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AAA 2012 Draft

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Old
11-19-2012, 09:31 AM
  #601
BudsBuster
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Well since I have size and sandpaper already of my 4th line why not add some annoyance and offense while not giving away any defense what so ever. The barracudas select an ugly little ******* LW/RW Jason Blake.

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11-19-2012, 11:32 AM
  #602
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
My first pick of the round will round out my defense quite nicely. I need a righty on the third pairing and this guy has logged some pretty good minutes over his career and he has a good resume both offensively and defensively.

D Gord Murphy



I'm not 100% sure how to do the exact career ATOI (because I figure you have to weight it for games played and what not) but I have him up over 22 gaining on 23 minutes per night for over 900 games (incl. playoffs). He played in all situations, he led his clubs in even strength time very often and when he didn't he was right up there (including 1999 when it seems that just about every Panther d-man played 16/night). I have him as a #1 for about half of his career basically in ES time, which is impressive.

He brings a lot to the table. Kind of jack of all trades, master of none type of guy. Good skater, good offensively and could work the puck on the power play. Solid on the PK because of positioning and stick skills. Not much of a bruiser certainly, but he'll be paired with Luke Richardson (or Sean O'Donnell), so that'll take care of itself. A player that adapted from the high-flying 80's brand of hockey into a really steady player in the 90's while being looked at as a leader on the expansion Panthers (who made that team run under his watch in 1996).

---
Next I got a guy that adds even more speed to my forward lineup, he's a good player offensively and with his speed and smarts can get it done defensively just fine. Played a lot of power play and some PK over his career. 6x 20-goal scorer (if you give him the '94 lockout - 14 in 48 games). I'll do more on him when I have time, but he might even be a better fit for my 2nd line than 4th, we'll see...

RW/C Nelson Emerson

Emerson is a very solid pick... but Murphy....

Murphy is actually why I said "Poti might have one of two best TOI profiles of all available post-expansion defensemen", and not definitively the best. (with roughly the same TOI and career games, you could give Poti the tiebreaker for being on better teams, but Murphy had the better defensive teams, so call it a wash)

Murphy was a guy we held in as high esteem as Hardy (another 900 minute, 22+ minute guy); we think they're equally valuable, but just in different ways. Given that we already had Lidster on the 2nd, we couldn't take Murphy for that spot; it would be too soft a pairing; it had to be Hardy.

We also considered making him a 3rd pairing specialist because he was sort of a "too good to pass up" kind of player but ultimately decided to go with a more offense-heavy guy in Poti.

Interesting fact - Murphy was either the top defensive defenseman (based on sum of ES and SH TOI) - or within a minute of the leader (so either a leader or essentially co-leader) - on a top-6 defensive team four times. I realize they had Beezer and a very defensive style, but still, good for him for being the guy playing the defensive minutes.

the fact that he's a righty makes him more attractive yet, and I am shocked he took this long to get taken. I think he and Derek Morris (who was applauded as a good late MLD pick) are practically equal.

lastly - to calculate average minutes, just use those minute sum columns on the far right. one represents total minutes, the other ES. Sum those up, then sum up games played, divide, and boom! (off the top of my head I think he was 22.72 or something)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BudsBuster View Post
Well since I have size and sandpaper already of my 4th line why not add some annoyance and offense while not giving away any defense what so ever. The barracudas select an ugly little ******* LW/RW Jason Blake.
He can play C too... he's a legitimate 3-position forward.

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Old
11-19-2012, 05:39 PM
  #603
Mike Farkas
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Thanks 70s. When I first started reading I thought it was going the way of, "Emerson is solid...but Murphy, what were you thinking?" and in my head, I thought, "alright, Murphy looks like he should have been picked a while ago...probably before a good number of d-men I already had...and Emerson is the tag-a-long to do some special teams work"

Then after I read it all, I see that you praise Murphy. From mental perception and memory, Murphy was better than Poti. Especially defensively as Poti has been very up and down in his career depending on the situations and pairings he's in. Not sure if numbers reflect that or if numbers exist to reflect that. But he was very inconsistent defensively over the course of his career. And I mean that literally: some years he was one of the better defensive players on his team and some years he was about the worst.

