to say some is from the dollar, Jets and TV deal and not actual growth in small markets.
wow

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11-20-2012, 12:44 AM
  #703
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Right, because agreeing to a rollback means the future will be a struggle..
Fighting for your rights? Really? I wonder what's your take on the Gaza situation..



Actually, I never said they should agree to whatever demand. Never said they should agree to the first deal. I said at some point you have to agree on things, no matter if you feel you're not getting such a great deal. At the end of the day, things will be just fine. They will be.

I find it rather ridiculous too that you try to defend these millionaires from not having a pension or health care because they can't manage their millions and millions of dollars. Are you freaking serious with this crap?

There are people in this world that don't have a pension, or health care, at all, yet you're trying to get sympathy for those millionaires?? The heck man?

If they lose all their cash, so be it, it's the price you pay for being a moron.
that's what pretty much anyone thinking owners are right think, they're millionnaire so they should suck it up, they have no right to complain...


now, lets see if after a 10%+ cut on your paycheck, things will be fine

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11-20-2012, 12:47 AM
  #704
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Really? I wonder what's your take on the Gaza situation..
Gaza? Why not ask him his take on the Arab spring in countries all over the middle east. Gaza? lol.. How about the other 99% of the middle east.. Oh wait, I understand where you're going.

But if I were to to draw parallels, I would equate Fehr with Hamas. lol.

I say pick pick your leader appropriately. NHL players are at fault here.

Vote in a leader that will make it his goal to bring two sides together. On the other hand, vote in a leader that comes from a line of thinking akin to the dark ages, or in hockey context, the old school, things won't end up very smooth.

Why are players surprised that they are in the dirty ****** situation when they brought in a leader that refuses to make peace, is beyond me.

I actually feel bad for the players, much like I do for people in Gaza. Ok, maybe a bit less. My point is, both need to understand who they vote for.

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11-20-2012, 01:03 AM
  #705
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No they haven't done squat. There was already revenue sharing in place for those teams before the players and owners decided it wasn't enough. They're increasing it and apparently both sides agreed on the increase. Plus the league, the other 29 owners, bought the Coyotes out of bankruptcy. Take off the tin foil hat for a bit and I hope the players do the same, otherwise no season.
so, those team, before revenue sharing, were losing money... but now they dont, right ?

just like the Yotes are in tip top shape financially since, right ?


and, after a lost season due to a lockout, what will the owners do to help those who were already in trouble financially and are now taking a bigger hit since they're losing fans (aka customers) ?

Oh! yeah I know, increased revenue sharing so the poor teams keep losing money, but just a little less.

maybe you should buy yourself a hat

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11-20-2012, 06:00 AM
  #706
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that's what pretty much anyone thinking owners are right think, they're millionnaire so they should suck it up, they have no right to complain...


now, lets see if after a 10%+ cut on your paycheck, things will be fine
If I made 5millions or Anything around that, I'd be more than fine about it, especially if it meant ending a strike and going back to playing hockey. Not to mention I could earn it back possibly later in future contracts.

Both sides are wrong and greedy.

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:42 AM
  #707
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that's what pretty much anyone thinking owners are right think, they're millionnaire so they should suck it up, they have no right to complain...
Well, they clearly have every right to complain. If I was running things at NHL HQ - and didn't know anything different about the NHL finances than I do now that would make me think differently - I'd certainly have offered them far better terms than the NHL has, and be far less adversarial about it. I think the players are getting ripped off. But that said, I think they need to do the math. And understand what they're up against. They *will* lose 1 year of their salaries, minimum. A good 10-20% of them *will not* return to NHL jobs. NHL revenues overall *will* take a hit as fans continue to lose interest, which will affect their incomes further. As long as they understand that what their fighting for now really is just principle, union strength, bargaining position for the next generation of players, and that they are going to sacrifice their own income and job security to get that, then fine. It's their choice to fight that fight or not, and I don't begrudge them the fight one bit.
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Now, lets see if after a 10%+ cut on your paycheck, things will be fine
Don't tell my boss, but for sure, I love my job and I'd take a 10% cut if it meant keeping the job. I could probably handle up to about 30% cut before I'd have to give it up. I would dare to think those guys playing in the NHL like their jobs similarly. And make tons and tons more money than me. I mean, it's a totally irrelevant point, I think, because I don't really see any justification for them to take paycuts... their industry has been booming (quite the opposite of mine). There shouldn't be any hard decisions needed. But if it does come right down to it... the money isn't everything for some people, for whatever that's worth. I don't know how many of them are at the point yet where they see it as "10% paycut vs. job loss"... but some probably are getting there, and more will. Some never will too. It will be interesting to see how the group dynamics play out.

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Old
11-20-2012, 08:58 AM
  #708
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the players have never been able to "GO TO WAR"
they just can't do it. BUT it would be the right way to counter the way the NHL and Bettman do it.
The day the NHLPA really goes to WAR then we would see this stuff end.
At the first lockout threat from the NHL the NHLPA counters with NO HOCKEY this year, no hockey NEXT year and NO HOCKEY THE YEAR AFTER THAT. NO MORE CAP, NO LIMIT TO CONTRACTS.
IF you really want to go to war with us, then WE are going to develop a KHL league in the USA and the entire 700 member NHLPA will join and invest for new arena's in each NHL city. Then try to fill you current 300million arena's with the antique rode show's and such.
NOW LETS GO TO WAR

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:12 AM
  #709
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that's what pretty much anyone thinking owners are right think, they're millionnaire so they should suck it up, they have no right to complain...


now, lets see if after a 10%+ cut on your paycheck, things will be fine
I would accept a 10% paycut , probably give me a chance to reassess my holdings and the people taking care of my money. Whats plan B for most of these guys? The cuts far outway the option of not having the skills to do anything else.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:23 AM
  #710
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
the players have never been able to "GO TO WAR"
they just can't do it. BUT it would be the right way to counter the way the NHL and Bettman do it.
The day the NHLPA really goes to WAR then we would see this stuff end.
At the first lockout threat from the NHL the NHLPA counters with NO HOCKEY this year, no hockey NEXT year and NO HOCKEY THE YEAR AFTER THAT. NO MORE CAP, NO LIMIT TO CONTRACTS.
IF you really want to go to war with us, then WE are going to develop a KHL league in the USA and the entire 700 member NHLPA will join and invest for new arena's in each NHL city. Then try to fill you current 300million arena's with the antique rode show's and such.
NOW LETS GO TO WAR
oh lawl tell me this is a sarcastic post

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:48 AM
  #711
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Fehr and the PA showed up late once again to a meeting they organized and once again did not come with a proposal. What a joke.
You are not the first to mention the PA doing stuff like this. Where do you get this? I can't find anything about it.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:18 AM
  #712
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
If I made 5millions or Anything around that, I'd be more than fine about it, especially if it meant ending a strike and going back to playing hockey. Not to mention I could earn it back possibly later in future contracts.

Both sides are wrong and greedy.
som, what you're sayins is that I'm right, ok.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:51 AM
  #713
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They are gonna lose more fans they tought... people forgave them the first time because crosby alone created a buzz and it was the 1st strike for a full season... this time around only few years later.. I dont think the fans will digest it when the nhl is in general downgrading (quality of the games and going back to low scoring games, no 100pts players, lack of respect within players and league in general) ... the first lockout impacted me a lot this one only time will tell but I certainly lowered a lot my appreciation of the nhl. If we are going to skip a year every 6-7 years.. might as well follow another sports... like football... see my nick name

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Old
11-20-2012, 12:11 PM
  #714
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If I made 5millions or Anything around that, I'd be more than fine about it, especially if it meant ending a strike and going back to playing hockey. Not to mention I could earn it back possibly later in future contracts.
if i was an employer, i would want all my employees to have your mind set.

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11-20-2012, 12:17 PM
  #715
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if i was an employer, i would want all my employees to have your mind set.
I'll take the 10% pay cut and the 5 million salary no problem. Both at the same time even. Heck if you know a java/perl job that pays like that I'll take it.