I'm having a hard time picking who's better at wing, my 4th liners (Errol Thompson and Nelson Emerson) or my 2nd liners (Jiri Dopita and John Anderson)...is that normal at this level or did I just goofball my second line so bad that it looks close...?

Jason Blake is just so brutal. I can't stand him. I've seen him open-hand slap a player in the face before...c'mon man! Fun fact*: Jason Blake, in the expansion era, is the all-time leader in "most players put offside" averaging over 8.4 per game!

I've never at any time or at any level seen a player create more offside plays than Jason Blake, as a rookie, in his short-lived peak, in his later years, never have I seen a player just have such a blatant disregard for his teammates and the fundamental rules of hockey. He could probably put players offside in roller hockey...

He was so disliked that even his first college team traded him...**

* - might not actually be a fact, but it's got to be pretty close.
** - also might not actually be true.

Nothing personal towards the picker, it's the pick that I hate so so much. Does anyone actually like Jason Blake? His mother's morning sickness probably didn't go away until Jason's first day at Ferris State...

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11-19-2012, 05:59 PM
  #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
Thanks 70s. When I first started reading I thought it was going the way of, "Emerson is solid...but Murphy, what were you thinking?" and in my head, I thought, "alright, Murphy looks like he should have been picked a while ago...probably before a good number of d-men I already had...and Emerson is the tag-a-long to do some special teams work"

Then after I read it all, I see that you praise Murphy. From mental perception and memory, Murphy was better than Poti. Especially defensively as Poti has been very up and down in his career depending on the situations and pairings he's in. Not sure if numbers reflect that or if numbers exist to reflect that. But he was very inconsistent defensively over the course of his career. And I mean that literally: some years he was one of the better defensive players on his team and some years he was about the worst.

I'm having a hard time picking who's better at wing, my 4th liners (Errol Thompson and Nelson Emerson) or my 2nd liners (Jiri Dopita and John Anderson)...is that normal at this level or did I just goofball my second line so bad that it looks close...?

Jason Blake is just so brutal. I can't stand him. I've seen him open-hand slap a player in the face before...c'mon man! Fun fact*: Jason Blake, in the expansion era, is the all-time leader in "most players put offside" averaging over 8.4 per game!

I too hate him dearly... especially as a leafs fan, But he is not a terrible hockey player. he has speed and for a little guy, he digs hard in the corners, and plays bigger than he is. Also is ok defensively.

He has decent offensive upside with seasons of 69,63, and 3 more in the 50s he looks good on a wing with a big body and solid face off guy.


Last edited by seventieslord: 11-19-2012 at 06:21 PM.
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11-19-2012, 06:20 PM
  #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
Thanks 70s. When I first started reading I thought it was going the way of, "Emerson is solid...but Murphy, what were you thinking?" and in my head, I thought, "alright, Murphy looks like he should have been picked a while ago...probably before a good number of d-men I already had...and Emerson is the tag-a-long to do some special teams work"

Then after I read it all, I see that you praise Murphy.


I admit, I kinda set it up that way on purpose.

Quote:
From mental perception and memory, Murphy was better than Poti. Especially defensively as Poti has been very up and down in his career depending on the situations and pairings he's in. Not sure if numbers reflect that or if numbers exist to reflect that. But he was very inconsistent defensively over the course of his career. And I mean that literally: some years he was one of the better defensive players on his team and some years he was about the worst.
Oh yeah, no doubt Murphy was the better defensive player. They were both all around minute munchers, but their values were both tilted to opposite sides of the ice (and I’m not saying completely, more like 40/60 and 60/40). Which is what made it hard for us to take a guy that we thought might have been the BPA among post-expansion d-men. Not quite enough offense there, even if he had BPA potential.

Without his 2008-2010 seasons Poti is an A-level PP specialist, but he ultimately proved to be an important component in both the defensive and transition game of a very powerful team, so I give him credit for that. I also think that even before that, for him to be consistently getting the ES and SH minutes he was getting, his defensive woes were likely not as bad as they were made out to be. One of those “bad for a 1st pairing guy, but still, a first pairing guy” kinds of guys.

Quote:
I'm having a hard time picking who's better at wing, my 4th liners (Errol Thompson and Nelson Emerson) or my 2nd liners (Jiri Dopita and John Anderson)...is that normal at this level or did I just goofball my second line so bad that it looks close...?
Good question! As you know, I wasn’t a fan of the Thompson pick, but Anderson and Emerson were very solid. Dopita is a guy I have reservations about because I’m not sure how much LW he actually played, and I question if he was actually that good considering how he flopped when he came over. So I’m in your boat. They look like more or less similarly valuable sets of wingers.

Quote:
Jason Blake is just so brutal. I can't stand him. I've seen him open-hand slap a player in the face before...c'mon man! Fun fact*: Jason Blake, in the expansion era, is the all-time leader in "most players put offside" averaging over 8.4 per game!


Hey, to be fair, he’s the only player I’ve ever seen who got bopped in the eye with an upward motion while being held by a linesman. It was pretty dirty; I was furious. I assume this was after the slap? If so, the universe evened out.

Quote:
I've never at any time or at any level seen a player create more offside plays than Jason Blake, as a rookie, in his short-lived peak, in his later years, never have I seen a player just have such a blatant disregard for his teammates and the fundamental rules of hockey. He could probably put players offside in roller hockey...

He was so disliked that even his first college team traded him...**

* - might not actually be a fact, but it's got to be pretty close.
** - also might not actually be true.

Nothing personal towards the picker, it's the pick that I hate so so much. Does anyone actually like Jason Blake? His mother's morning sickness probably didn't go away until Jason's first day at Ferris State...
This was all very funny!

Blake’s one of those guys who makes you go “yeah, but….”

He was really fast. Yeah, but, he couldn’t turn.
He was gritty. Yeah, but he was physically ineffective.
He has one of the best offensive peaks of all wingers left. Yeah, but, it was always with a better center.

But, he’s a legitimate 3-position forward and has elite level agitation ability, so with everything considered I think he makes a fine 4th liner here. You don’t want three Jason Blakes, but put him next to a big guy who can fight, and/or a guy who will get him the puck, and he’ll do alright.

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Old
11-19-2012, 06:23 PM
  #606
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I too hate him dearly... especially as a leafs fan, But he is not a terrible hockey player.
I like when guys can put aside that they don't like a player and just select him for how good they are. I'm not a big Poti fan, and I'm definitely not a Khristich fan. And last draft, there was Miro Satan. And in the ATD before that, Pierre Turgeon... I could go on and on...

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11-19-2012, 10:02 PM
  #607
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The Macon Whoopee select Pekka Rinne, G


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11-19-2012, 10:24 PM
  #608
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The Macon Whoopee also select Joni Pitkanen, D


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11-19-2012, 10:40 PM
  #609
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Pitkanen is an 8 year vet with over 500 games, but Rinne has played 250 games in 4 years. I have no problem with the Pekka pick, but I'll be interested to see what others have to say.

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11-20-2012, 12:23 AM
  #610
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Pitkanen is an 8 year vet with over 500 games, but Rinne has played 250 games in 4 years. I have no problem with the Pekka pick, but I'll be interested to see what others have to say.
He's the reason 70s and I could never agree on a goalie. Rinne's 4 years are probably better than any other goalie outside Martin and Cechmanek.

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11-20-2012, 06:26 AM
  #611
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He's the reason 70s and I could never agree on a goalie. Rinne's 4 years are probably better than any other goalie outside Martin and Cechmanek.
Rinne is better than Chechmanek and I don't care how many vote Roman got for Vezina or ASTs.

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11-20-2012, 06:57 AM
  #612
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Who's up? I find it's not very easy to keep track especially with all the skipped picks lol

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11-20-2012, 09:19 AM
  #613
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211 seventieslord & Dreakmur - Regina Pat Canadians - Bob Kelly, LW
212 Hedberg - Fort Saskatchewan Traders - Niklas Backstrom, G
213 jkrx & Hobnobs - Sheffield Steelers - Jon Casey, G
214 tarheelhockey - Macon Whoopee - Pekka Rinne, G
215 BudsBuster - Birmingham Barracudas - Igor Kravchuk, D
216 Mike Farkas - Buffalo Mugwumps - Nelson Emerson, RW/C