And I'll even respect the dress code with that

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Old
11-20-2012, 12:21 PM
  #716
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I'll take the 10% pay cut and the 5 million salary no problem. Both at the same time even. Heck if you know a java/perl job that pays like that I'll take it.

And I'll even respect the dress code with that
no problem, with a mindset like that I hire you at that price, and 6 months later you're back at "below 100K a year", and you'll be more than happy about that, right ?

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11-20-2012, 12:26 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
no problem, with a mindset like that I hire you at that price, and 6 months later you're back at "below 100K a year", and you'll be more than happy about that, right ?
Actually, yea.. I would be more than happy if you did that, cause I still got 2.5 Millions for half a year

I understand your point, but it's a bad analogy

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11-20-2012, 12:38 PM
  #718
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wow
I'm running out of ways to say the obvious.

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Old
11-20-2012, 12:39 PM
  #719
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Actually, yea.. I would be more than happy if you did that, cause I still got 2.5 Millions for half a year

I understand your point, but it's a bad analogy
think I'd wait 6 months to cut your salary, come on now ?

you'd be more than happy to get a 10% salary cut you said, so let's start with that. Following week, lets cut to a mil, you'd be again more than happy... unless you're a greedy and selfish millionnaire right ?

or maybe I should go the nhl way, hire you next summer for a hefty price, and cut your salary by 10/20 % before you even start working for me

I mean, I'll hire you to program stuff for me for lets say, 100k a year... but will never pay you more than 50, that sounds right dont you think ?

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11-20-2012, 12:40 PM
  #720
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I'm running out of ways to say the obvious.
seriously, if you ever get involved in negos, dont ever bring that example to the table, you'll be canned before you can finish your sentence

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11-20-2012, 12:41 PM
  #721
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Let's be honest, I wouldn't want to take ANY paycut either. It's not something you willingly do when you've been making more. Hell, someone can give me gourmet meals all year then the 366th day I walk in and get something i've loved all my life and it no longer feels right.

It's normal that the players are resisting, 100% so. I just think they've lost more than the value of the paycut at this point.

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Old
11-20-2012, 12:42 PM
  #722
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seriously, if you ever get involved in negos, dont ever bring that example to the table, you'll be canned before you can finish your sentence
To be fair, this isn't a negotiation.

I would have no issue bringing up the rest if the situation demanded it though.

There's a way to negotiate and I don't think either side is doing it well at this point.

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11-20-2012, 12:43 PM
  #723
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Let's be honest, I wouldn't want to take ANY paycut either. It's not something you willingly do when you've been making more. Hell, someone can give me gourmet meals all year then the 366th day I walk in and get something i've loved all my life and it no longer feels right.

It's normal that the players are resisting, 100% so. I just think they've lost more than the value of the paycut at this point.
think teams like Habs, Leafs or Flyers are losing a whole lot too.

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11-20-2012, 12:46 PM
  #724
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think I'd wait 6 months to cut your salary, come on now ?

you'd be more than happy to get a 10% salary cut you said, so let's start with that. Following week, lets cut to a mil, you'd be again more than happy... unless you're a greedy and selfish millionnaire right ?

or maybe I should go the nhl way, hire you next summer for a hefty price, and cut your salary by 10/20 % before you even start working for me

I mean, I'll hire you to program stuff for me for lets say, 100k a year... but will never pay you more than 50, that sounds right dont you think ?
While I agree, it's part of the process. What I don't understand though is people comparing it to real life situations. If an employer does that, I can switch job and get my fair market value again.

For the NHL(and other NA sports leagues) they are the only ones who can pay that much. That's what I don't understand, the swiss can't give up 70 mil capspace, neither can the rest. So even with a 10% paycut they still make more than any other league in the world 95% of the time. It's not the same as a real life situation.

IMO, if the players feel screwed by NHL owners, they can sign in KHL(assuming their contract is expired in NHL). I don't think they'd be happier with no pension, poor healthcare, poor transportation and less money in a foreign country(for most).

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11-20-2012, 12:46 PM
  #725
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It's normal that the players are resisting, 100% so. I just think they've lost more than the value of the paycut at this point.
Same can be said about the owners.

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