217 Mike Farkas - Buffalo Mugwumps - Gord Murphy, D
218 BudsBuster - Birmingham Barracudas - Jason Blake, F
219 tarheelhockey - Macon Whoopee - Joni Pitkanen, D
220 jkrx & Hobnobs - Sheffield Steelers - SKIPPED at 3:24 AM
221 Hedberg - Fort Saskatchewan Traders - SKIPPED at 7:24 AM
222 seventieslord & Dreakmur - Regina Pat Canadians - OTC until 11:24 AM
223 tony d - St. John's Monsters -
224 Bring Back Scuderi - Pittsburgh Professionals -
225 chaosrevolver - Belleville Bulls -
226 Velociraptor - Utah Grizzlies -
227 Johnny Engine - St. John's Ice Caps -
228 BillyShoe1721 - EHC Eisbären Berlin -

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11-20-2012, 09:24 AM
  #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Rinne is better than Chechmanek and I don't care how many vote Roman got for Vezina or ASTs.
Cechmanek's Euro career adds a lot to his value.

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11-20-2012, 09:57 AM
  #615
seventieslord
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He's the reason 70s and I could never agree on a goalie. Rinne's 4 years are probably better than any other goalie outside Martin and Cechmanek.
as long as we pretend coaching and team have no impact on save percentage... but in recent years, it appears that they really do.

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11-20-2012, 09:59 AM
  #616
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Ive been having a similar arguement with 70s on this for a while now.

I believe Rinne right now is Close to the best goalie in this draft however lacks the GP.

But another couple years of 35-40 wins and a vezina finally and he is probly a ATDee.

But remember Rinne has always had elite defense in front of him. Roman.... Not so much. Im interested to see how well he does with out Suter there.

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11-20-2012, 10:09 AM
  #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Rinne is better than Chechmanek and I don't care how many vote Roman got for Vezina or ASTs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
as long as we pretend coaching and team have no impact on save percentage... but in recent years, it appears that they really do.
Yes. And yes.

I know the numbers say otherwise (which is why I generally dislike them), but Cechmanek was one of the worst goalies I've ever seen play in the NHL.

Selfish note: I was hoping Rinne would be my starter in the AA draft. I also thought by that time he would have the requisite number of games to be picked. I was under the impression you needed 300, but I guess that's just a loose guideline...? For the record, I'm not at all protesting the pick or anything like it. I'm a huge fan of it actually. He is one of the best goalies here and provided we actually have a season some time soon, this is the last time he gets picked this low.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:49 AM
  #618
BudsBuster
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Yes. And yes.

I know the numbers say otherwise (which is why I generally dislike them), but Cechmanek was one of the worst goalies I've ever seen play in the NHL.
Agreed he was the ugliest and probly the most akward I've ever seen.


Last edited by seventieslord: 11-20-2012 at 11:21 AM. Reason: fixed your quote for you
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11-20-2012, 10:56 AM
  #619
Mike Farkas
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http://sportsargumentwiki.com/index....oman_Cechmanek

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11-20-2012, 11:32 AM
  #620
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Quote:
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Cechmanek's Euro career adds a lot to his value.
Even in europe he was known for letting in soft goals. He is so inconsistent that I would trust the 2002 olympic tournament Salo over him.

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11-20-2012, 11:41 AM
  #621
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The Sheffield Steelers picks a player who tarnished his legacy in his last few seasons in the NHL but were still a good tough role player for good teams:

Chris Simon, LW


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11-20-2012, 11:42 AM
  #622
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Ill make my picks up tonight.

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11-20-2012, 01:18 PM
  #623
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
...221 Hedberg - Fort Saskatchewan Traders - SKIPPED at 7:24 AM
222 seventieslord & Dreakmur - Regina Pat Canadians - OTC until 11:24 AM
223 tony d - St. John's Monsters -...
It would be nice to see one of these guys make a pick now. Except for jkrx's LW Chris Simon pick 2 posts up, no one has picked today and some might be traveling for Thanksgiving tomorrow.

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11-20-2012, 01:43 PM
  #624
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The Monsters select backup goalie Ken Wregget



Though Wregget will be my backup he has served admirably in starting roles in the past i.e. helping Pittsburgh to their Cup run in 1992.

Next has been pmed.

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11-20-2012, 02:02 PM
  #625
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Coach, Frank Boucher


Managed to win one Stanley Cup coaching before Dave Kerr retired and the Rangers were ravaged by the war.

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